That thought had entered my mind also. I'm going to try it with a couple of cuttings that I have in pots :>)

I put some cuttings in the plastic bag on the top of the cable box. Later I felt it warm to my hand. It must be high 90s. I removed them from the top of the cable box worrying about mold. I don't know I wish some one who knows can tell us what is the right thing. I read somewhere that cutting will root quick at 75-80 degrees. Feeling warm to the hand must be higher than that considering my normal temperature ia 96.9. I am not an expert I don't know but like to know.

In my view, using a heat mat accelerates both rooting and rotting/mold, and more so if the environment is more humid and when the cuttings are already prone to mold because of its health.
If you are not in a rush for rooting then using the room temperature is a bit slow but reduces rot and mold formation.
If you cuttings from your own tree then go ahead and accelerate with temperature and humidity and then throw out the cuttings that succumbed to rot and mold and use the one that rooted and leaf'd. However, if I have a few precious cuttings I will go with room ambient and let it take a few extra weeks in safety from rot and mold. Slow rooting will not stop rot/mold in 100% of the cases but will help a lot in avoiding mold.
I had started with heat mat but gave up on it for the above reasons.

I agree with Ottawan 100%. I have used the baggie method on top of my cable box also and rooting was greatly accelerated, but so was mold. However, a difficult variety to root (for me) such as sicilian black was the only way I could root it. But you have to do too much work in my opinion.

I have done both with good results the jury is still out as to benefits. I do use a thermostat on my heat mat to maintain constant temp.

Northeastnebie
What degree do you set the thermostat? My room Temperature is about 66-68 because that what I set the house heat to. But the rooting is so slow. I have too bags one with slightly wet napkins and one with slightly Sphagnum Mos. I used Sphagnum Mos because I used it in summer to air-layer a branch on a Plum tree and worked great. From my experience Sphagnum Mos is a wonderful rooting medium But never used it to root Figs.

I don't like rooting figs in bag. I do using a heating mat rooting fig cuttings in a pot with great results.
I set the heating mat to 75�-80�, with ambient temperatures around 60�. I keep the humidity a bit high and they all root.

Bass

I use a heat source for all my cuttings. Heat itself does not cause mold. Control excessive water retention in the growing medium and allow air circulation around your cuttings and you will greatly reduce or eliminate mold/rot. I used to have a problem with mold. Exposed my cuttings to air (only close the lid overnight)and changed my rooting medium to Miracle Grow potting mix with 8 quarts of Perlite blended into each cubic foot. Water the cuttings initially and do not need to water again until I transfer to 12 oz cups. I usually get roots showing in 2 weeks and transfer after another 2 weeks. I have also started using liquid and powder rooting hormones and have noticed significant increases in rooting speed/volume. Some ppl warn about mold as a result of hormone use, but I think that was before they had figured out how to control mold even without using hormones. Anyway, that is MY experience. Good luck, Christy!

I don't like rooting cuttings in a bag. I tried it and the results did not work for me at all. I do use a large warm heat mat to start my cuttings. I can get 2 large plastic bins on one heat mat. The bins do not sit directly on top of the mat. My mat has a metal brace about an inch above it. I have tremendous success. I tested the temperature of my cutting this year using a thermostat probe and my mat will only heat to 72 degrees in a 68 degree room. And of course high humiditiy is a must too.

Dennis

Ideal conditions vary by species, but best rooting results (highest % of strikes and fastest rooting) are most commonly found when soil temperatures are at 65-75* with air temperatures about 10* south of that and humidity in the 80-90% range with good air flow. If I had to pick ideal conditions, I would say 55-65% air temps with the cuttings on a propagation mat, which (w/o a thermostat) will raise soil temps about 10* above ambient temps.

You can increase your rooting success by using a medium that is coarse enough in texture that NO water perches in the medium. If using a heavy, water-retentive potting soil, try to make sure the container/soil is deep enough that perched water never contacts the basal end of the cutting. The water film inhibits O2 movement in and out of the cutting and promotes rot. Wicks can also be employed to remove excess water from mediums too heavy to be ideal.

Al

Thank you so much for all of the info!

So, what I am getting is that you can use it, but you have to be careful that the temps do not get too high. It sounds like a heat mat would probably work better with cuttings in cups more so than cuttings in baggies.

I also think the suggestion of putting the heat mat under the plastic bin instead of directly under the cups themselves sounds like a great idea!

Al, what would you consider a good potting medium? Last year, I experimented with some coarse vermiculite my friend sent me. However, I cannot find the coarse anymore, and any other vermiculite is too wet for me.

This year, In the small, first stage cups,I have cuttings in straight perilite and some in sphagnum moss for the first time. When I move them up to a pot, I use the MIracle Grow mix and add extra perilite to it.

I have used wicks before when starting African Violet leaves for my mother-in-law. However, that was to draw in water, not to remove it. What would you use as a wick?

