Tapla,

Thank you for your response. When I transplanted the tree into the new container, the root+soil from the original pretty much comprised the majority of the space -- only 1.5" of topsoil was used to backfill the perimeter of the tree's root+soil that came with the original container, perhaps 4" at the very bottom (new containers's size is 16" (h) x 16" (circumstance). Do you still believe the amount of the topsoil is causing water retention?

I don't understand the consequence of "over-potting." Does that mean the container is too big or small? I don't believe the interval of watering is causing the tree to suck up too much water because when I make a 6" narrow hold down into the soil, I don't see moister from the sample.

Ok, if I removed the tree from the container and saw the roots illustrating the characteristic of being rotten, then what I should do? And when You say "remove as much soil," do you mean any sort of soil attached to the roots when the tree is taken out? Another issue would probably be the removal of the tree from the pot as this is not a small tree and the root was a foot+ long (deep) when I planted it in to this container so I am not sure how this would play out.

When you say "plant to the smaller pot and flush the remaining soil," do you mean to basically wash the root+soil? If so, that would be an insurmountable task given I live in an apartment (bathtub is my only choice). What kind of fertilizer I must use for this type of tree and time of the year? I don't have smaller container and frankly the original one was way too small to handle tree of this size. What is a "fast soil?"

Sincerely,

Tapla,

I almost forgot to add this. I've noticed more and more of the leaves are starting to displaying withered (brownish) trait at their "tips" -- not all but enough to grab your attention. Does that signify anything?

"Do you still believe the amount of the topsoil is causing water retention?" I really do, yes. Topsoil/garden soil quickly compact and hold water so tightly in containers that it will not drain. You could easily have a perched water table of 4-6" depth at the container bottom. For perched water, water movement in containers, and container soils in general, follow the embedded link. This saturated layer of soil at the container's bottom will be completely anaerobic & will promote many species of rot bacteria. Since there are no roots in this soil, it is virtually guaranteed that water will not drain until the water slowly diffuses & is used by the plant or eventually evaporates (some through the walls of terra cotta containers. I think what I just related also explains your question about over-potting, but if you're still unclear on that issue, you can ask here or on the thread linked to.

"... when You say "remove as much soil," do you mean any sort of soil attached to the roots when the tree is taken out?" Yes - remove enough soil to allow you to see that the roots are firm and white/tan. All rotten parts of the roots should be removed. If none are rotten (I'm pretty sure this is your problem, though) disregard what I said & return the plant to the pot. "Another issue would probably be the removal of the tree from the pot as this is not a small tree and the root was a foot+ long (deep) when I planted it in to this container so I am not sure how this would play out." First, determine that root rot is the issue. Granted, now is not the ideal time to repot a ficus (btw - you should include your USDA zone and state in your user info - it's very helpful to those offering advice) ;o) but you should look at repotting as a necessary emergent remedy to rotted roots - if no root rot, it's a non-issue. Ficus are very genetically vigorous, and the plant will tolerate a lot of abuse. I grow at least a dozen species as bonsai and the root work I do would be considered extremely radical by some, yet they quickly recover, hardly missing a beat.

"When you say "plant to the smaller pot and flush the remaining soil," do you mean to basically wash the root+soil?" Yes "If so, that would be an insurmountable task given I live in an apartment (bathtub is my only choice)." So do it in the tub then. ;o) The root mass will be as small as or smaller than it was before you potted up - so probably not as unmanageable as you think. The purpose of flushing the soil (flush 4-6 times after you saturate it with a volume of water approximately equal to the volume of water the container is in. The purpose of this exercise is to flush out soluble salts from fertilizer and tap water that have accumulated in the soil. These salts, when their levels get too high, prevent the plant from taking up water and the nutrients dissolved in it. This inability to absorb water can cause the plant to die of thirst in a sea of plenty. It actually causes a drought response - yellow, falling leaves. "What kind of fertilizer I must use for this type of tree and time of the year?"Easy to find, are Miracle-Gro 24-8-16 granular all-purpose fertilizer, or Miracle-Gro 12-4-8 liquid. Both are 3:1:2 ratio fertilizers and a very good choice for trees in containers. "I don't have smaller container and frankly the original one was way too small to handle tree of this size." Your tree - your call(s). I guess you're going to have to decide if you trust my judgment or not - and how far you're willing to go to nurse the tree back to good vitality again. I have several dozen perfectly healthy Ficus & lecture to bonsai and other garden-related clubs regularly about their care, if that makes any difference. "What is a "fast soil?" One that drains quickly, is durable/structurally stable, and is well aerated (see the link above).

