You are not getting in over your head. Grow what you can and as much of it as you can. Mulch your beds very well and it will be easy to care for.
Make sure you plant abundant growers. Pick tomatoes that do well with short seasons, and grow beans like scarlet runner which are beautiful, and produce abundantly in your climate (which makes me jealous to no end). Lettuces, arrugula and some nasturtiums (the leaves are so delish) make a lovely salad and are pretty. I think if you concentrate on both the look and the amount of veg you will get, you will be very pleased. Plant some red lettuce with Australian yellow leaf -too colorful to hide!
For pesky rabbits why not try some Deervik http://deervik.com/
This WORKS for my Mom with rabbits! She just puts sticks of this stinky stuff closer together than they recommend. We just use found sticks. But try not to brush up against it. Yuck. It's gross.
We've been told milogranite works well for squirrels around here.

Good luck. I think home grown veg are well worth the time and effort.

GGG

Tracy, my experience is that it's fun to try, but not really worth while for me. I have very easy access to vegetables and fruits grown locally, by people who are much better at it than myself, so the urge is not so big. Also, in my dry warm climate, keeping a vegetable garden watered in the Summer is a nightmare, not to mention a big bill in water, a very expensive commodity here.

I do have a couple of fruit trees, one of which is a weeping mulberry which produces a lot of fruit which I leave for the birds. Though very prolific, the fruits are small and a pain to gather, since they stain horribly. The birds, especially the blackbirds, find them irresistible, so I'm happy to leave the most of the crop for them. The tree itself is very pretty when in leaf, so it's worth its place in the garden as an ornamental anyway.

The other fruit tree I have is a quince, and that one deserves its keeping. It's a trouble free tree, fruits heavily and I manage to make "marmelada" out of them in good quantity every year. I wouldn't be without it. Other than that, on the "edible" side I mostly concentrate on tea herbs, such as lemon verbena and lemon grass and a couple of culinary herbs like thymes and mint.

Eduarda

I see you are in a warmer zone then me. I grow lot of Tomatoes. So much better then store bought ones. Going to try upside down growing container. Growing more red and yellow peppers. I freeze them great in salad also. And so high priced right now $3-4 each. Want to get some radishes and lettuce planted soon.And a row of potatoes.

Tracy, you don't need raised beds to grow vegetables in they will grow perfectly fine in flat beds or row beds. There are some positives to raised beds but they are not required. I have had the best luck with vegetables when I amend the soil with manure and then mulch with straw. Mulching keeps weeding at an astonishing minimum and it really decreases the amount of watering that you need to do. Plus it decomposes right in the beds and that's always a good thing. I don't water until things look a little wilted and if we are getting regular rain showers I don't water at all.

Cucumbers can be left to sprawl on the ground or they can be trained up a sturdy fence or trellis. They take less garden space when trellised and I think they are easier to pick that way too.

Squash and Zucchini squash are pretty large plants and need about 3sq. feet of space each. If you pick them continually they will produce continually, right up until cool weather sets in. Both summer squash (yellow) and zucchini can be peeled, grated and frozen. You can use them in place of applesauce and bananas in your favorite recipes. Delicious that way! You can also add them to mashed potatoes to add another serving of vegetable to your meal. I don't grow any winter squash because we just don't like to eat them.

I've grown both pole beans and bush beans, green and waxed, and I prefer the bush type. I direct sow these. Bush don't look as cool as a big teepee of beans in the garden but I find them far far easier to harvest. Of course bush beans take up more real estate. Beans can be blanched and frozen, you don't necessarily have to can them although I think canned beans have a better flavor over all. It depends on how you want to use them. I've done it both ways.

I grow tomatoes and I'm not choosy about the kind they are but I do try to buy determinate types. They grow fairly well in the large tomato cages but the indeterminate type need to be staked on very tall stakes. They grow and grow and grow! If you have green tomatoes at the end of the season you must pick them before frost. Any that are touched by frost should not be eaten. Once you have picked the remaining green ones you can wrap them individually in a little bit of newspaper and pile them in the plastic grocery bags. I just hand them from a nail in the basement and check them once a week. As they ripen I can either can them or eat them but most often I blanch and peel them and then chop them to freeze. I use the frozen ones in sauces, chili, sloppy joes etc. You have to thaw them and drain them before adding them as they will have a lot of fluid when thawed so I just pour that off and cook.

