I was getting overrun with weeds too, I've started using layers of newspaper, ones with no coloured ink, and covered with a layer of wood shavings, the paper and shavings compost down over a couple of years and they don't prevent the perennials from spreading out. I've done the thing with landscape cloth, most annoying when you decide to dig another hole, trying to insert the shovel and end up thinking you've hit a buried cement wall.

A......

the weeds dont pop up through the newspaper but the perennials do?

when i want to add new plants with the weed barrier i just cut an "X" in the barrier
the landscaper used heavy duty plastic stuff, its almost like pond liner material. its been down for 14 years and is still holding up with no weeds.
i will get the weed cloth from lowes since ive never even seen what the landscaper used available in stores

Hi,

I don't know if I'd put down the landscape fabric or plastic as a weed barrier. Newspaper or carboard is fine, because at least they eventually disintegrate and are easier to cut through to add plants.

I did a job last year for a client where I had to pull up 8 inches of mulch! layered on top of fabric that never rotted. Guess what, the fabric was riddled with tree, shrub and perennial roots that should have been deeper in the soil but had instead formed an unhealthy mat of roots. The fabric actually prevented proper development. Once the fabric was gone the soil was able to breathe and all the plants actually recovered quite nicely.

Besides, if you've got a perennial like quackgrass, it's sharp growing tips will pierce anything you put down.

If the weeds are that bad, I would consider spraying several times with Roundup, allowing time for the weeds to die and then layering the area with newspaper and then putting the perennials in. It will take longer doing it this way but it will cut considerably on any future weeds.

Hope this helps.

I've had problems with old weed barrier here also. The previous owner put down a very tough, heavy material in part of the back yard, then put soil on top (???). I thought I was going to have a heart attack trying to get that stuff up. I finally rolled up what I could, let the dirt dry and then beat it like crazy with a shovel. The fabric hadn't rotted, but like Gonative mentions it was riddled with roots and a good many stinkwood trees had popped up through it.

In another part of the yard he had used lightweight barrier with mulch on top. No problem for the weeds, but a chore to get rid of.

I have used lightweight weed barrier to hold down cardboard until I could mulch it properly, but only as a last resort.

If you can find a good source for cardboard, a thick layer covered with mulch works wonderfully. You can cut holes in it also, so you can plant. My only caution with that is in watering. Water will not easily penetrate dry cardboard, so you'll need to water any plants in the open area you cut around them (around the roots), if you broadcast water (like with a sprinkler), your plants may not get the water unless you water very heavily.

I use newspapers also. I've read that a thick layer works best, but even a layer a couple of inches thick is pretty good in a pinch. I tend to use cardboard for large areas (big beds, pathways) and newspaper around plants and in small areas. You need to make sure the paper/cardboard overlaps, weeds will find open spots.

kent

There is an ongoing debate (and test) in our garden! DH likes it and I don't. I hate it. I agreed to putting it under the path before mulching. We used the peremeable (breathable) fabric in one area of the shrub garden and none in the other. So, today I'm planting and I just don't even want to go to the section with the fabric because I have to cut through it. DH agreed to go back out there this spring and start cutting out sections as he's now convinced that the plants can't spread and, he'll have to do all the planting in that area because I don't like dealing with the fabric! About the only weed we have to pull is the occasional wild onion.

Another problem I had with the landscape cloth we used, when I watered it wasn't getting through the cloth to any great extent. Using the newspaper/shavings mulch I didn't have any trouble with the perennials spreading, they just pushed the mulch aside, and the weed seeds just don't germinate. I have to pull the odd blackberry though:-( .