"I've noticed more and more of the leaves are starting to displaying withered (brownish) trait at their "tips" -- not all but enough to grab your attention. Does that signify anything?" If the leaves were falling as a result of a light issue, they would prolly lighten in color & fall when they are evenly green or yellowish green. Marginal (leaf edge) and tip necrosis generally signifies a drought response caused by one or more of: a high level of salts in the soil, under-watering, or over-watering. It could also indicate a nutritional deficiency or toxicity, but it's far less likely than a drought response.

Al

Wow! That's a plethora of information to digest and I welcome that. First and for most, I plugged in my zip code and the page concluded that my zone is 7 (this was probably accurate in early 1990's, taken from data). However, when I looked around on the related sites, it appears that my location has hardiness of zone 8 (taken from 2003). Moreover, since I pretty much check the highs and lows of temp almost every day, I can with some certainty assert that the min average temp in the last 5 years has been +25/+30 F (2007).

"This saturated layer of soil at the container's bottom will be completely anaerobic & will promote many species of rot bacteria."

I think this is starting to make sense after reading your article on container soils. What else other than rot bacteria can thrive in this environment? What would be the next step if I witness to bugs crawling up and down the container/roots? My other question regarding the size of the container is, would I still encounter the same water-perching issue even if I use a fast soil or uniform-soil (to replace the top soil I have at the bottom and around the container's outer surface) due to the size of the container?

"remove enough soil to allow you to see that the roots are firm and white/tan..."

Alright, let's do this. I will remove the tree from its pot, shake off the soil and attempt to examine the root, which as you stated, if it's in good shape, should have a "firm and white/tan" look. I just wished I could get started on Sunday but my help is needed somewhere else so on Monday I'll get down to business. What if a portion of the root is rotten? do I clip them out and rinse/wash the rest? If so, how would I know what caused the rotting to occur in the first place -- other than what you just elaborated on? Would I be needing to wash the container inside and out (what soluble do I need)?

"probably not as unmanageable as you think"

The tree is quite large for indoor apartments so I am assuming it would be a Herculean task to drag it into the bathtub, lean it on somewhere and perform the baptizing ceremony... I mean flushing the soil (boy, I hope I don't clog the plumbing system).

"flush 4-6 times after you saturate it with a volume of water approximately equal to the volume of water the container is in..."

Why does it matter how much I flush the soil with respect to the supposed water volume? What if there is no water perched at the bottom of the container? Or should I be expecting any? I believe what you are suggesting is that the root shouldn't be flushed/saturated with water too much, right?

"The purpose of this exercise is to flush out soluble salts from fertilizer and tap water that have accumulated in the soil."

I do use tap water to treat the tree and I do believe it contains soluble salts but haven't used any fertilizer so far.
"This inability to absorb water can cause the plant to die of thirst in a sea of plenty. It actually causes a drought response - yellow, falling leaves"

This could well be the issue here along with the description you provided earlier on. Except that the majority of the leaves that are falling do look healthy and greenish. And as I mentioned before, when I play around with the ones still on the tree, some appear to be very loose at the base.

"how far you're willing to go to nurse the tree back to good vitality again..."

Ok, how about I fill up the container with 6" less of soil this time and plant the tree lower from the current level as you've seen in the picture? Would that somehow alleviate the volume concern?

"If the leaves were falling as a result of a light issue, they would prolly lighten in color & fall when they are evenly green or yellowish green."

For most part, when I collect the fallen leaves, I do notice such necrosis at the tip and I had assumed that's what happens when the organism is detached from its branch and suffers the lack of nutritional necessities. But now that I look closer to the ones on the tree, I do see a number of them also displaying such discoloration.

Sincerely,

tapla,

So I finally did take out the tree and flush the root. I watered the tree in the morning and attempted to take it out in the evening. You were right to some extent; although the soil attached to the root was a bit moist but when I dug down to the bottom of the container, the "top soil" had been saturated and it was visibly "muddy." You can view the pictures here.