Thanks again everyone for all of the info and suggestions!
Christy

"So, what I am getting is that you can use it, but you have to be careful that the temps do not get too high. It sounds like a heat mat would probably work better with cuttings in cups more so than cuttings in baggies."

That's right. If ambient temps are above 70*, a heat mat won't be of much use (remember that soil temps will usually be several degrees lower than ambient temps due to evaporative cooling). It does work best for cuttings in containers other than baggies. I initially posted the baggie method to the forum many years ago as an alternate way to root, for people who were struggling with cuttings in cups & containers, which was mainly due to the fact they were using inappropriately water-retentive (potting soil) media. It's an ok method .....

"Al, what would you consider a good potting medium? Last year, I experimented with some coarse vermiculite my friend sent me. However, I cannot find the coarse anymore, and any other vermiculite is too wet for me."

I don't like vermiculite for cuttings because it loses it's loft & breaks down in ..... oh ..... about 10 minutes.☺ It's hard to beat coarse perlite that's been screened through a std size kitchen strainer or insect screen & rinsed. Other good options are screened Turface or screened DE. The DE can be found at several chain auto parts stores. If you're interested in that, I'll look up what folks have been using. Basically, you want the particles large enough (BB-size or larger) so there is no soggy layer of medium at the bottom of your cup or container.

You talked about using MG soil + perlite. When you try to amend a potting soil with perlite or even pine bark, it doesn't work well until the perlite or bark are the largest fraction of the soil. Here is something I wrote that illustrates why straight potting soil is not the best choice for either cuttings or for growing on:

Obviously, I think the grower's soil choice when establishing a planting for the long term is the most important decision he/she will make. There is no question that the roots are the heart of the plant, and plant vitality is inextricably linked in a hard lock-up with root vitality. In order to get the best from your plants, you absolutely must have happy roots.
If you start with a water-retentive medium, you cannot improve it's aeration or drainage characteristics by adding larger particulates. Sand, perlite, Turface, calcined DE ...... none of them will work. To visualize why sand and perlite can't change drainage/aeration, think of how well a pot full of BBs would drain (perlite), then think of how poorly a pot full of pudding would drain (bagged soil). Even mixing the pudding and perlite/BBs together 1:1 in a third pot yields a mix that retains the drainage characteristics and PWT height of the pudding. It's only after the perlite become the largest fraction of the mix (60-75%) that drainage & PWT height begins to improve. At that point, you're growing in perlite amended with a little potting soil.

You cannot add coarse material to fine material and improve drainage or the ht of the PWT. Use the same example as above & replace the pudding with play sand or peat moss - same results. The benefit in adding perlite to heavy soils doesn't come from the fact that they drain better. The fine peat or pudding particles simply 'fill in' around the perlite, so drainage & the ht of the PWT remains the same. All perlite does in heavy soils is occupy space that would otherwise be full of water. Perlite simply reduces the amount of water a soil is capable of holding because it is not internally porous. IOW - all it does is take up space.

If you want to profit from a soil that offers superior drainage and aeration, you need to build it into the soil from the start, by ensuring that the soil is primarily comprised of particles much larger than those in peat/compost/coir, which is why the recipes I suggest as starting points all direct readers to START with the foremost fraction of the soil being large particles, to ensure excellent aeration. From there, if you choose, you can add an appropriate volume of finer particles to increase water retention. You do not have that option with a soil that is already extremely water-retentive right out of the bag.

I fully understand that many are happy with the results they get when using commercially prepared soils, and I'm not trying to get anyone to change anything. My intent is to make sure that those who are having trouble with issues related to soil, understand why the issues occur, that there are options, and what they are.color>

If you want to talk more about soils, we can do that - your thread. ;o)

I use strands of 100% rayon from mopheads you can buy at Ace Hdwe or Wally World. Here is a pot that I've prepared to receive a tree I was repotting. The strand goes through the hole in the screen & dangles 2-3" below the pot bottom. The wick 'fools' the water in the pot into 'thinking' the pot is deeper than it is. The water moves down the wick 'looking' for what it 'thinks' is the bottom of the pot and gets pushed off the end of the wick by the other water migrating down the wick behind it. It's a very effective tool for draining excess water from heavy soils.
{{gwi:4260}}

That should give you something to think about for a while. ;o) Let me know if you think there is anything else I might be able to help you with.

Al

Hi Al!

What is that little piece of screening made of and where does one get something like that? It looks like the plastic screening that people use for needlework. What is that heavier bar-looking thing that is in the center of the screen?

