Oh my. So cutting iff one leader will halve the amount if foliage the tree has? Someplace on here I read about "heading cuts" or something like that. The theory was you coule cut one of the dual leaders back half way this year then more next year.

I do not know about proper pruning time but I will volunteer that since it is an important tree you should sanitize your saw or loppers before cutting.

If ya could post a picture or two I am sure folks here would help u pick which one to trim

why after 12 feet is this an issue.. other than perhaps you have read too many posts that tell you one is preferred ...

the ONLY TECHNICAL ISSUE.. in dual leaderships.. involves arbs .... and snow load ...

yours isnt an arb ...

and its deciduous .... so snow load is irrelevant...

the ONLY other issue is aesthetics ... and that is your free will ....
frankly ... if it were 3 feet tall.. i say go for it.. otherwise.. weirder the better .... and ignore it ..

if you can not head my advise ... do it whenever you want... even better if no leaves on it.. and NEVER PAINT ANYTHING ON A TREE ... its not natures way .. and she has been doing this a lot longer than us...

think of it this way .. it goes dormant.... with this root mass to support both .. then while its asleep.. you reduce half of what is above.. it should go bonzo next season ....

personally.. i wouldnt mess with it.. due to its emotional value... there should be no way you can kill this thing.. unless you mess with fate on a treasure. .and the next thing you know.. etc ...

its kismet vs nature ... as clint said: you have to ask yourself one question ... do I feel lucky .. well do ya punk... ???? ....lol ...

ken

ps: in my collection of 500 conifers.. the most noted is a 9 leadered Cham nootka pendula ... [yes i know there is probably a better name for it] ... every conifer expert notices it.. and is stunned... no one points at it and starts giggling.. and wetting themselves.. because it has 8 extra leaders ... so riddle me this batman.. should i go cut off the 8 extra leaders ... because i read it on the intraweb????

Another picture (I updated my initial post with a picture).

Thank you for the feedback - I thought the dual leaders would compromise the integrity of the tree later on in its life. I know a redwood isn't weak wooded like a pear tree regarding splitting etc., but that was my concern. I would rather leave it the way it is, which sounds like it will be ok. Again, I thank you for your time/consideration/feedback. Always learning :)

Personally I would start heading off the leader on the left and finish entire removal in about 3 years. That included bark already looks like it will become a problem to me.

John

Me: I'd walk outside right now with a sawzall and cut one off completely. I've done it with 15' and 20' Picea glauca's at a friends house and you couldn't even tell that half of the tree was gone. You need to remove it completely. It's not going to hurt to do it all at once, either.

Dax

To make a long story longer I had to think this over.

If you leave it as is some time sooner then later the width will become unmanageable but it might be the look you want.

If you want to entertain another option for a different look listen up as this would be my fix. Also bare in mind this is a long term fix. Several years depending upon growth habit for your area.

Begin this fall after leaves have fallen. Pick out the weakest leader and make a 45 degree cut up ending at where the two leaders become one. Go to your local big box store and buy a medal fence post. One you drive in the ground. Depending upon which leader remains drive it into the ground about a foot away from the remaining leader you need to pull back to vertical. Whatever persuader you use make sure the trunk is protected from scaring. A rubber hose when using rope, flexible wire or just plain heavy duty stretch tape is acceptable. Pull into vertical in small increments checking every several months.

After you have received vertical presentation then I would limb up to 5 ft to eliminate the one sided growth pattern. In time you will have a beautiful 'Ogon' such as mine.

By the way, so I am told, the correct cultivar name now is 'Golden Oji'.

Dave

Up limbed to 5 ft.

{{gwi:749455}}

hhhhmmmmm

first off.. i hate.. by experience.. memorial trees .. killed a few myself ... but always replaced them since they were named plants ....

whether or not the actual first plant lives is really not essential.. as the replacement maintains the memorial.. and adds to the backstory ...

all that said.. i am with dax ....

choose one side.. trim all the side branches up to about 4 feet ... so you can see what you are doing..

take off everything above 3 feet ...

then go in and surgically remove the trunk down to the bottom ... and leave a proper cut down there...

do you own a tree saw ..... know about branch collars.. or have any experience with pruning??

it will look weird for a year or two.. but it will even itself out over the next few years .... especially since it will have a large root mass with half the top gone ...

and if it fails.. see above re: memorial tree replacement

ken

If wet snow or ice is an issue, I'd cut one off right away so the wound would encapsulate as soon as possible.
Mike

If wet snow or ice is an issue, I'd cut one off right away so the wound would encapsulate as soon as possible.
Mike

If wet snow or ice is an issue, I'd cut one off right away so the wound would encapsulate as soon as possible.
Mike

I guess I'm not seeing the issue here. I liked Ken's original position prior to him re-thinking it. If esthetically you don't like it then that's a different matter. But if it is the tree's health that concerns you, I wouldn't worry.