Even though there was no water accumulation in its liquid form, the top soil I took out was much more heavier than the one I "scratched" out of the root -- a portent to its cohesiveness. The next thing I did was to gently poke around the root to extract soils from it in order to expose more of the root.

Once I notice I couldn't get through, I moved the tree into the bathtub and proceeded with flushing the root for around 5 sessions (soil extracted during flushing was made it impossible to do the whole thing in one try as I had to collect the soil before being introduce into the plumbing system). I managed to expose as much root as I could during flushing but there is so much I could do. I let the root sit in the bathtub for 12 hours to dry and have the container emptied and cleaned up.

I replanted the tree back into the container but this time used mixed potting soil (Mircale-Gro 21-7-14 with fertilizer) which does match the tree's root soil as opposed to the top soil I had before. Gradually back filled the container and spray a little bit onto the soil to make it settle. a day later, the tree hasn't shed a single leaf but I suppose after a night of binge drinking [water/flushing], I don't suppose it'll be thirsty for the next several days. Nonetheless, I keep a vigilant and monitor its progress as it's too early to make predictions. You probably were right about the drought being the main culprit -- I could see how the bottom soil was sucking all the water to itself.

I don't know where to go from here. Should I water the tree just once to see whether it seeps out from the bottom of the container? How do I make sure the new potting soil doesn't retain the needed water like the old top soil did? Did I miss any crucial point which I should have done?

Sincerely

"I don't know where to go from here. Should I water the tree just once to see whether it seeps out from the bottom of the container?" The soil should be evenly moist, but not saturated. Don't allow the plant to sit in dry soil. I don't want to discourage you, because the soil you used is much better than the topsoil, but it still looks quite heavy. I would emply an absorbent wick pushed up into the drain hole & allow it to dangle below the container. I would water copiously at least every second or third watering (every watering is better) so that plenty of wate exits the drain. These heavier waterings are when the wick is important. Also, use the wick as an indicator for the need to water, If it's wet - withhold water.

How do I make sure the new potting soil doesn't retain the needed water like the old top soil did? The wick - and careful attention to how/when you water - see previous comments.

Did I miss any crucial point which I should have done? Nothing crucial. Remember what you did was an emergency, out-of-season repot, so don't be surprised if the plant makes a big display of pouting (leaf loss). Be patient. Days are lengthening now & the plant will want to grow. It's very important to avoid over-watering. When you can (when night temps are reliably above 55*) move the plant outdoors. If you want to move it out sooner, move it back indoors when temperatures are below 55*. There is good reason for this temperature limit. It is tha approx point at which photosynthesis is inhibited & the plant draws on its energy reserves - we want to avoid that if possible. Return to normal photosynthesis lags the return to favorable temps by several days, so a brief stint in cool temps can have more impact than you might imagine.

Just be patient now. Bright shade or dappled sun (after acclimation) is best for alii.

Good luck. ;o)

Al

tapla,

Thank you for your help. You mentioned that the soil still "looks quite heavy" which perturbs me. Maybe in the pictures, the images give out an impression that the soil is "heavy" (or maybe you made the comment base on the brand of potting soil I mentioned!). This might as well be due to the fact that I pressed the upper layer to have the tree actually hold secure in its place as the soil was "loose" enough to have the tree tilt a little bit and I can still shift it around to some extend -- even though I back filled the root as much as I could with hand. The soil feels more "powdery" as before but not dusty; perhaps I am not very adequate in describing the quality of the soil but from what I've observed, it is much finely granular than the top soil I had. By the way, where can I purchase an absorbent wick for this type of work as I have never came across it?

I managed to water the tree today with the usual amount -- roughly 1/2 gallon or 120 cubic inch. The container itself is 17 inch (h) x 15 inch (diameter) ~ 13 gallon. However, I did not see any water accumulating at the bottom plate catcher nor a sign of wetness by any means. Does that mean I am not watering enough or once again the water is being absorbed by the potting soil and being denied of necessary water? I know you suggested to add water gradually in some interval see if the soil shows any sign of porousness that is indeed passing some water through but unfortunately I read your comments afterward. Should I perform that test now that I have watered the plant or does this action would further stress out the tree? By the way, when I initially watered the tree, the soil appeared to be a bit muddy but lost its miriness after a while, however, it was definitely more sludgy than before the repotting.

