Any advice on keeping American Persimmon happy?

16 years ago

I'm planting a Meader persimmon, but it seems from what I read that they really need a male nearby to fruit to capacity. Problem is, I have a small lot and these are large trees and I can't really afford the square footage to plant a bunch of non-fruiting persimmons.

So my current plan is to plant the non-meaders too close together for the long term, but yank out all but one male as soon as they get big enough to tell the sex ... three, four years? Does this sound dopey? Is there a better way?

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Comments (8)

picea
16 years ago
The information I have read is that Meader will set fruit by itself so you won't need another persimmon. David
lucky_p
16 years ago
The nursery catalogs frequently claim that Meader will set seedless fruit without a pollenizer - and it will do that in the Pacific Northwest, but that's a fluke associated with their climate. In the rest of the US, you've got to have a male pollen source in order for it to set fruit, and those fruits will be seeded, not seedless.
Better way would be to plant a grafted male - and one of the 'bisexual'(polygamodioecious) types, like Szukis or Claypool F-100 would be best, since they will pollenize your Meader, as well as producing some fruit, themselves.
John H. Gordon, Jr. Nursery in Amherst NY has offered Szukis in the past, and may also have F-100.
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I've seen some older virginiana growing on virginiana rootstock both in dense plantings and in wide open spaces and most were in the 20 - 30 foot range. These were all in the Northeast and perhaps under different conditions in different locations they would grow taller. In any case they can be pruned to a shorter height if desired. I've grafted virginiana to both kaki and lotus and they grow and fruit well on each. I would expect that a kaki rootstock would have some dwarfing effect on the tree, but with the risk of various problems down the road, I don't think it would be wise to recommend kaki over virginiana rootstock for this application. I believe texana has the same number of chromosomes as the southern virginianas, but I haven't heard of any hybrids between the two. Prok and Yates have an additional set of chromosomes, so they would be incompatible. These varieties don't appear to require any specific trigger to induce fruiting, so I would doubt that having no local wild virginiana would pose a cropping problem.
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garland
15 years ago
We have one Persimmon tree we planted in our yard about 30 years ago. I no longer know what kind it is. It gives us plenty of fruit every year. It is now necessary to use a step ladder in order to reach much of the fruit. I pick them when they are ripe (soft), wash them, and eat with a spoon over a sink. I also make Persimmon Cakes and puddings, and our favorite, Persimmon Cookies which can be frozen. We give much of the fruit and cookies away to those who enjoy them. (Save your clear plastic containers with covers to protect them as they are transported, as they are very soft when best.)
KSSteve
15 years ago
I can't find an online source for Szukis or Claypool F-100. Does anyone know of any?
lucky_p
15 years ago
Szukis is available from John 'Nuttree' Gordon Nursery in Amherst NY and from my friends the Brittains at Nolin River Nut Tree Nursery in Upton KY. NRNTN may also have F-100, but they don't list it - might be worth asking for it.

Here is a link that might be useful: Nolin River Nut Tree Nursery
njbiology
15 years ago
Hi,

Meader IS self-fruitful. I live on the Northeast coast, NJ, and my small Meader set fruit last year without a single locally present native male persimmon in the area. The fruit contained no seeds, hence my certainty that it was not fertilized.

I just wanted to mention this to limit the reoccurring misinformation about it being a fluke or salmon or whatever other fish on any coast.

The thing I want to find out is the situation regarding it having perfect flowers. Does it produce pollen for other (female) varieties?
parfait
12 years ago
Does anyone have any experience with a "Nikita's Gift" Persimmon (I saw on the Raintree Nursery website)? I want to plant a self-fertile American persimmon, & I was trying to decide between a Meader and Nikita's Gift. I was wondering about the hardiness, density of wood to reduce borer prob, amnt & sweetness of fruit etc. Would having both increase production? Thanks in advance.
lucky_p
12 years ago
parfait,
The original name for Nikita's Gift is Nikitiskaya Bordovaya(NB), or which loosely translated, means burgundy of Nikita Gardens.
It is a daughter of Rosseyanka(D.virginianaXkaki, aka Russian Beauty) back crossed to kaki - so, it is 3/4 D.kaki. Both are owned by the Nikita Botanical Gardens at Yalta on the Black Sea, with rights leased to the folks at Raintree.

I've grafted Nikita's Gift a couple of times, but it hasn't survived here - should be OK here in southern KY, and for you in a z6/7 setting, but I think my scionwood was damaged; it sustains significant winter damage at Terre Haute, IN.
NB's parent, Rosseyanka, in my orchard, is very late maturing, and mostly seedless(despite native males and at least one kaki that produces some staminate flowers) - but can be peeled, sliced and dried while still firm - and loses its astringency in the process; or, you can leave them on the tree until fully ripe. Fruits are more reminiscent of an astringent-til-ripe kaki than the typical virginiana - thicker skin that contains the soft, gelatinous pulp. Holds well on the tree - I have to pull or cut the fruit from the branches. Personally, I think most of my virginiana cultivars taste better.
Jerry Lehman, at Terre Haute, says that Nikita's Gift is larger fruiting than Rosseyanka, has nice red color, earlier ripening - and is delicious. I would anticipate it's likely mostly seedless, as well.

Meader - if there are any native males around, will likely be fully seeded, and not remarkably better/different than most native D.virginianas. It's a good persimmon, not a great persimmon - just one that's widely propagated and distributed by a number of nurseries. If you can find Early Golden, Yates(Juhl), or Prok, they're a better choice.

Planting both Meader & Nikita's Gift(NB) won't influence fruiting on either tree - they're both females.