Oh, and I don't do peas. I've never had good luck with them.

If you are wanting to plant cauliflower, broccoli, brussel sprouts (cole crops) you need to start your seeds now. They do best in cool weather and tend to bolt in warm weather (there are some varieties of each out now that don't bolt so easily). It would help, and save space, if you planted them under your squash. The shade of the leaves on the squash will help keep them cool longer.

I could go on and on. I certainly would not be able to purchase vegetables in the amounts that I can grow them. I've been doing it so long now that I don't think I could begin to get along without a vegetable garden. I think it's worth every bit of work that it takes to grow it and preserve it!

If you have any questions about specifics you can certainly email me if you'd like.

MeMo

Hi Tracy,
I have lots of rabbits! I can't stand them! There are things you can grow.
I grow peas up my chain link in with the flowers. Beans I do inside the rabbit fence, so I can't comment on rabbit problems, but pole beans up a teepee or other structure are very productive and pretty.
I've had no problem with tomatoes or squash either.(If you are coming to the swap, I will have tomatoes that you can successfully grow.)
Rabbits will decimate pepper and eggplant seedings. I learned this the hard way : (
To keep my Lettuce safe, I grow it in pots on my porch.
Remy

Tracy, If your space is limited and appearance is important, I'd encourage you to go for crops which feed both your stomach and eye over a long season. As Eduarda says, take into account what gives 'most bang for the buck', i.e. fresh produce which isn't readily available at your local farmers' market.

Here are some edibles I use in the 'pretty' gardens:

Basil likes to be pinched back to a tidy form. You know what to do with the pinchings.

Dill has a ferny appearance, nice seed heads.

Red Swiss Chard (my fave for flavor is 'Charlotte') loves the "cut and come again" treatment, a wonderful backdrop to green foliage.

Edible flowers in a salad: I include Signet Marigolds as well as Nasturtiums, Pansies. (Thx GGG, gonna try the nasty leaves)

Alas, my experience with peas, beans & cukes is they're short-lived on the beauty scale in our zone. Zukes I make an exception for. Try 'Costata Romana' at any stage from a fingerling to two-pounder, you won't be disappointed. Ugly ribs, that variety won't be in your market, yummiest flavor ever.

Are you getting in over your head? Depends on where your head's at. I've grown most of our veg for many years. Rewarding to the soul, not necessarily the pocketbook. Happy to share Z5 notes, best wishes, Ana

Well, I won't go on about fruits like I usually do. I love fruits! What I will say is, how about thinking about what you can't find locally/easily that would taste best fresh or just be a fun treat. Gooseberries? Currants? Something nice that won't take up lots of room. Even some plums, pears, or apples. And, if you plant a bush or tree, you'll still have the surrounding space for a number of years before it casts much shade.

Grape vines can be grown on a fence. Nut bushes, for me, are taking forever to grow, but they look fine in the mean time. Fruits don't take a great deal of time or energy and a fruit tree can be a nice support for a vine.

I mix in tomatoes with some of my flowers, they seem to get less attention from pests that way. I agree with GGG about nasturtiums, surely one of the more easily grown edibles around. Beautiful and tasty. And I agree with Eduarda about quince trees, mine is pretty and the fruit smells great.

I don't have much luck with most vegetables, to be honest. I'd rather get most of mine from the farmer's market. Still, the few I get always seem worth the effort. Of course, I'm the guy growing weeds on purpose, just so you know. ; )

As far as squash in the flower beds goes, just make sure you'll be able to step around the vines if you let them sprawl around. I'm always forgetting to leave foot room. Some squash grows well on trellises (or fences) also.