If that V was 6 feet off the ground no-one would think a thing about it. For my taste, I like that it has twice as much fullness. The only way it will be unmanageable to me is if it is too full too close to the ground. Even then you could limb it up. If not, I'd leave it alone.

mark

Thank you everyone for the feedback. I have decided to take the advice of removing the leader on the left and will be doing it this weekend. I plan to use the 45 degree method to try to make the correction look as seamless as possible.

Thinking about it more and looking at angles etc., it appears that the leader on the right in the images is becoming dominant, and that the left leader would take a more horizontal path in search of light. That was not something I feel can be accommodated in the space that I selected. I will also stake this tree for a year to promote more upright growth.

I really appreciate all the feedback that I received in this thread. I will post a picture of the fix after I sanitize the saw and perform the cut.

Warm Regards

Justin, first of all, your's isn't an 'Ogon', your's is a 'Snow Flurry'...
This is because it has a green foliage with creame white tips.
It's obvious that your's doesn't have a golden coloured foliage.
Why am I the only one here who's seeing things like this?

A little while ago I explained that 'Golden Oji' is a cultivar name we've to forget...

Here is a link that might be useful: 'Golden Oji'

My mistagged 'Ogon' looks exactly like the one in this topic. I wonder if a grafter some where out there has started some confusion by grafting the wrong tree?

I would not describe the tree posted as having "creamy white tips" by the same token I also would not argue with coniferjoy about conifers.

John

"If that V was 6 feet off the ground no-one would think a thing about it."

I would. No respectable Metasequoia looks like that. I'm actually kinda surprised he got it to do this, I think they naturally 'select' one leader as well, the leader, and reduce the growth of others.
I'd cut one in the middle of winter when the plant will lose the least amt. of reserves from it. Sure one trunk will have a slight lean but it will partly outgrow that.

Not sure snow or ice would ever be an issue with deciduous conifers, their branches seem too thin to catch anything. Maybe T. ascendens because of the upsweeping branchlets.

"the ONLY TECHNICAL ISSUE.. in dual leaderships.. involves arbs .... and snow load ... "

Not true, I've seen a couple Juniperus virginiana split under snow load, and I can imagine it happening to various other fastigiate, plumose plants that catch and hold a lot of snow.

good catch david... what i meant was on a deciduous conifer like DR ... i wasnt even really close ot what i meant.. lol ... i am not aware of any snow load issue on conifers that lose their leaves.. better??? ... lol ..

anyway .... justin.. you never answered if you had a TREE saw ...

and secondly.. a 45 degree angle.. is NOT important... any angle.. away from the trunk left .. will shed water ... do not screw it up.. because you could only get a 30 degree angle.. etc ...

i have seen knock offs of the type of saw at the link.. in the $10 range... and i will yell...

DONT FORGET TO MAKE AT LEAST 3 CUTS ... none of us are good enough to do one perfect cut.. with all that weight above ....

ken

Here is a link that might be useful: the key is the two rows of surgical cutting points.. and the fact that the rows remove cut material.. this is not a job for a dry lumber saw ... such as you would use on a 2 x 4 .... nor a 100 year old bow saw ... that grandpa got rid of by giving it to your mom.. lol ... to carve her dry turkey ...

I had to laugh. Edwin was the the only one who picked up on on this.

I guess the rest of us were to focused upon the two leader issue.

The 'Ogon ' 'Golden Oji'. When I renamed it the 3rd time I left the 'Ogon' tag also. I had a gut feeling that said leave it.

I personally think RedwoodJustin made the correct decision to correct the 'Snow Flurry'.

Dave

This post was edited by Davesconifers on Wed, Jun 26, 13 at 22:08

Ken,

Never mind

Dave

This post was edited by Davesconifers on Wed, Jun 26, 13 at 23:06

Ken,

Never mind

This post was edited by Davesconifers on Wed, Jun 26, 13 at 23:05

If Gold Oji is thrown out and we have the ability to equally pick from Ogon or Gold Rush, I think I'll use Gold Rush for mine. It feels like a more descriptive fun name.

mark

apparently we can call it "golden mantle" also according to the expensive book I linked to.