A......

thanks for all your input =)
inspite of the negative effects (allthough i havent had any)
ive decided i have to use a weed barrier.
i spoke to my neighbors and a landscaper and they all agreed that we're we live a weed barrier is crucial.
i know from last summer when i planted a tiny garden around my mailbox without a weed barrier all i did everyday was pull weeds. id pull in the afternoon and the next morning 20 more weeds popped up! mostly thistle with about 10 other kinds of weeds but the thistle was the worst.
i really think it would be a dissaster planting a very large bed without a barrier in my case and newspaper just wont do it (ive tried that before too)
ive also done the roundup method in my tiny mailbox garden early last spring. it killed the weeds but not for long. it also made the soil poisonous i think because anything i planted there after would die within a week. i finally stopped using the roundup and it took about a month before the soil wasnt toxic anymore and i could replant.
by late august i was getting very tired and bored of picking out weeds and i had hubby install the weed barrier.
phew i was finally free of weeds
i just thought the barrier would keep the plants from spreading and getting full, but im sure if i plant them close together they will fill in and have a full appearance (i hope)
anything is better than constant weed pulling in my opinion :)

I copied this from renegadegardener.com. It is a great site. I could not find how to link to this specific article, so I copied it.

DO NOT USE WEED BARRIER! You will regret it. I did. DO not take your neighbor's advice.

Here is what the renegade gardener has to say:

Dont ever lay landscape cloth or weed barrier on the ground before planting.

Insidious, how these product lines have grown. What began years ago as landscape clothÂdesigned for vertical use behind boulder walls, to keep soil from eroding through the wallÂhas evolved into any number of "weed barrier" products that homeowners are encouraged to lay flat on the ground before planting trees, shrubs, even perennials.

Homeowners think itÂs a great idea: Lay down a weed barrier fabric, and they wonÂt have any weeds. Except studies have shown that though porous, weed barrier fabrics do not allow water to penetrate the soil as readily as soil without fabric. In heavy rain, a lot of water builds up and runs off, one reason why gardeners who use weed barriers see edges of it glistening in the sunlight so often. More important, weed barrier fabrics decrease the amount of oxygen that is drawn into the soil. All plant roots require oxygen, at various preferred levels (yes, even water plant roots).

ItÂs a shortcut that harms your soil, and your plants. The worst barrier in the world, of course, is black plastic poli, because it allows NO oxygen or moisture into the soil, except at the base of the plant, where a hole was cut to accommodate planting. The soil dies out all around the plant, meaning no microbe activity (those little microscopic critters need soil that contains air and water and organic material), and the plants donÂt bloom as well as they could, donÂt grow as fast, and decline prematurely.

But getting back to porous weed barriers  they serve no purpose, except to make you rue the day you put it down on the day you want to move a shrub, plant a new shrub, or plant perennial groundcovers around the shrubs.

The key to growing healthy plants is to duplicate nature. In nature, a tree falls down and over decades it gets sucked back down into the earth, all those nutrients being returned to the ground. In the suburbs, a tree goes down in our yards during a storm, and we call a tree service to remove it. In the woods, trees lose their leaves in the fall so that those leaves can replenish the soil. Meanwhile, we carefully rake every last leaf from our lawns and our gardens in the fall because they smother and kill our lawns over winter, plus we donÂt like the look. Then each spring we fertilize the soil like mad.

If youÂd like to garden in a way that makes sense, go back to nature. Mulch all your plants with organic matter, placed directly on the soilÂa four- to five-inch layer of shredded hardwood is good around trees and shrubs, and a two- to three-inch layer of shredded leaves, dried grass clippings, cocoa bean mulch or the like is good around perennials and annuals. That will block the sunlight most annual weed seeds need to germinate just as effectively as plastic weed barriers. Perennial weeds, like thistles, theyÂre going to burst up through plastic weed barriers as it weakens in three years, then spread just as quickly as they will in the proper mulch, so youÂre not losing anything. Thistles and other tough perennial weeds have to be dug up or sprayed regardless of what you do. And itÂs a helluva lot easier to dig up the entire root system of tough perennial weeds popping through organic mulch than it is when a weed barrier fabric is involved.

You WANT these organic mulches to slowly disappear, to break down and replenish the soil around the plants. Mulches around perennials and annuals SHOULD last only one season. You go out and redo the mulch in your flower beds each year, itÂs called gardening.

A five-inch layer of shredded hardwood bark around trees and shrubs should last three seasons, depends on the quality, cypress mulch lasts longest but is more expensive. Whichever you use, you just add more as it decays and you see patches of bare soil.