Thanks,

Viv

@ Tapla,

Referring to your passage "You talked about using MG soil + perlite. When you try to amend a potting soil with perlite or even pine bark, it doesn't work well until the perlite or bark are the largest fraction of the soil. Here is something I wrote that illustrates why straight potting soil is not the best choice for either cuttings or for growing on:". Al, I think you are a smart man with a lot to share. From your bio, you seem to have done a lot of research into growing mediums. So how is it that you do not know the difference between potting mix and potting soil? Huge difference. I bet the folks at Miracle Grow know a little something about growing media too. Also, what you say about the uselessness of using soil amendments in volumes less than the total volume to be improved flies in the face of gardeners' experiences around the world. Even adding a 55 gal barrel of sand to a 8' x 8' square of heavy clay soil (which is what I have) can significantly change the texture and drainage quality of that soil (as I have done). I agree with you that there are many ways to grow figs successfully. So why is it that you think it's okay to dismiss the experiences of others in order to make your own theories/preferences/biases sound like the only way a smart person would do it (as you allude to from your first paragraph)? Just give Christy your personal experiences/preferences, without dismissing those of other respodents, and let her make up her own mind. 'Nuff said.

Viv - it IS a piece of 'plastic canvas' you can buy at hobby stores for about $1 for a 9x12 sheet. Want me to mail you some? ;o)

the 'bar looking thing' is a piece of aluminum wire I use for wiring bonsai trees (you can use thin copper). It is like a pin-stitch staple. It is in a 'U' shape with the bottom of the 'U' being as wide as the hole & the legs about an inch long. The 'U' gets pushed through the mesh & then gets pushed through the hole so the wire is hanging straight down & the mesh is tight against the pot bottom. The wire is then bent toward the outside of the pot and holds the mesh and wick securely in place.

Igo- First - I wasn't addressing you or your post. I had to actually scroll upthread to see what had you so rankled. Everything I said is solidly rooted in physics and soil science. As far as there being a difference between a soil and a potting mix ...... the terms are used interchangeably. Technically, a soil is anything a plant grows in. Since your objection is based on semantics, I'd rather be helping someone than arguing the meaning of a word - especially since my meaning is perfectly clear. You can understand that.

BTW - we're not talking about your garden, we're talking about how water behaves within the confines of a rigid container, which is dramatically different than how it behaves in the earth. On a scale of 1-10, with 1 being growing in the gardens & beds, and 10 being full hydroponics, container culture rates about a 7 or 8, and has it's own set of physical influences that determines the soil hydrology.

I'm, not dismissing anything. I realize that millions of growers will continue to grow in Miracle-Gro and similar because it's convenient and/or they are unaware there are far better alternatives. That they are a majority has no bearing on the wisdom of the decision. The people that are here are here to learn how to do things better. I can support everything I said from a scientific perspective, and I actually get paid to explain these things and teach people how to very quickly improve their effort:reward quotient by making a few simple adjustments to what they have always taken for granted as 'the' way to grow in containers.

Sorry if you don't agree, but if you'd like to start a thread explaining why MG or other potting soils are a superior choice for starting cuttings OR growing on, I promise I'll join you there to air my perspective. The fact is, and I'm looking at things from the perspective of o/a plant and root health/vitality/growth rates - not grower convenience, soils that support significant volumes of perched water in containers cannot offer the same opportunity for plants to grow to their genetic potential within the limits of other potentially limiting factors as highly aerated soils that hold little or no perched water can. Only a little reasoning or one quick look at Liebig's Law of the Minimum is all that's needed to see that very clearly.

Al

Excellent topic. I have been thinking about the heat mat. I have been using 2 methods to initiate rooting --- room temp. from an apartment boiler room and in the house, I use my aquarium with a heating element. Both have done well. I am much encouraged about using the heat mat after potting into 32oz cup.

HI everyone!

Thanks for answering my questions! I appreciate EVERYONE's help and will experiment with everyone's ideas!

Igo4fish, I forgot to add to my last post that I found your comments interesting about rooting hormone. All thought I have never tried it with my fig cuttings since I previously heard it does not work well with figs, it is very interesting to see that you have success with it, so I will do some experimenting with some of my fig cuttings since you have had success with it. So thank you for the idea.

Since we are talking a bit about medium, is it ok to continue to talk about it here on this thread, or should I start a new one?

Something I forgot to mention, last year, I also started to pot my mature fig cuttings into a potting mix called Pro-Mix. It is a pricey mix, but has certain natural additives to prevent disease and fungus. It is a really good mix for container planting with my vegetable plants. But it did seem to be too wet for my figs. I lost my Lyndhurst White I had in this soil. Of course, it had to be one of the figs I was looking most foward to trying that year, and of now I have not been able to find the variety available again every since.

AS for the general Miracle Grow potting mix, I have had success with it for several different plants and trees.

However, I do have to say that I did have trouble with the Miracle Grow soil mix they sell specifically for Citrus and Palms. I have several varieties of citrus. Since I live in NJ, all of my citrus have to be in containers.

I bought the MG Citrus mix thinking it would be the best I could get since it was specifically made for citrus. However, it seemed to hold in too much moisture. After doing some research along with the Citrus forum here on GW, I found out that in the citrus community, the Miracle Grow Citrus mix is one of the worst mixtures to use with citrus! I was so surpised!

