Let's Share Information about Soil Types and Planting Methods

14 years ago

Black non-clay loamy soils are the easiest, that's for sure. Nothing special is 'required'. I really don't know how many directions this can go, but if you want to talk about anything from building big berms to keeping it simple, that would be great.

This is "loamy clay" which settles beautifully but I've learned to go two inches above the level of soil in any one-gallon container and more for larger plants. That describes perfectly what I do here. I also berm everything anywhere from a 1-gallon plant up 3-4" off the ground up to I measured 9" on a 4-5 foot (15-gal?) Pinus koraiensis where the roots were maticuosly, perfect. When I dig a hole I backfill all the smaller media pieces ranging 4-6" for the rootball to rest on and I dig/till a hole 2-3 feet wide (a little extreme, 2' should be plenty), for a one-gallon root system. Then one key thing for this soil type is to drive the space into the walls of the hole to create pockets for the roots to lead into whether by hand placement or them finding their own way to them. I like to unwind the roots and get them going in the right direction sepearting crossing root branches. Often my planting hole also has a mound in the center because I have done so much work untangling most often a mess. Then they are tucked into the crevasices looking something like a squid with it's body upright and its' tentacles branching.

This is what it looks like when tilled very wet:

Same general area after hand watering and .5" rain that same day:

{{gwi:768621}}

Same conifer shown above after the rain:

{{gwi:768623}}

This is what it looks like way down:

{{gwi:768625}}

Loamy clay: when tilled dry is a dusty consistency and when tilled wet will produce between 1" to 3-4" clumps which those larger clumps can then be ground up into 1" pieces or smaller, by hand. The top layer of my stuff always dries up very fast creating a mat or sheet a few inches down but stays very wet below for a long time. Best I can personally say.

Thanks for the effort.

Dax

Comments (12)

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
14 years ago
yellow sand... perhaps mineral sand.. left by the glaciers .... at least 20 feet deep ...

the day before.. place pot in water... and soak it all real good .... want the plant full of water, when i start fooling with the roots .... might stand in a bucket or wash basin

dig hole... doesnt have to be all that much bigger than the pot ...... perhaps 1.5 times ..... unwind or cut roots ...

make volcano of soil in middle of hole.. and jump on it.. to make sure its packed down ... so that the plant will be at proper depth.. if i dont pack it.. the fluffy sand settles and the plant ends up to deep .... insert plant.. and spread the roots around the volcano .... and refill just enough that the plant stands there ...

fill hole with water to the top [might be upwards of 5 gallons].... in the sand.. it drains within minutes ... refill 2/3 of the total... tamp in.. and refill again with water ... always maintaining proper planting depth

then back fill the rest of the way ... and flood again.. forming a shallow moat out about 2 feet from the plant.. continue the slow trickle

cover all.. including the moat with about 3 inches of mulch... dampen that...

come back in about a month.. and start checking the soil dampness with my finger ....

i have absolute perfect drainage with the sand... i could NOT kill conifers with too much water if i wanted to ... but i really believe they need to nearly dry in between through soakings ...

when the sand drys in july and august.. it is nearly impervious to water.. so the moat.. allows me to put down a few gallons of water.. that just sits there for 5 or 10 mins.. all of a sudden.. the surface tension releases.. and the water goes into the soil ..... and i can then refill the moat 3 to 5 more times.. to insure DEEP WATERING .... and then leave them alone for another month ... depending on heat and drought ...

i am really amazed how many peeps say they water them every single day .... on some mystical schedule ....

AND LET ME YELL THIS ... I ONLY PLANT AT PROPER PLANTING TIMES FOR MY ZONE !!!!!!!

ken
sluice
14 years ago
Sticky wet clay.