Tracy,

I also agree with Eduarda, it's a lot of trouble, and I don't have enough sun, BUT if I were going to do it, I'd concentrate on something our family loves, like green beans & tomotoes, or something that's expensive at the store like canteloupe.

Tracy, when the family were still at home I use to have quite a big vegetable garden, but as they left one by one I converted the veggie garden into flowers. I still grow a few like Tomatoes, Pole Beans, Shallots, Lettuce and Rhubarb(this can make a nice statement in the right place). Fruit... I have a Raspberry bed in a sightly raised planter box and I have strawberry plants planted in amongst the canes. The rest of my veggies are also in long planter boxes, I also grow a few herbs scattered throughout the garden, I found a rosemary that is hardy for me "Arp" and I have lots of culinary Thyme growing in the gravel paths. These veggies give me the biggest return while not taking up to much space. Things like Squash and Cuc's I buy.

Annette

Wow, thank you all for the wonderful response. I have gotten so many great ideas. I really appreciate your all taking the time to comment here.

I think I definitely will start with what seems easiest: beans (pole & scarlet runner- thanks Glynis!), cukes, squash, and maybe some snap peas. Then expand from there every year based on space & success.

Anette: I would love to plant some rasberries & blueberries. But I'm concerned that all of the fruit would go to feed the birds! Do you use a net? Or find that they only take some berries and it's not a big impact?

I have limited space to work with right now as I have to actually make the beds first. So I don't think spring crops will be able to get planted in time. I'll have to wait for lettuce & broccoli till 2009.

I guess my biggest concern was that there would be so much extra maintenance required. I can deal with amending the soil prior to planting, mulching, and weeding/training. But anything past that is hard with working full time. Just not enough time in the day.

Thanks again,
Tracy

Just a note that squash takes up quite a bit of space. It is a sprawler and needs space to spread out. As I have limited space, squash is one that I've stopped growing. Also, the squash are so heavy that they kind of have to lay on the ground, and then one side tends to turn yellow. They're still fine to eat, but they look funny when you give them away :) Just a caveat.

I rgow raspberries and I don't have too many bird problems. I'm sure they get some of the raspberries, and our dog likes to eat them right off the bush sometimes too, but we always seem to have more than enough. Raspberry bushes can be quite prolific. Not much maintenance either, you just plant them and then pick them. Although you should prune out the old wood in the Spring every year or your raspberry patch can become a bit of a mess.

Grape vines I find to be more hassle than they are worth. They sprawl like there's no tomorrow and you have to constantly keep them in check. I've had a lot of trouble containing mine so that they don't strangle all my other veggies.

I would put determinate tomatoes in the "easy to grow" category. Not much staking (if any) is required and they produce earlier which is nice for slightly colder climates.

I also grow spinach and lettuce every year. SO EASY. You just plant the seeds in a row and they'll all come up. You need to keep an eye on the spinach and lettuce as the hotter weather comes as they will bolt, but other than that, very low care. Carrots too. If your family eats them, they're such easy veggies to grow. Plant, then wait till fall and dig them up. So much sweeter than supermarket ones too.

Tracy, the birds don't seem to go for the Raspberries, their bed doesn't take up too much room and the way we grow them is wound around clothesline wire stretched around two t-bars, with a spreader bar in the middle to keep the whole thing tight. This way I never shorten the canes, get loads of berries which are very easy to pick and this also keeps the bed looking neat. When the new canes come up we keep them in the middle of the bed between the wires. In the fall after I cut the old canes out I weave the new canes around the wire. It doesn't look like much right now we just renewed the bed last year after about fifteen years but I'll take a picture and post it.
When we had Blueberries the Robins use to raid them until we came up with the idea of dangling a few old CD's on fishing line in and around the bushes either the movement or the reflection seemed to keep them away.

Annette

Just for reference - I had Butternut last year, growing up a trellis I'd made. I only put the one in, and I put it in LATE!!, but I still had three beautiful ones about ribcage-height on me when all was done.