The tree didn't have any leaf loss the first 36 hours but the following 24 hours I saw 3 drops which is far better than 30+/day a week ago and all the losses had browned/withered tips; hopefully it'll remain at such rate and won't progressively accelerate as before. I know after repotting and taking some punishment in the last few days, the tree would surely experience some expected changes but just thought to share this information in case if it becomes of some indication. Meanwhile what other signs should I be wary of, i.e. more healthy leaf loss, wilt of leaves, etc.?

Sincerely,

It's difficult to get a feel for the tone in a post, so I'm going to say that I'm not being snotty or talking down to you. I'll talk like I'm trying to share the benefit of my experiences. ;o)

You mentioned that the soil still "looks quite heavy" which perturbs me. Maybe in the pictures, the images give out an impression that the soil is "heavy" (or maybe you made the comment base on the brand of potting soil I mentioned!).

I made the comment based on the appearance of the soil. It looks like it is made up of primarily fine organic particles with a little perlite. These soils, especially when the plant is (temporarily) over-potted can cause the same problems as the topsoil did/could have. If you read the link I provided, you understand the importance or maintaining plenty of aeration throughout the container.

By the way, where can I purchase an absorbent wick for this type of work as I have never came across it?

.... an old shoelace or a single strand from one of the synthetic (rayon) mop heads would work well.

I managed to water the tree ... however, I did not see any water accumulating at the bottom plate catcher nor a sign of wetness by any means. Does that mean I am not watering enough or once again the water is being absorbed by the potting soil and being denied of necessary water?

When you water so no water exits the drain, you are watering in 'sips', which guarantees the accumulation of salts from both fertilizer and tap water, and carries with it the perils I described above. Using a heavy soil creates a dilemma - should I water thoroughly so 10-15% of the water applied exits the drain and risk the likelihood of root rot issues, or should I water in sips and worry about accumulating salts? Using a well-aerated soil that drains well allows you to water copiously AND eliminates both horns of the dilemma.

Should I perform that test now that I have watered the plant or does this action would further stress out the tree?

I don't know what to tell you. If, in fact, the soil is as heavy as it looks, and as you describe late in the last post, it probably served no purpose to move the plant from one heavy soil to another. I KNOW that's NOT what you want to hear, but it's something I must tell you. My suggestion would be to try to find some pine bark, and mix the soil you have with 4 parts of pine bark and 1 part of perlite and repot into that soil. I use the soil you see in the center of this pic (click on thumbnail photos) for lots of plantings, and it will work very well for your Ficus:
{{gwi:7703}}
The soil I actually grow almost ALL my trees in though, looks like this:
{{gwi:4810}}

By the way, when I initially watered the tree, the soil appeared to be a bit muddy but lost its miriness after a while, however, it was definitely more sludgy than before the repotting.

I'm sorry, but it shouldn't look muddy. If it does, it means that it will be flowable and fill in the macro (larger air) pores, holding too much water, as well.

The tree didn't have any leaf loss the first 36 hours but the following 24 hours I saw 3 drops which is far better than 30+/day a week ago.

A day in the life of a tree is like an hour in the life of a human. They are slow organisms, so patience is required. Improvement wont be something you can measure in a 24 or 36 hour period - it just doesn't work that way. ;o)

It looked to me (from the pics) your tree still had reasonable vitality and would tolerate the rootwork and repotting quite well. If you get the soil/water retention issue under control, you should see a recovering and robust tree by mid-May.

Al

Hello,
I have had a similar problem with two 4 foot ficus alii trees that I bought two months ago. They have been dropping leaves continually since I bought them (they only have about 1/10th of their original leaves now). At first I thought they just needed to get acclimated to their new location but the ficus benjamina that I bought at the same time stopped dropping leaves about a month ago. I have been watering them when the soil in the upper inch or two dries out.

After I bought the trees I repotted them in bigger pots with garden soil: ( They also had white flies but the nursery that I bought them from said that shouldn't cause leaf drop.

This morning I sprayed neem oil with the hope of getting rid of the white flies and after reading this discussion I put the plants back in the pots from the nursery. From my inspection, I don't think that there is a lot of root rot. I assume that since they were growing fine in the nursery they should be fine in these pots until they are healthier and I better understand how I should repot them.

I have attached a picture showing how the leaves start to turn brown before they drop. I welcome any more suggestions! Thanks so much! I am in zone 6a.