Upon digging the clay becomes irreversibly bonded to the shovel in large heavy clumps. The clumps must then be forcibly scraped off the shovel. Utmost patience then required to break into smaller chunks, perhaps to the size of marbles. Combine smaller chunks with compost. Mixing is not an option; the clay clumps don't crumble and therefore don't mix. Avoid direct contact if possible, because the clay withdraws all moisture from skin. Do not allow clay to become dry (unless making pottery).
Related Discussions
Question about finishing method options for Custom Cabinets
Q
Comments (6)
Hi Vicky, I'm sure there are others on this website with more knowledge than I have, but I thought I'd give you my two cents. We are remodeling our kitchen, with custom cabinets that are a mix of stain and painted (off-white). I did a lot of research, and was very impressed with the quality and durability of manufactured cabinet finishes. I think Wood-Mode/Brookhaven painted finishes are considered hard to beat. After visiting completed projects from a local custom cabinetmaker, we hired him to make our cabinets. Our guy sends the completed cabinets to a finisher, who sprays, glazes, etc... and uses conversion varnish. I thought the conversion varnish was used on the painted as well as stained pieces. We saw a kitchen that was 10 years old, and looked like new. In CA, where we live, there are a lot of environmental regulations, so the finish shops have to have special exhaust systems, etc... to use conversion varnish (some of them don't use it, and some the the locally done finishes don't hold up well - tend to chip, etc...). We were convinced that a "factory like finish" is available from the better local finish shops. I think that finishes done in the shop are better than those done onsite. Finishing on-site is much more expensive, because they have to tape off the area around the painting, so it's more labor-intensive. (And they may not be able to use the most durable finishes). I've never heard that only brushed on paint is authentic. I think that is a much less desirable way to paint cabinets - doesn't look as good, or last as long. Will be interested to see what other posters say on this. Good Luck!
...See More
Concerns about root (plant) health after move/pot & soil transplant
Q
Comments (18)
Hi, Samantha. Before you water, it's a good idea to check to see what moisture levels are like below the surface. Use a 1/4 or 5/16" wood dowel (any hardware of home improvement store, sharpened at both ends in a pencil sharpener. You can get 2, 3, 4, from 1 - 48" dowel. Make sure at least 1 is long enough to reach the bottom of your largest pot. You can use a little science to help keep water retention at acceptable levels, more specifically you can use Newton's First Law of Motion, which states that a body in motion tends to stay in motion unless acted upon by an external force, and a body at rest tends to stay at rest unless acted upon by an external force. To apply the science, water your plant like you would if your soil allowed it w/o limitations to the plant. It doesn't, but pretend it does. When done watering, there will be a LOT of excess water left in the soil that has plenty of limiting potential. To negate that, pick the pot up by the rim, hold it over a sink, bathtub, lawn, ..... and move the plant smartly downward before sharply reversing the coarse to upward. When the direction changes from downward to upward, the excess water in the pot will continue moving downward and out the drain hole. You'll very quickly pick up the appropriate rhythm, and soon all excess water will have been removed. You can also tip your pots at about a 45* angle after watering and or add a drainage wick to a drain hole - preferably one through the bottom of the pot next to the sidewall. Compare picture B to picture A, and note the wick in picture E. These practices allow you to keep normally very water-retentive soils free of excess water and give the plant a fighting chance, free of the limitations imposed by soggy soils. You still have less aeration than you'd expect in media based on a high % of coarse material, but it's much better than suffering the limitations of a soggy soil with the same stoicism of a cow standing in a cold rain. ;-) I would do this the next time your tell (the wood dowel) says it's time to water. After flushing the soil, I'd add a recommended dose of appropriate fertilizer. 3:1:2 ratio fertilizers very closely mimic the ratio at which the plant actually USES the nutrients, and there are numerous reasons why mimicking the plants usage ratio is part of the best supplementation plan. Examples of 3:1:2 ratios are 12-4-8, 24-8-16, 9-3-6, ...... My preference is Foliage-Pro 9-3-6; this, for a number of reasons I wont list unless you're interested. If you don't understand the difference between NPK %s and NPK ratios, please ask for details. because it's an important part of your nutrient supplementation program. While it's true you needn't worry about potting soils or repotting in the immediate, these chores should be part of your regular maintenance program and something you formulate a plan around. If you don't already have a plan in place and want to have one, ask, and I'll offer some guidance that takes the plants natural rhythms into consideration. In consideration of the plant's well being, it's better to work in harmony with the plant's natural rhythms than against them. Let me know if you think there's anything I might be able to further help with or explain in more detail. Good luck. Al
...See More
How do you get the soil ready? Slow and not so slow methods...
Q
Comments (27)
