MHG, I've read that hardy kiwi are from northern China and Japan. I'm not sure, but I think the climate would be a lot like ours in the north east. JD, I'm definitely not an expert- just getting started with them. I was able to propagate some from cuttings last June (I've read dormant cuttings don't work well). Now, a year and a half later, they look about like what you would get from a nursery. Rather than starting from cuttings, I'd suggest getting some nursery plants- Rolling River Nursery is a great source. Later, let me know if you want some scionwood to graft some more varieties. Scott, I've had lots of bad ones, but none were ripe enough. From the nursery descriptions, they were all supposed to ripen earlier than mid-October. Some of them I've been sampling 1-2 per week since the start of September. When did you pick yours? If you picked them earlier, even a wrinkled surface may not have been enough to make them taste good. You've got me looking forward to Ken's Red, though it is taking it's time. How much different are the kiwi you grow from the ones in the store? I like the hardy kiwi a lot better than the store-bought fuzzies, even before considering that I don't need to peel them. But, if home-grown fuzzies are great, I should at least give them a try. Here's a pic of what they look like when I eat them. I think the wrinkles is what made some people hesitant to try them...Most of these were 21-23 brix, with one at 24 and one of the smallest ones at 14 (not sure what happened with it). Note- none of these are the biggest- I've already finished most of them :)

Newer version of Annie's Salsa - BWB only Annie's Salsa 8 cups tomatoes, peeled, chopped and drained 2 1/2 cups chopped onion 1 1/2 cups chopped green pepper 3 to 5 chopped jalapenos (for milder leave out seeds and ribs) 6 cloves minced garlic 2 tsp cumin (optional) 2 tsp pepper 1/8 cup canning salt 1/4 c fresh cilantro (optional) 1/3 c sugar (optional) 1 cup cider vinegar (see note on subbing lemon or lime juice option) 16 oz canned tomato sauce (to adjust density) 8-16 oz canned tomato paste (to adjust density) Mix all ingredients, bring to a boil, boil 10 minutes. Pour into hot jars, process pints for 15 minutes in BWB. Makes 6 pints. _________ A lot of changes have been made to this recipe over the years. Some people like lemon or lime juice in place of some or all of the vinegar, that's fine. (Note from Sheila - I like half lemon half lime.) Some people leave out the cilantro, that's fine too. Do not increase! Some people add more hot peppers or fewer onions, fine as long as you keep the same total measurements. (Note this is what NCHFP does in their new Choice Salsa recipe.) Some people leave out the sugar, that's fine. You can scoop out the goo in the middle of the tomatoes with your thumbs when I'm peeling and chopping for a less seedy version, so it's 8 cups of chopped tomatoes without the seeds and goo. Most who make it regularly as well as Annie recommend using a variety of different slicing tomatoes, not paste types, for best flavor and consistency. (Note: use the tomato sauce and paste to adjust the consistency of the final product to a "sloshy" consistency.) According to Annie "My salsa is not as thick as Heinz catsup but it's thicker than taco sauce. If you don't like it quite as thick or sweet, cut down the amount of paste. I would add some, then taste. Reducing that ingredient shouldn't affect the safety of the recipe. I use equal amounts of sauce and paste. You can pull it off the heat at any point and adjust for flavor. Before I cook it I check for salt, sugar, check the consistency. Add more pepper or cumin if I want. When I first started making this salsa, tomato sauce and paste came in 8 and 16 ounce cans. Like everything else, they've now been downsized, so now I have to use partial cans." Does anybody have good versions of the other recipes that have weird symbols in them for measurements?

I'd have to look up the recipe to see if it calls for pectin and which type but either it was over-cooked or too much pectin was added. On the other hand, jam isn't normally described as "soupy" so the results may be normal for the recipe but just not to your liking. Dave

Seysonn, Here's a few examples. Not of kiwi in all cases, but the basic problem of not verifying what "experts say" on the Internet or taking statements out of context: Wikipedia's article on Vinegar - surely an authority, yes? "The pH of apple cider vinegar is typically between pH 4.25 and 5.00 if undiluted." Or you see one of those little excerpts under a returned search engine link that reads "The kiwi fruit has an average acidity measured at 9.5 pH." or "...kiwifruit...pH of 5.0 to 6.5..." Um, really? 1st example is dead wrong and the second is taken out of context highlighting only search terms and references a soil pH for growing kiwis. Does everybody click on the link to read the WHOLE article? Not likely. Then you get into the whole alkaline vs. acid food thing where the food ash (after you digest it) is determined to be alkaline (good) or acid (bad) . Like this one: ALKALINE FRUITS Apples and Cider Apricots Avocados Bananas (speckled only) Berries Breadfruit Cacius Cantaloupe Carob - pod only Charlmoyes CRANBERRIES Cherries Citron Currants Dates Figs Grapes Grapefruit Guavas Kumquats Lemons - ripe Limes Loquats Mangoes Melons, all Nectarines Olives, sundried Papaya Passionfruit Peaches Pears Persimmons Pineapples PLUMS Pomegranates PRUNES & JUICE Quince Raisins Saponins Tamarind Tangerines Tomatoes Are they "wrong"? In some cases, blatantly so. In others, acid vs. alkaline are used in a different context than we use here for determining safe canning procedures. I'm sure, when you do your own research, you will find many more alleged examples. This post was edited by malna on Tue, Nov 5, 13 at 9:36