I eventually learned to use a soil-less mix containing a 5:1:1 ratio of bark, coarse vermiculite, and peat, along with a tablespoon of lime for every gallon of mix. This was a very coarse, chunky mix, but it really works with the citrus. It was made to drain well and to hold air pockets within the soil for the roots to breathe.

Al, since you commented on how a mix of mostly large/coarse materials is a very good mix for figs, do you think that maybe this citrus soil recipe would work well for the figs also? Cutting cups wise and/or larger containers? Just curious.

I should look into turface also. I have seen many comment on this but never have seen it anywhere.

Thank you again Al for the very extensive post and picture. The wick situation sounds very interesting. I noticed you have a clay pot there. Do you usually always use a clay pot for your young trees?

Thanks again for everyone's imput. I look foward to your advice! Christy

Christy - you'll find that the 5:1:1 mix you're using was one that I introduced to the GW forums way back in '04 or '05. See this thread , which has almost 1,800 posts to it and has been active since I posted it back in 04/05. Most people think that perlite improves drainage, but it really does little if anything for drainage unless it's a significant fraction of the soil. What it DOES, is take up space that otherwise would have been occupied by water. Drainage characteristics and the ht of the PWT essentially remain the same after amending with perlite. That it takes up space that water can't, it reduces water retention. It's better though to reduce water retention by increasing particle size, which not only reduces the ht of the PWT, but increases aeration as well. THAT is why so many people from GW, Dave's, and several other forum sites are so pleased with the results they get from the 5:1:1 mix and the gritty mix.

I would suggest that you swap the vermiculite for perlite if you're using a bark-based mix. Vermiculite breaks down and compresses very easily/quickly, and ends up contributing to the water retention and reducing aeration.

Here, you'll see the bark I use in the two soil types I often suggest
{{gwi:2389}}
The bark at 3,6, and 9, are all suitable for either the gritty mix or the 5:1:1 mix, but they should be screened for the gritty mix. In the middle is what the 5:1:1 mix looks like, dry. At the top is the fir bark that comes pre-screened, and is what I use in the gritty mix, which it excellent for starting cuttings.

Here is a pic of the gritty mix, which is one step up from the 5:1:1 mix. It is designed to hold good amounts of water but no perched water. It's highly aerated and provides as perfect an environment for long term healthy roots as I've been able to build, and I've been experimenting and teaching about soils for about 20 years.
{{gwi:1295}}

I prefer clay pots or pots with gas-permeable sides whenever possible. They are much healthier because they allow passage of water vapor that cools roots, and they allow escape of unwanted soil gasses like methane, sulfurous gasses and CO2. This is especially important if you're using heavy from-the-bag peat-based soils, but sometimes the size of the plant material makes them impractical.

Questions?

Al

You know what Al, when I wrote down the ingredients for the 5:1:1 mix, I did mean Perilite, I do not know why I wrote vermiculite. So sorry for the mistake! The mix I do use is coarse perilite, I just typed the wrong word! LOL!

Wow, I knew the mix was from an "Al". I had an inkling to ask if it was you! LOL!

Right now, the mix my citrus is in looks like the mixture in the middle of the first pic with maybe some bark pieces being slightly bigger. I know about the gritty mix, but there was some part of that mix that was not readily available to me at the time. If I look up the recipe, I will let you know what it was exactly I could not find easily. Otherwise, I would of tried the gritty mix also. I just cannot remember off-hand what it was.

Yes, my bark is fir bark. However, I have always had a question about this, that was never really answered on the citrus forum that maybe you could answer for me, Al.

There is a mix for sale, that is specified for Orchids. It is made of mostly large fir bark, with some coarse perilite and charcoal added to the mix. The perilite and charcoal seems to be similar to the 5:1:1 ratios.
I have experimented, and found that this mix has worked very well for my citrus also, I just use this mix and add some peat and a little lime to it. Would you find a small amount of charcoal included in this mix to be ok for a mix for figs or citrus? I just do not remember what exactly that the charcoal does for the soil. Does it clean out impurities like charcoal would in a filter?

Thanks again Al for all of your time! Christy

Hi Al,

Thanks for the info on how you do that u-shaped wire for holding in the plastic canvas in the bottom of the pot.

I don't recall your having told me about using the canvas when I was having so much trouble with my little trees last season before I learned so much on the forums. (Al is the reason my six little trees didn't die and I will apprecieate him forever for the time he took with me until I got the trees going.) :))))))))))))))

Anyway, that's a neat idea to fix the canvas over the hole. I use plastic pots here because the sun is so strong that I dare not use a clay pot besides, they're so expensive and heavy for the larger ones. I go with white pots to reflect the sun, as well and most of those pots have several holes in the bottoms, so I just put the soil in and use a screwdriver to push the wick up into the pot afterwards. Which brings another question to me... How far up into the pot should the wick go? I might be shoving it up too far.

