The new 2014 files are from now available on the conifertreasury.org portal. The American 3.0 is in the Conifering site. Zsolt

The plant fotographied at Etzelstorfer nursey named Pinus nigra "Birte" are very doubtfull. The true "Birte" are a small globose plant. Clement

Nate, the trialing can take a long time I was "trialing" the following engelmanns more than 20 years, but was only waiting, weather they will be usual blue ones. They don't want it... Picea pungens ÂGolyó with the meaning ÂBall Published 2010 Mesterházy in Conifer Treasury of Hungary 1.0 Breeder/Found 2009 Mesterházy Zsolt HUN of Den Ouden seed Introduced 1984 Mesterházy Pinetum, Erdõtarcsa HUN, 2011 Tóth Gyula Nursery Gödöllõ, HUN Description A natural blue dwarf globe of seed of the Engelmann spruce. Photo documentation Photo author me Photo author me A graft of the previous mother plant named by Orlóci, László as ÂLabdaÂ, which means also ÂBall Photo author me Picea engelmannii ÂNefertiti Published 2010 Mesterházy in Conifer Treasury of Hungary 1.0 Breeder/Found 2009 Mesterházy Zsolt HUN of Den Ouden seed Introduced 1984 Mesterházy Pinetum, Erdõtarcsa HUN, 2011 Tóth Gyula Nursery Gödöllõ, HUN Description A dwarf blue pyramid for Queen Nefertiti, 1 m in 25 years. Photo documentation Photo author me Picea engelmannii ÂVízcsepp as ÂWater Drop Published 2010 Mesterházy in Conifer Treasury of Hungary 1.0 Breeder/Found 2009 Mesterházy Zsolt HUN of Den Ouden seed Introduced 1984 Mesterházy Pinetum, Erdõtarcsa HUN, 2011 Tóth Gyula Nursery Gödöllõ, HUN Description Blue dwarf waterdrop with light purple colour, 1 m in 25 years. Photo documentation Photo author me I guess, seedling's trialing could keep a long time from the seedbed. Who has no 20-30 years to wait, could select 'ready' plants. You are lucky with your engelmann, it's ready after her age about 30-40 years. Sometimes its much better to find a 'ready' WB too, this needs no 20 years in the waiting room. Zsolt

Resin, Some sources about Cedrus libani from Turkey Reforestation… http://ressources.ciheam.org/om/pdf/a75/00800313.pdf Ibrahim Atalay http://www.jeb.co.in/journal_issues/201001_jan10/paper_07.pdf Ibrahim Atalay http://www.uni-graz.ac.at/geowww/hmrsc/pdfs/hmrsc7/atalay29-38.pdf The turkish sources never mention the plant name Cedrus libani stenocoma. Just Cedrus libani. They should have use the „Turkish cedar” terminology, but they do not use it. If a turkish scientist knows only Cedrus libani, I’m ready to accept it as he is at home in his country. Generally I give much more credit in my conifer books to chinese scientists in describing their own flora (Sylva Sinica), as for russians in their country (Komarov, Czerepanov) like any others. Resin, I fully respect the british role in discovering in world’s botany, but since a time as the world is no more a british dominium, we have to accept the local science’s point of views. Sagalassos II The physical environment of Sagalassos http://books.google.com/books/p/leuven_university_press?id=L_41KIX2pVoC&printsec=frontcover&hl=nl#v=onepage&q&f=false The University Leuven followed archaeologic excavations in Sagalassos, which has a physical environment description. Belgian scientists were going on to give a complete picture about the excavating site, even deep climatic datas with. Here we can read, that the years average temperature in Sagalassos is 9,9 Celsius degree. This is the same as me in Hungary, but the Sagalassos environment is totally different. The coldest month is January with av. -5,8 with repeatedly coming -30 C. They have there 4 months dry and cold, and inside 80 days with dry sun. These are very hard circumstances with selecting power. The biggest problem is of these cedars the beeing without water. Maybe there is an av. yearly rainfall 600-1200 mm, the plants get water only once a year at snow melting! Summer is hot and dry, snow is even very much in winters, but the cedars there get water in a short month. Last, but not least about wind. I guess alaskan scientists know well, that a -20 C with 60 km/h wind works like a silent -40C. The USDA zones are used at us too, but not perfect. Cant make differece in frost resisting, climate resistence or winter resistence, which are very different things. My point of view with the high selected lebanon cedars, that if we carry them to a little or more better circumstances, they will not only survive, but they have very good chance to grow well in z5, as they do it. The new selecting program of HTJ is based on such like datas, and till now he brought out there 20 new cultivars ��" green, silvery or blue, also differents in habit, form etc. as Cedrus libanis are all different and variable inside the species. These plants are selected for dry continental circumstances in Eastern Europe and the Rockies in the States even up to Canada. The semidesert conifering will bring hopefully new achievements. Having an example of Cupressus. The semidesert cypresses from the US are very good selection matters to the continental Europe or even in Turkey. The last winter in Hungary was really hard with long -25-28 C frosts. The SW US originated cypresses in the very dry Arizonica Arboretum had no damage. The same cultivars in urban areas got heavy problems, many died or frosted up to 2-3 meters. I realized, that the continental cypresses have a big enemy: the water. The British Isles or Holland is not quite good for the continental cypresses: no heat, not enough sun and too much rain. If you want to select cypresses to the wet european areas, you should choose the himalayan or formosan specieses, which tolerate cold, sun and too much water. HTJ has some of them too after the world conifer discoveries of Debreczy and Racz in the last 30 years. Zsolt Notes Sagalassos II: report on the third excavation campaign of 1992 By Marc Waelkens, J.P. Page 231 and further Ibrahim Atalay, 1987 General Ecological Properties of Natural Occurence Areas of Cedar / Cedrus libani A. Rich./ Forest and Regioning of Seed Transfer of Cedar in Turkey Orman Genel Müdürlügü Yayini. Yayin No. 663 Ankara M. Boydak, Reforestation of Lebanon Cedar /Cedrus libani A. Rich./ in Bare Karstic Lands by Broadcast Seeding in Turkey Page 35 Zsolt