As they claim it was found/created in an x-ray irradiated seed lot in Japan in the 70's I now nominate the name "yellow godzilla". Both grow fast, grow huge, come from Japan, and have something to do with radiation. Not to mention I remember godzilla from the 70's lol.

Here is a link that might be useful: google book link

how about we just call it THE YELLOW ONE ..

i dont know what i am never minding dave.. but .. ok .. lol ..

i missed it because the title only says DR ....

ken

Thanks Ken - I have a number of those '100 year old' saws you speak of, but for this type of work I actually plan to borrow the neighbors 'tree limb' saw as he describes it. I limbed up a few pines with it and it appears to have the two row action you speak about.

ConiferJoy - I bought two of these labeled 'Ogon Dawn Redwood' 5 years ago as 1 foot trees from LazySS farms. I think the light may be playing tricks in the pic I took. If it were mislabeled I would lean more toward it being a species or 'regular' Dawn Redwood. Two caveats - I actually have a species growing 25 feet away and it is a much deeper shade of green. Also, this tree does not receive full sun. When it did it was a much lighter hue, and the other one I got receives full sun on the eastern shore of Maryland and it is absolutely yellow (and growing more vigorously, adjacent to a canal).

I do not dispute that it could have been mislabeled, I just think filtered light may be responsible for the appearance of white flecking. I would describe the foliage as more of a lime green and to my understanding that is somewhat typical as the yellowing becomes more apparent with more mature trees.

Thanks again everybody - one point of confusion, though (and sorry for the long post). Is it better to remove this leader now, in the fall, or in the winter? There does not appear to be consensus. I thought October might be best.

Removing it now will give it time to start the callus process and cover some of the wound before it goes dormant. Doing it this way may allow the tree to completely cover the wound as soon as the end of the next growing season next year as vigorous as these things are.

Removing in dormancy assures the tree will produce and store the max amount of carbs for the growing season. This will give the tree root carb surplus compared with the top growth and will be less stressful on the tree. This really only matters if it is a new transplant. After 5 years in the ground and from pics looks like it is growing perfectly fine, I would disregard this advantage.

I would still go with option #3 and make it a 2-3 year project because you will be removing half(!) of the current canopy. What is your hurry anyhow? If you remove half of the left half now and the remaining half next year, you are only removing ~25% of the canopy each time. This would seem the least stressful approach for the tree IMO though it seems everyone else disagrees.

John

Attached a pic of it prior to transplanting. This is in full sun and it certainly is a more yellow color IMO.

Tree was transplanted in 2011 but has already put on 2 feet of growth this year so it is doing well.

I am not in any hurry, although if given the choice I would make the three cuts in one day and be done with it. My preference is for the tree to live, and I have the patience to give that the best shot. I am a novice (at best) which is why I have asked.

That's going to be a very impressive and dramatic tree in your lawn. Nice choice.

The "best" time to do it would be in early spring when the buds swell right before it leafs out. That is when the plant will be most active metabolically, and the wound will heal quickest. Also, if you catch it before it leafs out it will have wasted no energy producing leaves which will go unused (b/c you've removed them). The disadvantage to waiting is that it will increase in caliper slightly between now and then, so the wound will be a little larger. Fall will be the worst time to do it since the plant will be going into it's slow period metabolically, and it will take longest to heal a wound inflicted at that time. That said, it wouldn't make a whole lot of difference and fall would probably work okay too.

Frankly, I think you'll be fine doing it cutting it all off in one go now, since it looks like strong tree and will bounce back fine. But I caution you to make sure you want to go this route - once you start sawing, it's final. I expect the tree will look rather lop-sided once you remove half, and it may be a very long time (or never) before it looks as nice as it does now. From what I can tell from the pictures, the two main shoots have nearly all their branches pointing away from the center with few or none towards the middle. Once you cut one side off, the remaining branches will be on one side of the trunk...kind of an undesirable look, and maybe unstable (to falling over) too. While it may have been the right thing to remove one of the leaders five or ten years ago, it may not be possible to correct this failure by cutting it now.

I can't tell for sure from your pics, you be the judge. And if you remove one side, do come back and post an "after" picture.