Christy,

I made the mistake of using the MG Moisture Control potting soil and you talk about perched water!!! When I removed the fig trees from that, it smelled like stagnant water in the bottom of the pot and the soil was soaking wet. I will never use that stuff again down here. I won't even use MG regular potting mix/soil for the baby trees because it all comes with fertilizer in it.

I started using Fafard potting mixes and they don't have any fertilizers in them, so I can use that for babies as well as larger trees. It drains very well, but seems to hold enough moisture that I only need to water the trees once a day in the summer's brutal heat here.

I've used the regular MG with a few older trees, to fill in the pots when I brought new trees home and they needed larger pots and they've done all right with it.

I'd like to attest to how very strong fig trees tend to be, at least the ones I bought last year. Five of the six were repotted FOUR times and one, THREE times and that was in the heat and they struggled through. When I finally put the wicks into the pots and used the Fafard mix, they sat for several days, then took off like crazy. Al stuck with me until they took hold. I'm so thankful for that. Al didn't just tell me what to do--He told my why to do it and told me why I was drowning my trees and he rejoiced with me when the trees took hold and began to thrive. He wants to see people be successful with their plants.

The trees themselves are awesomely vigorous and strong to have gone through all I put them through and still end up thriving. They are a Brown Turkey, TX Everbearing (Which appear to be exactly the same in every way.), Improved Celeste, LSU Purple, Hunt and Smith. The Smith tree was unbelievably vigorous and went from a tiny stick with roots to shooting toward the stars and had to be headed back because it outgrew its little pot. I was afraid to try and repot it again after the first four repots.

noss

Hey, Christy - When I saw the ratio of the ingredients you were using, it crossed my mind that you might have said 'vermiculite' when you really meant 'perlite'. The perlite is a better choice for the 5:1:1. ..... oh, and I'm the 'Al'. ;o)

I'm guessing it was the grit that wasn't to easy to find in NJ. In a pinch, you can sub coarse (screened) perlite for the grit fraction of the soil, so you might want to keep that in the back of your mind if you can't find the grit ...... and you want to switch to a grittier mixture, of course.

You can't argue with success, but when it comes to growing, 'success' is an arbitrary term that is difficult to quantify. This is so true because 'success' is getting plants to grow to their genetic potential, and diminished success is measured in LOST potential; both are pretty abstract concepts. W/o a basis for comparison, many over-blow their version of 'success' or make claims based on their own perception of what success is, often completely ignoring the fact there may be/are other viable and even superior options available.

The the materials in the mix you described are certainly compatible and can have a place in a quality container media if the particle size is appropriate. The physical function of the gritty mix hinges on a degree of uniformity in particle size, as well as a fairly narrow size range from just a little under 1/8" to about 3/16" for the inorganic fraction (grit/Turface) and about 1/8-1/4" for the bark - a little larger is ok if using pine instead of fir bark. For the 5:1:1 mix like you're using, optimum performance hinges on how the particles of various sizes are combined. Large bark pieces requires more peat and less perlite than products like double-grind pine bark fines. The best way to build the 5:1:1 mix is start with your bark, then add enough peat/perlite to give the water retention you need w/o creating a significant perched water table. Soils and rooting mediums that do not hold perched water are going to offer much greater potential for best growth/vitality for the long term.

As far as the charcoal goes, you might as well consider that it does the same job as perlite. Charcoal could almost be considered along with other components in the inorganic category since its properties closely resemble those of that group. A fair number of people believe that charcoal has some sort of 'magical' properties and it 'sweetens' or somehow purifies the soil, but there is really nothing to support that idea.

**************************************

Hi Viv - Thank you for being so kind with your comments. ;-) I appreciate it very much! I agree that white or light colored pots make a SIGNIFICANT difference in soil temps. A black nursery pot exposed to full sun can easily see soil temperatures rising above counterparts in white/light colored pots.

The wick only needs to be secured into the pot. It doesn't matter if it goes straight up into the soil above the drain, or just lies on the bottom of the pot. The dangling part is the part that does the work, and 2-3" below the pot is great.

That so many growers here at GW were having problems with peat-based soils like MG and its relatives is what prompted me to share my experiences with the highly aerated soils I use. It wasn't long before several took the leap & trued them - the rest is pretty much history. A very large number of people have made aeration/drainage/a reduced PWT height the primary focus insofar as how they approach their container soils. The amount of interest in these soils that is expressed due to the enthusiasm shared by those using them tells the story much better than my standing here & telling you they'll work better than peat-based soils, so I'll invite anyone who wants to learn more about them over to the container gardening forum for any help they might want/need. There's no shortage of positive encouragement there. ;o)

Some of the many Fafard soils are little different than MG and similar, but their 3L and #51 mixes are bark-based and excellent for container culture right from the bag (bale). If you want a well-aerated soil and don't want to be bothered making your own, these two blends will fill your needs nicely.

Take good care, guys! ;o)

Al

Al,

I wish I could get those Fafard soils, but I can't. The ones I was able to get last year, however, worked very well in the pots and drained very well, without draining too well.