Hi Cori Ann - I'm a big proponent of the "mulch and don't wait" school of enriching soil, but I start with decent soil in the first place. It's clay, but loamy clay, so once I can get past the rocks and whatever else was growing instead of roses (like, horrors, a LAWN), I have decent stuff to work with. I do the usual lasagne method over the top of the grass or whatever, since I am wayyyyy too lazy to double dig anything (once at my old house, and never again). When I have a new area I want to turn into a garden, I give myself maybe a day's lead time (but fine if not) to do the following: - lay down cardboard, paper bags and/or newspapers, and cover with organic stuff like leaves, compost, vegetable trimmings, or whatever - usually 3-5" thick at least - Add some cheater topsoil to jumpstart the breakdown process - maybe 1" - top with leaves as top mulch, not necessary to shred if you have something to hold them in place (too much like work) or mulch if you're not cheap like me. A good additional 3" or so of these will break down over the season to enrich the whole bed. - Go ahead and plant where I jolly well want to. Dig a hole through the lasagne layers into the crappy soil, and mix all of the above into the planting hole, chopping vigorously at the vicious little grubs as you find them (good for the soul as well as soil). I always add some extra manure and compost as well as alfalfa when I plant (even in established beds), mixed about 1/3 with the rest regular soil, so this prepares the hole a little extra. - Let the worms do your work for you, to even out the discrepancy between your Cadillac planting hole and Nova rest of the bed. You don't want to create a huge sink if you have super clay soil, where all the water pools in your good hole and rots your rose, so by conditioning the rest of the soil while you plant you get the best of both worlds. Not having to wait, but not really leaving the rest of the bed on its own either. - When some of your roses die (as half of them will in zone 5 for me), plant the new rose in a slightly different spot from the old one to expand the Cadillac-ness of the rest of the bed. - Keep everything mulched with leaves or other organic material indefinitely to keep feeding your soil for a minimum of work, and maximum benefit with minimum wait time. Make those worms WORK for their grub. I've done this dozens of times in soil that you couldn't get a pitchfork into without serious sweat, and ended up mid-season with soil good enough to flip with a hand tool. The copious amounts of organic material mixed in with some real soil does it for me, and I don't fuss with waiting at all. Of course that's my soil and yours may differ. Cynthia
...See More
Rooting methods that work best for your soil and climate
Q
Comments (39)
seasiderooftop I'm super excited for your success. You are right about NO WATERING for the 1st month, until soil is dry out if COVERED UP completely. Here's an excerpt on Cheryl Netter's baggie-method for her zone 5a, Colorado. http://www.cnetter.net/rose_tour/rose_cut.html " To score the cutting, you can use a knife, pin (or even a sharp fingernail) and scratch just through the surface to the pith underneath. The cutting needs the leaves to produce roots, but those under the soil will just rot. Fill a gallon zip lock baggie 1/4 to 1/3 full with moist (not wet) STERILE loose potting mix. I use 1/2 Peter's potting soil and 1/2 perlite or vermiculite. If you use a powder such as Rootone, dip the end of cutting into rooting compound and then knock the excess off until just a thin coating is on the cutting. Poke a hole into the soil in the baggie where the cutting will go. Carefully insert the cutting a couple of inches into the hole. Once all the cuttings are inserted, gently squeeze the soil in the baggie by placing your hands on each side and pushing in until the holes are closed up and the soil is making good contact with the cuttings. Use 1/4 to 1/2 cup of water. Gently pour a tiny amount of this water right at the point where the cutting sticks into the soil. This helps the soil stick to the cutting and removes air pockets Inflate the baggie by blowing into it and zip it shut. Put in bright, indirect light - if it gets direct sun it will cook. If any leaves drop from the stem, you can remove them and reinflate the baggie. Once you are convinced that the cutting has enough roots, unzip the baggie about an inch. Unzip a little more every day for about a week. Some will show roots by the end of ten days, others will take more than 6 weeks. If the cutting is still green there is hope. Don't use diseased cuttings. If the soil is too dry, the cuttings will shrivel, if it is too moist they will rot and turn black." Cheryl Netter. http://www.cnetter.net/rose_tour/rose_cut.html Khalid Waleed (zone 9b Isb) 6 years ago Straw: Here is what I do in zone 9b Islamabad. Actually I don't do anything spectacular. Just making sure that I select healthy hardwood cuttings that are cut cleanly at 45* with a very sharp knife. I lightly peel off a bit of skin 2 to 3 inches from the base and then insert the cutting min 4" in the soil. I do not use any rooting hormones. I do not trim the branches / shoots too much. Watering has to be controlled. In winters, watering more could rot the cuttings whereas there are less chances of dehydration. Watering less is better. I plant my cuttings in a bed next to a wall in my lawn.... in open. But this is what I do in a very different climate where the temp in winters does not go down below -2*C, that too for few days only and it does not snow. Thick hardwood cuttings have enough moisture of their own to sprout. When leaves sprout, you may increase watering but not too much. strawchicago z5 6 years ago Thank you, Khalid, for those tips on rooting hardwood ... You are right about the thicker the cutting, the more vigorous the rooting !! I also do what you advised "I lightly peel off a bit of skin 2 to 3 inches from the base and then insert the cutting min 4" in the soil." Regarding Cheryl Netter's using Peter's Potting soil for her baggie-method: Since Peat moss is acidic at pH 4, some brands add dolomitic lime to supply calcium and magnesium. Peter's potting soil has bark ash (alkaline), which supplies calcium, potassium, magnesium, and all trace elements. Also granite sand has phosphorus & potassium (good for roots). Metro Mix also has bark ash, and is used in greenhouse veggies seedlings. Peter's Professional Potting has: Canadian sphagnum peat moss, vermiculite, granite sand, bark ash, nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, calcium and other minerals, wetting agent pH at 5.8-6.8 The below link detailed the ingredients in popular brands of potting soil. Soil guide - all about potting soil
...See More
gardener365
Original Author
14 years ago
This is what I wanted to see and hear about.