And donÂt do this: IÂve seen landscapers lay down weed barrier, cut holes, plant shrubs and perennials, and then top it off with shredded hardwood mulch. Now, the plastic weed barrier stops the decaying mulch from entering the soil! The shredded hardwood ALONE will block the weeds; in this case, the plastic weed barrier is both superfluous and harmful.

You check your mulched beds every few days and pull out the few weeds that make it, pull seven weeds a day in spring and early summer, keep up with your mulching, and after a few seasons you will have very little weed activity. YouÂre pulling the weeds before they can go to seed, so eventually, no more seeds. Most of the easy-to-pull weeds you spot in summer and fall are probably wind-blown seeds that landed on top of the mulch anyway, and would germinate and grow with or without weed barrier fabric.

Sorry for the length of this, one lousy photo and all. I guess I could have written one sentence to explain this DonÂt DO That, instead of the 827 words above: DonÂt use weed barrier fabric, because if you start gardening, within five years it will bite you in the ass, and within six years youÂll just wind up ripping it all out.

Thanks gottagarden, don't be sorry about the length, you have just explained in a way that everybody should understand why we shouldn't use weed barrier fabric, and yes, it will come back and bite you in the ass.

A......

I haven't had good experiences with weed control fabric, either. When I moved into my house, the entire back yard was a weed-infested mess. Tired of pulling weeds constantly, I put weed barrier in a new bed I was making. The following year, I had puny perrenials, yet still healthy weeds. The weeds simply grew in the mulch on top of the weed fabric or grew through the holes I made to plant perennials. The soil underneath the weed fabric was hard as a brick since no water could get through to the soil, and all the compost or soil ammendments I had put onto the bed lay on top of the weed fabric, merely feeding the weeds.

I put in a second bed using cardboard and a super thick layer of mulch. Sure, I still had some weeds to pull, but the number of weeds have been dramatically reduced. Plus, the perennials and annuals I planted have really filled in and are pushing the weeds out little by little. Even during the drought we've had the last few years, this bed stays comparatively moist, and the soil is in great condition.

Just my 2 cents :)

Please, I did NOT write that. I copied it from renegadegardener.com

I am not that talented.

Gottagarden, I did not think you had written it, just wanted to thank you for going to the trouble of typing it out, we can all benefit from that article. Unfortunately at times I don't word my responses right. Eventually I'll get the hang of it, bear with me. :-)

A......

This is my one gripe and I have to put it out there. Professional Landscapers who perpetuate unhealthy gardening practices and convince homeowners that this is horticulturally correct.

Just because someone is in the business doesn't always mean they completely know what they're doing. There's more to landscape design and maintenance (this includes perennials, woody materials, grass) then just knowing how to run a lawn mower or a leaf blower.

If this so called professional landscaper is advocating landscape cloth then I would recommend a good class at the local Junior College in Botany or Biology 101 so that they can understand how unhealthy this practice is for all of the above mentioned reasons outlined above by everyone.

Don't do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1> It smothers the soil
2> It doesn't allow for mulches to break down in a timely manner so they can ammend the soil
3> doesn't allow good water/air flow
4> really nasty weeds such as bermuda grass will end up coming through anyway
5> weed seeds that land on top will eventually manage to grow roots down through the barrier
6> the barrier will eventually degrade to a point you are going to have to take it back up. It will be brittle, coming up in pieces and you'll have to go in search of the pieces left behind.
7>discarded weed barrier ends up in the landfill
8>probably not the best product for worms and other soil critters to work around.

I used weed block once back in the first days of my gardening passion. When I decided I needed to take it up (which was about a year or two later) my soil was compacted, nasty, mucky clay. Then I switched over to newspaper, paper grocery bags and cardboard. I've used these items for years with great success. My soil only improves now.

Oh and I forgot, all the paper products can be aquired for free unlike the plastic weed barriers. Free is such a wonderful price to pay!

Vaderbanger,

I can't comment on weed barriers because I have never used one, but I was wondering about your comment concerning the newspaper method not working for you.

I've been creating lasagna beds for the last few years and have found that a thick layer of newspapers and cardboard that overlap is a very good barrier against weeds. Could it be that you are not using enough cardboard or newspaper?