I would love to try the gritty mix, but I don't dare do that because the sun would bake those roots to death.

Is there a possibility that we give the trees too rich a soil since I've read, in so many places, that they do well in poor, rocky soil? (Being South Louisiana, there is no rocky soil, or rocks anywhere. We have to BUY rocks if we want them, or go someplace where there are rocks and cart them back home.)

noss

Thanks again for all of your info :)

You mentioned pine bark would be better than fir if it is of a larger size. Now if I remember right, when it comes to citrus, fir bark is perferred over pine for some reason? So, is pine bark ok for figs?

I have never seen Farfad soils. I will have to keep a look out.

I have used Pro-Mix BX. However, I think it was too wet by itself, and I lost a few young fig trees last year that were in straight Pro-Mix. Although Pro-Mix works excellent in my Earthbox containers for vegetable plants.

Interesting point Noss! Maybe our soils are too good for the figs?

Not that I know, I am just assuming, Would most of the figs that grow on the coast of Italy and the Mediteranean, wouldn't that soil be part sand?
Then again, there are certain regions in Italy, like where the San Marzano tomatoes grow, that are rich in volcanic ash. Because of the ash, anything grown there is superior in growth and taste.

I once bought an additive that was called Volcanite. It was actual volcanic soil I guess? YOu would add like a Tablespoon per pot. However, I never saw it for sale again. I still have some left. Any comments on that, Al?

Just things that popped into my head here! LOL!

Now I am going to look for the materials needed for your wick idea Al! When you move to that size pot ( which I assume are still for very young trees starting) are you using your final mix, or do you still have it in some sort of transitional mix until it gets older?

Thanks again for taking the time to personally help us! Christy

PS,

I forgot to ask~

For those of you who put your cups in clear bins with a lid, do you still tent the tops of the cups with a baggie? Or because they are in a bin with the lid on, they do not need to be bagged on top?

Thanks! Christy

Viv - If you're worried about the roots cooking because the gritty mix doesn't hold enough water, you might be surprised - especially because you can adjust the water retention by increasing the amount of Turface in the mix while decreasing the amount of granite, all the while keeping the bark fraction at 1/3 or less. I'm not trying to twist your arm - just wanted to be clear about the fact the gritty mic can hold a lot of water w/o holding perched water. As far as temperatures go, the gritty mix is going to be quite a bit cooler than heavier soils because it is more porous & takes advantage of evaporative cooling. I have several friends in FL & TX that use it with excellent results. ;o)

I don't think the key to successful figs in containers lies in providing a spare (not rich) or rocky soil. The key is even moisture (damp not wet) with good drainage & no soggy parts of the container, along with a favorable pH and good nutritional supplementation program .... and sun. Beyond that, figs don't ask for much. ;o)

BC - Most fir bark comes prescreened & ends up being better suited to the gritty mix because of its lack of fine particles, which would clog up all the large pores & negate the reason for using it in the first place; that's why I like fir bark in the gritty mix. Pine bark that's screened to the right size is also fine for the gritty mix, but unscreened pine bark in the size range dust up to 1/2" works best in the 5:1:1 mix, which is very good for figs. I'd be using the 5:1:1 mix if I didn't like the gritty mix better. BTW - I would have chosen a more clamorous name for those soils, but other forum members started calling them 5:1:1 and gritty, so I just went along. ;o)

I'm sort of reading your post & posting as I go along, so if I sound a little disjointed, it's because I'm replying to you on a paragraph by paragraph basis. That some trees are found in sandy or even clay soils doesn't mean that a clayey or sandy soil is a good choice for the same plant in a container. As I mentioned to someone who took me to task upthread, containers have their own set of rules that govern how water behaves in containers - quite different than it behaves in the earth. Container soils are all about structure and the ability to retain that structure. It's also nice if they're made from materials that hold enough water, but I make a convincing case that aeration and durability should be our focus when we decide on a soil for our containerized plants. Where cuttings are concerned, the 'durability' isn't quite so important because the cuttings are soon bumped to larger pots, but aeration is a very significant issue and has considerable influence on root initiation and development/growth.

About the ash - it would contribute to the vitality of the plant only if it supplied something essential the plant was missing. We can be sure that it contributes nothing physically - nothing to the soils structure, so it's value would have to be chemical, and whatever it supplies would have to be in short supply in the soil solution. Rock dust isn't soluble, and mineralization takes a long, long time. Heck - even bone meal (an organic amendment) breaks down so slowly in containers that it is considered insoluble by commercial growers. You can put together a very effective nutritional supplementation program by reading labels & making sure that you're supplying all 12 essential elements plants take up from the soil solution, or by using a fertilizer KNOWN to have them. I use Foliage-Pro 9-3-6 because it has ALL 12 essentials in favorable NPK ratio AND in a favorable ratio to each other. This allows you to fertilize at the lowest rate possible w/o nutritional deficiencies - a decided advantage for you and your plants. If you're using a fertilizer that DOESN'T have everything, it's doubtful that the volcanic ash can be relied on to pick up the slack. It's more likely it will simply duplicate some of what's already in the soil. If you're worried that your fertilizer is short some nutrients, it's better to change fertilizers to one that supplies everything (except perhaps Ca/Mg) than to try to supplement with elements or compounds aimed at eliminating a deficiency of only 1 or 2 nutrients. That usually leads to a loss of potential in the long run. The KISS method is best when it comes to fertilizers.