Dax
ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
14 years ago
sluice

most of my OH friends ... who do conifers and trees .. and have clay similar to yours ...

actually plant on top of small berms... due to drainage problems... avoiding what i call.. the cauldron effect .... creating an impervious cauldron of clay that holds too much water ... ergo the possibility of no air for the roots ... i guess, in essence.. making a pottery hole and hoping a plant can live in an in-ground pot ... without a drainage hole ...

do you do the same ...??

you have shown us your soil ... for lack of a better term ...

but what is your planting technique???

ken
sluice
14 years ago
Ken,

I have used the berm technique near a drainage swale, which meant the trees were basically planted on top of clay muck. There was evidence (old stakes, rotted tree trunks) where others had unsuccessfully tried planting at ground level on that site before.

These were larger trees which made things much easier because I didn't have to dig such a deep hole. There must be a trick to digging clay that I haven't figured out yet. Stick the shovel spade in too far, and it's impossible to lift the soil (or the handle snaps when the required leverage is applied). On the other hand, it takes forever to scoop out small globs of the stuff.

More recently, I am adhering to your suggestion of planting smaller trees (e.g. one gallon), as less digging is involved. These are going in berms or raised beds, or sometimes at ground level in a wide basin amended with compost.

Nate
gardener365
Original Author
14 years ago
That's about all you can do nate. I use a mantis tiller for individual plantings. If you let your soil dry maybe that's a possibility for you?

Dax
wisconsitom
14 years ago
The Forestry dept. for which I work uses our stump grinder to prepare the "hole", which is a rather broad, shallow depression. This is usually an inch and 3/4 or so bare root deciduous tree, but regardless, this is our typical method. Soil is clay-loam. We do not create a saucer or berm, but do mulch with wood chips.

On my land up north, the soil is just slightly sandier, but I still would call it a clay-loam (Soil maps of the area state that it is a sandy loam there). For my seedlings, I just dig actual little holes with a shovel. This year I was working with plugs-about 1" by 6". Not much more to say about that.

+oM
mckenna
14 years ago
No complaining on my end. I've got da good stuff, nice loamy soil with clay below, maybe around 2.5-3 feet down; not a hardpan clay either. No prep needed except that most of my stuff is in larger beds where I mix in lots of compost for the entire bed prior to planting. It can't hurt and I need to use it somewhere. I still keep the conifers raised about 2" above grade and mound up from there depending on where in the bed they are situated. I do not envy you clay folks. Sand would be cool for trying some perennials, hardy cacti, etc., that need perfect drainage. I guess we always want what we don't have.

Ken, you ever give cacti a shot?
sluice
14 years ago
Dax,

The mantis tiller looks promising, and their website also mentions aerating and dethatching attachments for compact clay. Thanks for the suggestion!

Nate
aquilachrysaetos
14 years ago
Rocks and sand at my place. I use a method I learned for planting Cal natives. It's similar to Ken's with filling the hole with water. A slight difference is I set the plant (tree) in the hole while its full of water and I rub the rootball with my hand to loosen the roots so the float free in the water. Then I slowly add the sandy soil. I water every couple of days at first by soaking for half a day. This method ensures there are no air pockets. My plants usually show no shock and start growing right away.
gardener365
Original Author
14 years ago
Very interesting both you and, Ken.

That tiller is a machine - Nate. It's wonderful.

Dax
tsugajunkie z5 SE WI ♱
14 years ago
Twenty-three years ago when I first moved here you could use the clay in some parts of the yard for chewing gum. When planting then, or if I reclaim more lawn now, the key was to dig (maybe excavate is more precise) a very wide, gently sloped hole. After years of incorporating in (at first) and top dressing the soil (today) with compost I now have some very nice clay loam. One thing I learned very early is never work the soil when it's wet. If those clay clumps ever dry out they will last a year at least. Not to mention how it ruins the structure of the soil. The old test for clay of rolling a golf ball sized wad of soil gently and pokinging it with your finger works. If the ball breaks apart, you can work the soil, if it doesn't then let it be.

tj

Let's Share Information about Soil Types and Planting Methods

Comments (12)

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

sluice

Related Discussions

gardener365
Original Author

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

sluice

gardener365
Original Author

wisconsitom

mckenna

sluice

aquilachrysaetos

gardener365
Original Author

tsugajunkie z5 SE WI ♱

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

Let's Share Information about Soil Types and Planting Methods

Comments (12)

Related Discussions

gardener365Original Author

gardener365Original Author

gardener365Original Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

gardener365
Original Author

gardener365
Original Author

gardener365
Original Author