I put down at least an inch of both cardboard and newspaper, watering each layer individually. I cover it all with mulch, compost, dirt and coffee grounds and then let it simmer for a few weeks to allow the grass and weeds to smother under the layers. Only then do I start to plant into what is now basically, a raised bed.

Some people plant directly into a lasagna bed, I have found it better to wait a bit and let the whole thing cure before adding new plant material.

Best of luck with your project. I know how frustrating battling weeds can be!

Marilyn

ok ok no weed barrier lol
im a little scared though ya know, im afraid i'll end up with too many weeds than i can handle and be left with nothing but a weed garden.
when i did the newspaper yes i did it kinda on the thin side.
is there anyway i can skip the newspaper process alltogether? its gonna be a pretty large garden and it would take a few years worth of newspaper to cover it (i dont even have newspaper)
heres what i plan on doing now, i hope its right, if not guide me through it cause i have no clue what im doing lol
im going to amend (?) the soil with compost and then cover that with 2-3" of mulch, does this sound ok?
i was wondering instead of compost can i use miracle grow's garden soil?

I never use newspaper. I just put 2-3 inches of mulch down, and that stops weeds. It's that simple.

Hi all. Im new to this page and thought I might seek some help. I understand the general consensus about not using weed barrier but everyone seems to be discussing flower beds and perenials. I am building a new vegetable garden.I live in NE Oklahoma and I have had great success in the past years with my gardens but I moved to a new location that is mostly limestone with a thin layer of dirt on top. I am planning on building a bed 2 railties high and filling with topsoil/compost mix. I was going to put barrier down under the dirt I lay in the bed because Im sure eventually the grass and weeds will make it through. I realize also there is no way to tell what weeds will be in the new soil I put down so Ill have to contend with that too. Does anyone have any suggestions? I would appreciate any input. Thank you all.

When I built my raised beds I put cardboard and newspaper down. It lasts long enough to kill the existing weeds and grass and then when it rots it enriches the soil. Cardboard is also pretty easy to get. Just find out what day is elivrey day at your favorite retailer or grocery store and ask them for some. I get mine from the local pet store. The downside to cardboard is you have to take off all the tape but it definitly covers an area faster than newspaper.

I've used weed barrier in some areas of my yard and not in others and wish I had never used it. Except in my paths and around my raised veggies beds with rock on top. and guess what? i have tons of weeds in the rocks! mainly bitter cress(artillary weed) and bindweed. My gardens are surrounded by and old grass field and when the kids or hubby mows where do the seeds go? we don't have a bag mower but who wants to stop and dump the bag every two minutes! ME! i am going to purchase one. but, i agree with everyone who says don't use it.

I'm a newspaper and mulch gal myself but.... I just got my Lee Valley catalog to-day, needless to say all activity stopped while I checked it out. They have a biodegradable weed barrier, 5'X30' roll for $14.95 if you buy 3 or more $13.50 per roll.
Here is what they say about this product:
100% biodegradable and compostable, this weed blocking film is perfect for preventing unwanted weed growth without the use of chemicals. A non-polyethylene film based primarily on corn products, it retains soil moisture and raises soil temperature. Certified for organic production in Norway, it has all the highest European and North American approvals. It will slowly start to break down within two months of laying it on the soil, but remains intact long enough for your crops to get estabablished. Can be composted or safely burned. Not to be confused with so-called biodegradable plastics that just break down into tiny pieces that remain in the soil for hundreds of years, this film completely breaks down into natural by-products by the end of the season. Made in Norway.
This might be worth trying under mulch, stop the weed seed from sprouting while the mulch is settling. Hope this bit of information will be helpful.

A......

I'm wondering, if it breaks down conpletely and relatively quickly, how it's different from recycled cardboard that is free and reused?

Kristin

For people that don't want to be bothered with newspaper and cardboard. No it's not free, but to some it might be neater looking.

A......

I'm afraid to use news print as a weed barrier. When I put down the paper in my garden, I read all of the troubling things going on in the world. This disturbs me and I go in the house and eat unhealthy and unorganic processed foods.