I don't really have a final mix. I use the gritty mix for all my woody plants, from the smallest seeds to the largest trees (4 hand bonsai take two good men to move about), so if it's woody, it's either IN the gritty mix or about to GO IN the gritty mix. ;o)

Whew!

Al

Christy, the purpose of the bin's lid is to keep humidity in. I can't imagine anyone tenting and using a closed bin. But it is possible I guess. I find I have to open the bin for part of the day. As far as pro mix, I know certain people love it but it is the absolutely most absorbtive material I have ever used. Way way way too water retentive in my opinion. Can you achieve success with it? I am sure people do but I thought the gritty mix weighed a lot but when you water a container that has pro mix you better be jack la lane if you want to move it. It's that heavy and as far as I'm concerned not only a poor choice for rooting, but also for growing.

My opinion:
You want roots use heating Pads regardless of the rooting medium. My experience with using perlite alone, Sphagnum moss alone, a mix of perlite and sphagmum moss in merely 4 days on the heating Pad I got beautiful strong roots in all the three mediums. My only missgiving the heating pad I bought is only 20 by 48 inches. I wish it is begger. They say you can attach up to 5 heating pads together. But it cost plus shipping around $90 and I am not willing to spend the kids college money on my Fig hobby. I talked to a nursery guy who sells wholesale plants to Home Depot and he told me in the Northeast if they don't use heating pads they will be out of business. Mold and Rot is not a problem if you clean the cuttings And dip it in antifungal liquid (dipping even not necessary) and control the water in the rooting medium. Some one said on this board that too much water produces weak roots and I believe him. If the root has easy water why grow and search for water. Now I understand why my Dad who owned 300 tree fig orchard limited the irrigation to a mimimium. Even In that area we rarely had rain.

HI Guys!

I thought I would update here since all of you were so nice to take the time to share your information and suggestions with me on this thread!

Well, I have one heat mat ( only the size of a regular 72 cell seed starting Jiffy tray). After experimenting with a few different ways, I eventually took the heat mat and put it at the bottom (Inside) of a regular 68 quart sized bin. The heating pad was just a tiny bit smaller than the bottom, but seemed to be a good fit.

So, with cuttings I had more than one of, I put cuttings in perlite, and some in moss.
The other cuttings, I left in their baggie method baggies.

It has been about 3 weeks now since I have done so. To my surpise, I have had much sucess with the heating pad in the bin!

In the bin with the heating pad, I have several with full sets of leaves and roots already! Some of them could even be considered "small plants" already that is how much leaves they have gotten!

While most of the baggie method cuttings not in the bin only have some roots (if any)forming and only some green tips.

In the bin, cuttings in perilite did really good. Ones in the moss not so much.

However, you do have to open the bin every day and check to see if they are moist enough, or sometimes if they are too moist.

If you leave the top off for a period of time, I had to add water to the cups.

With leaving the top on, it kept in good humidity. But you have to let it air out every day. By doing so, it really helped to keep the mold away.

I was very surprised that I did not see more mold. The only mold I got was on a dead tip of one cutting.

I also did not have the mat on all day. I would have it on all night until about 9am. This seemed to also keep the mold away. Although you would think a constant temperature would be better than this, my cuttings did do better with half day on, half day off.

So those are my results and how it turned out for me. In no way and I pro or anything, I am just sharing what happened for me.

I will be sure to do cuttings this way again!

So in summary,

~ Heat mat on the inside of a 68 quart bin.
~ Check humidity and open bin everyday, with the lid off for a short time, otherwise lid is on at all times.
~ Keep heat mat on half the day, and off half the day
~ Perilite cups worked better than moss.

Thanks again everyone! Christy

PS, if I get the time, I will take a picture of my Sicilian Bifara cuttings, the one in the baggie, and the one I put in the bin with the heating pad so you can see the difference in growth.

I always keep a couple cuttings of each variety and do them directly in the vegetable garden...100% success last 3 years that way.

AL.... your mixes are great, but as I weigh 125 lbs, moving around 5 - 20 gal pots with lots of granite in them just isn't practical for me (30+ figs and that's not even all I would have to move). Any chance you've thought of a good gritty and lighter mix? Maybe Haydite to replace the granite?