The trellis was oh so much stronger than I'd thought, and it was easy - pvc over rebar, I hammered in the rebar about 2' deep with 2' over ground, the pvc was 8' high and 4' across. I wove the top cross piece through chicken wire fencing, two pieces, that hung down and wove the sides in as well where necessary.
It was awesome, cheap, took maybe 1/2 hour to do, isn't permanent so I can move it elsewhere, and I really didn't need it 8' high, that's for sure. :) Might this year, depends what I grow on it.

Tracy I went out and took a couple of pics of the Raspberry bed, this is a space behind my greenhouse where I grow most of the veggies. It's another sort of hidden area in my garden so unfortunately it's the last place I go to weed the gravel and tidy up. The bed is 12' long by 3' wide by 4' high. This method of growing Raspberries produces loads of berries. Annette

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Oh my, you are all WONDERFUL!

cziga: I appreciate your input because your zone is so similar to mine. I hadn't thought about squash taking up too much space. But you're right. Perhaps that's one to wait for another year. I tried lettuce last year with very little success. I think this year I need to direct sow.

Annette: Thank you so much for the photos! I was having a hard time visualizing what you were referring to. It looks like a great method. What kind of raspberries do you grow? Where we pick on the farms in the country, their are all bushes. I imagine you do this to conserve space?

Thanks again,
Tracy

I think lettuce, spinach and almost every kind of green seems to do better when direct sown. They seem to resent being moved around in my garden too, even though you should be able to transplant.

Tracy, it's best to pick a variety of Raspberry that does well in your area. I'm growing Tulameen, huge berries but I like the flavor of Willamette better. Growing the canes on wire at a 4' height makes it soooo easy to pick. If I remember and I can find this thread again I'll post a pic when they're ready to pick and yes I grow them this way to conserve space. This is in my back forty, fouty steps from the back door LOL.

Annette

Tracy, I forgot to say that I also grow strawberries in a little window box. Just for fun, but it's amazing how much two little plants did produce last year. This year they are already in bloom and little strawberries are starting to form - so cute. Since the plant cascades and produces babies along the runners, I think it would look lovely in deep hanging baskets. I may try that sometime this year.

Another reason I don't bother much with vegetables in my small garden is the fact that Timmy is a compulsive marker and needs to ascertain his territory. You see what I mean... dog's urine and eating vegetables don't mix... Of course, you don't have that problem, since you have no pets :-)

Eduarda

Hi Tracy,

I had a large veggie garden at the back that this year is going to be turned into a flower garden. We just didn't use much of the stuff that was in the veggie garden so I don't see a reason for it. I do have a greenhouse where I will plant a few things like tomatoes, cucumbers, beans and who knows what else. But I am cutting way back this year. I also plan to plant lettuce somewhere.

For fruit, I have 2 kinds of red raspberries and 1 yellow variety. I had everbearing and Kent strawberries....but pulled out all the everbearing ones. I have a huge saskatoon bush....it is a wild one that grows naturally here. And I have 4 blueberry bushes.....if they don't do something wonderful this year...they will meet the shovel. I also planted 2 nanking cherries last year. Well I had one for a few years but the voles got to it last year....so it had to be replaced. I have never seen fruit from the nanking that was here for a few years...it was small when I planted it and I expected to see fruit last year....but.. The new ones were also small, so I will give them a couple of years to see if they will actually fruit here.

Sierra

I like the idea of strawberries in a window box. That is, IF I could convince my husband of it. Which I know he wouldn't go for.

Hmm that gets me thinking. We have a deck. What about a deck box? They might work well in there.

Thanks for the suggestion Eduarda!

Tracy

Strawberries in a window box is a good idea - I never thought of that :) We grow our strawberries in those hanging plastic bags that they display flower in nurseries, with slits along the sides for the plants to poke out of. They hang vertically on the side of the house and it is a real space saver. Another option to consider.

Here is a link that might be useful: Something like this

That's a great idea, I hadn't thought of the bags before. I've seen them but wondered if they really worked or were too much maintenance. Maybe I'll give one a try this season.

You all have gotten me so excited about growing some yummy things this year. I can't wait for spring to get here already!!

Tracy