I look at the weeds growing in the garden from my window, and never get to plant my veggies.Can anyone help me?

What sort of much do you recommend? I have used straw and grass in the past but had trouble with weed seed in these materials.

My experience with weed barrier was that the very weeds I wanted to prevent from seeing the light of day managed to become entwined in the barrier.

Weeding is bad enough without weeding chunks of the barrier too! Never again! I still contend with it in places.

Cardboard works fairly well, but I have decided that weeds are resilient and have to be fought in one way or the other, and to one extent or another, as long as you garden.
kay

The best weedbarrier is human effort.. that's it. Good elbow grease -- and it burns calories as well. Weed cloth barriers do decompose over time, as do layers for paapers. Mulch is equally ineffective in the long term unless you maintain it. Seeds do land on mulch and germinate. If you've seen a dandelion growing out of concrete then you can see just how stubborns weeds can be.

Vaderbanger, I'm glad you decided against weed barrier. If you're planning for a very full cottage garden look, I do think using a thick layer of mulch will work. You may have to re-apply for a couple of years, but once your plants fill in and the weeds have been smothered for a couple years I think you'll find the garden manageable. I have hardly any weeds in the areas that were mulched and now filled in with plants. I haven't mulched my cottage garden in at least 6 or 7 years and barely do any work out there pulling weeds. I did mulch fairly religiously for the first few years though.

Depending on how large your garden area is, mulch can get pretty expensive if you need yards and yards of it (unless you can get it free from your town). Newspaper/cardboard is free and would also work well as many others above have mentioned.

A landscaper used the weed cloth in my father-in-law's shrubbery beds and it was a nightmare! the weeds just germinated in the mulch on top of the cloth and sent tiny roots through the cloth into the soil. they were impossible to pull. I will never use the stuff. I just put down 10 to 15 layers of newspaper covered with wood chips. Those will work in vegetable or perennial beds and will smother the existing weed seeds. Every year, I add another layer of wood chips as the newspaper and older chips break down and enrich the soil. If weeds to appear, they're easy to pull. The man who cut down some trees for us has a good chipper and will deliver chips by the dump truck load for free because it saves him a trip to the landfill and a tipping fee. A lot of people won't use wood chips because they use up nitrogen as they decay, but if you let them sit for a couple of months before you spread them it's not a problem. I sometimes don't even do that and have not noticed that the plants have suffered from it.

Also consider using a preemergent herbicide to keep the weed seeds from germinating. Preen is the easiest to find, but the garden stores may have others.

i have a fully edible backyard. fruit trees, blueberry and raspberry bushes, herb garden, seasonal vegetable gardens and edible flower patches! plus a few hens for great fertilizer. the best weed block and next years compost is leaves. and yes i pick up bags of leaves from my neighbors curbside yard waste pick up. about 4 inches think, then the next year till it all into the ground. fabulous garden every year. and free.

I have to agree with everyone else here. Weed barrier is not the way to go. Years ago, in our previous home, it was landscaped when we purchased it. They used plastic and rocks! :-( The hosta along the sidewalk never really grew. One summer I pulled up all the rock and plastic and by the next summer the hosta had doubled in size! I had found the soil compacted and dry under the "landscape" materials.

When we started our gardens in our current home, we used about 4-5 inches of mulch. Now we just had a thin layer every year. We purchase it bulk from the local garden center.

Thank you all for posting. I just registered mainly to thank you for keeping me from making the weed barrier mistake.
I have a suburban yard with about 1000 Sq Ft of vegetable gardens started 4 years ago. This year was warmer than typical and the weeds loved it to the point that weeding had me about to give up or go with the commercial weed block fabric. I did newspaper covered with grass clipping as available which works reasonably well but my area is too large for this IMO.

What I am thinking of doing now that you have changed my mind is to make a bout 50 12in by 12 inch boxes squares of scrap 2x6 lumber ( I'm a carpenter ) space them out for my plants then just spread 3-4 inch deep wood chips everywhere else then add potting soil or compost into the 50 planters.
Any oppinions would be appreciated. Even gently worded criticism :)

Thanks to all.
Ron