Alex

Look these trees have survived since the time of the dinosaurs and are tough as nails. Mine grew 3' a year in the prior 3 summers, which was one of the hottest & driest string of summers ever in the mid-Atlantic. If it's growing in a generally satisfactory manner and seems healthy, cutting it at ANY time won't be a problem.

This post was edited by davidrt28 on Thu, Jun 27, 13 at 17:35

"five or ten years ago"?
My tree has gotten bigger than this in 4 years, from a 24" starting point.

BTW I never fertilized it or watered it; granted, my soil is a fairly moisture retentive humusy loam.

I have kept the lower branches on one side of my 'Ogon' cut on purpose. I want to see if if the ones I don't cut on the other side will have an 'armpit'. As you can see by the picture, there is a path right next to the trunk leading to a bridge with no other place to go. Planned it that way. The tree is planted on an island I made when I dug the pond with a bulldozer 30 some years ago. The tree was planted 6 years ago when it was about a foot and a half tall. (1/2 meter)
Mike

The deed is done, and luckily there were a couple of branches that were reaching across toward the other leader. Luckily, from the area the tree will be viewed from the most, the tree appears to be normal (albeit less full) and I'm sure it will improve over time.

I am now working to correct the distinct lean this thing has. I put an 8 foot stake down and have it corrected about 75%. I will take a more aggressive angle next season, but it appears to be well on its way to becoming a self-respecting member of the metasequoia populace :) Thanks again for all the feedback, will post a pic of the cut next.

This post was edited by RedwoodJustin on Mon, Jul 1, 13 at 11:26

Here is the cut. You can see that this was leaning pretty significantly, presumably as the leaders 'fought' for supremacy. Correcting this will take a few years I am sure.

Good job Redwoodjustin.

Looks like a good clean 45 degree cut and I am sure the tree didn't care one way or the other what kind of saw you used.

Once you get it pulled back to vertical and a few years added to its prominence you will never notice the leader removal.

Dave

what saw he used.. is an issue of using the right tool for the job ... i caught a neighbor complaining about how hard the job was.. while using a carpenters finish saw ..

anyway .... i wouldnt worry about the lean ... it will correct itself when it doubles in size ....

congrats... austin powers.. man of action .. lol ...

sometimes i wonder if lonely people do posts.. and never really actually do the deed.. lol ... you on the other hand.. if i were on of your trees.. i would be afraid.. lol

good work ... just dont love it to death ...

ken

Ken, we seem to be bucking heads lately. Maybe it's in the water one of us is drinking that is causing this.

Aside from that I respectfully disagree. Correct the lean by pulling it back into vertical at the bend. If you do nothing it will correct the lean on its own but on the top side which you want to avoid.

The saw is a mute point. I could have used a hack saw with a 24 tooth blade to cut off that small leader and accomplished the same look he did .LOL

The man of action did a good job because he got expert advice and knew it. A great looking specimen it will be.

We also have Edwin giving him the correct cultivar name 'Snow Flurry' which all of us so called experts didn't pick up on.

Great post and follow ups.

Dave

If the main leader is vertical, leave it be. It doesn't appear to be out of whack, instead, it looks perfectly-perpendicular.

You'll never know years down the road that the slight to moderate lean at the cut was that way. Ken's right about that.

I have an oak I'm training that the leader portion for 5' for example isn't staying perpendicular. That portion I stake while leaving everything below as is.

Dax

This is my first post to the forum I hope I am in the right place.
I have a Dawn Redwood that is about 5 years old. Up until this spring it was growing fantasticly, full beautiful growth. But this year it has taken a nose dive. I have parts of the tree that seem to be doing ok, and other branches with hardly a bud on them. Usally by this time of the season
it has totaly filled out.I have included a photo to try to show this. Other photos are avaiable if needed. Any help will be appreciated..

Thank You

Another photo

Are you in zone 4? Where are you, and how cold did this past winter get?

$100 says its winter damage.

This post was edited by hairmetal4ever on Thu, Jun 26, 14 at 21:44

no mim.. this old post is not the right place ..

go to the main page... and look for POST A MESSAGE ...

and start your own post...

and check the box.. so email replies come to you ...

i will not reply in this post.. to your hijacking...

and dont take that personally.. many newbs make the same mistake ... and we have to train them all...

in your new post.. tell us where you are.. big city ... and add a pic of the whole..

i had the worst winter ever.. z4 at least.. in my z5 ... and not much DR damage ...

ken