~Chills

Obviously this post is very old but I was looking to add a heat mat underneath my various cuttings in order to assist in the rooting process. I enjoyed the comments from tapla in regards to ambient temps and heating temps. I live in the Chihuahuan Desert of far west Texas. The temps outside here are in the triple digits during the day and so the household ambient temps reach along the 70 - 75 degree range which is I think perfect while night time temps may dip to mid sixties. I'm thinking that I probably do not need a heat mat then? Most of the plants that I'm rooting from cuttings and seeds are native specimens from my property. I did enjoy thoroughly the discussion and explanation from tapla in regards to soil qualities and differences between pots and ground planting soils and their characteristics. I must say that I agree with tapla. I have been experimenting with different potting ingredients. In my years of experience with store bought commercial soils, they're very poor mixes, I've never encountered a commercial potting soil that I liked. It clumps into a brick and holds moisture way too much and for too long. After doing alot research in the forums my own experience of trying to understand the roles vermiculite and perlite and how they perform I concur with tapla. Perlite simply takes up space but if understood correctly, it serves it's purpose.

I have begun using a coir based soil that I purchased from an online company and I love it. It is almost considered an soil less medium. The ingredients listed are shredded and chopped coconut husks (coir), vermiculite, and some compost. I think the addition of 'compost' in the ingredients list may negate the effort of avoiding organic soils due to harboring bacteria almost a mute point. But I have enjoyed it so far because it does not retain large amounts of water. But so far it has been fine and has not generated any mold or fungus that I'm aware of.

Currently I'm experimenting with a variety of pots and growing mediums. Coir square pots, plastic pots and clay pots. The mediums I also am exploring is sand and the coir mix. It's strange but within the first couple of days the two coir pots developed a white mold along the top edge of the pots. It did not develop on the soil less coir mix though. I'm thinking there may be a fungicide in the coir mix. I prepared a cinnamon tonic by heating powdered cinnamon and straining into a bottle to spray on the mold since it is touted as natural fungicide...didn't do a dang thing. So I sprinkled powdered cinnamon directly on the mold and it disappeared. The plastic pots are fine except it is difficult to ascertain if the soil is wet or dry. With the coir pots you can feel the weight as well as the sides of the pot to tell if it needs moisture. The clay pots I like because I can spray the sides of the pot to prevent the soil from drying out. If the sides of the pot are dry then I mist the sides and the soil. I found that using sand as a rooting medium does not yield good results for me. So I have begun changing over to the coir soil less mix.

The advice that came with the coir soil less mix stated that the medium was well suited to rooting cuttings, seeds and seedlings etc but once the desired roots had been developed and the true leaves were established it was not advisable for a more permanent soil. Which is perfect for my needs.

My initial goal is to save my native plants by propagation so that during this drought I will have specimens to replace the ones that have perished to the drought.

If you live in the desert, why is sand not a good rooting medium for native plants? I garden on what is essentially ancient sand dunes, and have found the local 'soil' works well for local plants. But coastal sand dunes and desert soils may be quite different, which is why I ask.

I've been tempted to use coir rather than peat moss for propagating ferns (mainly platycerium and other sub-tropical native Australian ferns), but hadn't even thought about using it for plants that usually grow in sand.

You may not need a heating mat if you are growing native plants, but it can still improve your success rate for some plants. It seems a little ironic for me to be promoting the use of heat pads when I have spent part of today trying to persuade an enthusiastic but not very experienced colleague that my seeds did NOT need to be put on a heat pad in the hot house, but needed cold and fairly dry conditions to germinate. As both the heat and humidity will rise fairly steeply here within the next 4-6 weeks, I want the seeds germinated and ready to pot on before the daytime temperatures exceed 25C, and as they are already pushing 20C with 6 weeks of winter left, I don't have time to redo the seeds if this lot fails. But for most plants, a heat pad does work well for both seeds and cuttings.

I work in a botanic garden (Hunter Region Botanic Garden in Australia) and spend some time in the nursery propagating rare and endangered plants indigenous to the local area, so I applaud your effort to grow your local plants. Having gone through a 10 year drought a few years ago, I also understand the need to plan ahead.

We spend a lot of time at the botanic garden nursery trying to get the growing medium - and temperature and humidity - right for propagating various difficult plants, but a well-draining, fairly gritty mixture works for the vast majority of our plants. We've even had some success with a number of frustratingly difficult plants by using a gritty mixture and a heat pad but no misting at all, just the usual light sprinkling of water twice a day. And then some die no matter what we do. Just part of the magic of growing plants :)

A small celebration for me today. Despite predation by a rat (caught in a trap with peanut butter sandwich and relocated - botanic gardens MUST NOT exterminate native fauna) I have managed to germinate a number of Banksia grandis and Telopea oreades seeds, and if they grow that will add two more species to our listing for the botanic gardens. The Telopeas in particular - even ones that grow well not that far away - are temperamental buggers, so we aren't throwing a party yet. Many Telopea skeletons lie under the soil in the garden - or are being useful as mulch around other plants.

Back to the subject of figs (even though ours are different species) heat tends to be useful for propagating both seeds and cuttings. It doesn't seem to make problems with mould worse.

Kevin