I don't think your experience was come-on or laziness. A lot of daylily vendors have websites maintained by other people. One of the largest daylily webmasters has experienced illness and the deterioration of his personal life. He has been unavailable and vendors have not been able to get him to update their websites. A lot are stuck getting orders from 2007 price lists. They are frustrated, and many are building other websites.

Also, those vendors who send printed catalogs out in January or before (I'm getting a lot in October and November now) may well be sold out of more popular cultivars by February.

I always e-mail or call before ordering to make sure they have the ones I want available.

Aren't you the same person who was all bent out of shape when a vendor didn't answer your email in 24 hours? Maybe you need to have more realistic expectations.

Debra

"A vendor is out of an advertised daylily already in February? I don't think so!"

Why not? The daylily may be popular and/or the vendor may not have many plants of it.

"I spend at least a month in the early spring carefully searching on-line for sources of specific cultivars, preparing my orders and sending them off."

To me, early spring is very late in the daylily buying season. It's true that most of my 08 orders are directly from hybridizers, but still....I've been ordering since last fall.

"as some of these on-line daylily vendors either list daylilies they do not have in order to "sucker in" customers"

I highly doubt that. As I said, some cultivars are quite popular. And many vendors are small-scale operations. So, again, maybe not many plants available or not a lot of time to deal with web site issues. Besides, why bother "suckering in" as you put it....when it's hardly neccessary in order to get business?

"It normally takes about 3-5 minutes to delete a bunch of web pages, including an entire website."

Yes, but there's rather a bit more to the business than the web site. Plus, many vendors have day jobs as well.

"My approved on-line vendor list is growing shorter as a result."

Biting off you nose as they say? Maybe! I've just emailed a seller about 12 daylilies I might be interested in getting. The two I most wanted are sold out (see above!) -- do I drop this vendor simply because other people were quicker in ordering than I was?

My advice -- for next year, request catalogs & price lists. Ask directly about the ones you want, even if there's no catalog available yet. (I'm already on lists for several 09 intros!) Don't give up on good vendors!

Oh Debra, that comment is very unlike you. You must have taken a cranky pill this morning.
The 24 hour comment wasn't from Nancy.
Ed

Sorry, Nancy! Ed's right about my cranky pill. I have a sore throat today that is making me feel cranky. I do understand how disappointing it is not to get the daylilies you want.

Ed - It just seems so many people lately have such incredibly unrealistic standards for vendors and lily auction sellers - most of whom have other jobs besides growing daylilies and producing seeds. Sometimes the complaining just gets on my nerves.

I'll try to restrain my typing fingers the next time I'm feeling cranky.

Debra

Thanks, Ed, for coming to my rescue. Debra, I guess we all have a touch of the winter blahs and are getting restless to once again see our daylilies start blooming.

I knew I'd stir up some defense of vendors as soon as I gave vent here as to the difficulties I encounter when purchasing specific daylilies on-line. That's O.K. I always enjoy a good debate, as long as it doesn't get unnecessarily personal or libelous.

I think that when someone offers something for sale --- they should have that item available. If they sell it, they should remove it from the offerings on their site, or edit their web page to indicate they are sold out. That's simply sound and fair business practice.

When I am looking for a specific cultivar, i.e. Tet Ruffled Masterpiece, it is much quicker to Google it and immediately get a list of vendors who have it available than it is to peruse through my numerous DL catalogs in hopes of finding it. The vendors may live busy lives, but so do I.

Let's look at this hypothetical situation: Let's say that I am looking for "Bloomin Joomin" and "Rusty Rivers."
I find that ABC Nursery has Bloomin Joomin and XYZ Nursery has Rusty Rivers. So I make out an order to each one, and add maybe 10 to 20 more daylilies to my order to at least meet the minimum. I send each nursery a check and only later find out that XYZ has sold out of Rusty Rivers. I wouldn't have ordered anything from them, except they had exactly the very cultivar I really wanted. So now, I have spent a small bundle of money with them unnecessarily, and still I have to go back to the internet once again to search some more for Rusty Rivers. But that's not all...I have to wait for my money to be refunded, too.

Well, I finally find another nursery that has my coveted daylily, and once again I have to add a few more to meet their minimum, too, before I can send in an order. This time, I send an e-mail to make sure they have Rusty Rivers. I send in another check. This all takes time...and money.

And yes, to the suggestion that I contact vendors before sending in my order. I've done that. I've been told, "oh yes, we have everything you want." When my (substantial) order is shipped, only then do I get an "oh, by the way, we sold out of Rusty Rivers just before we received your check. Shall we send you a substitute or a refund?" Alternates may work fine for those who are merely using daylilies in a landscape, but certainly not for those who are running a planned parenthood for daylilies, like me.

But there is good news. There do exist on-line daylily vendors who tend to their business the right way, and follow the Uniform Commercial Code, as I believe they should. I am learning who they are, and they will be getting repeat orders from me. And vendors, if you are listening, ya never know.....that first order for $100 could well be followed by one for $1,000 in the future.

Cheers....spring is imminent. Nancy

Since I am a Hopeless Lily Auction Addict - I don't usually order very much in the form of regular vendors - but I do occassionally go on a hunt for a particular cultivar that isn't the newest for hybridizing purposes. Keep in mind that I generally order 5 or 6 newest intros straight from the hybridizer and have found that I better jump in quickly on any that strikes my fancy. My new introduction orders are placed usually in November or December. It also never hurts to tell the hybridizer that if a previous order falls through, that you are serious about wanting the cutivar.
My pet peeve comes from vendors that are listed in the Eureka Daylily Guide - I know all of the pros and cons of purchasing each year so we won't get into that..especially since this will be my last year ordering it - but when I am searching for a not as popular (I don't think) daylily for my hybridizing efforts - I thumb to the listing for that plant - find a list of 6 to 8 vendors that supposedly have that plant - only to e-mail each one and find out they don't have any available. Now just WHY did you list a price under that cultivar? I don't claim to understand how advertising in the Guide works but since it is a yearly publication - one would assume that the list of available cultivars would be up to date. I could understand maybe the lowest priced vendors being sold out.. but all of them?
So then it goes on my WANTED list for the Lily Auction if goggling for it doesn't bring desired results.
If I have offended anyone, I apologize - my caffiene level isn't up yet.
Shelly

As a former Eureka Guide advertiser, I can tell you why it is practically useless. Ken has to have the next year's advertisers and their info in in early September! Sellers are still selling and shipping in September and October, so if they list all they have to sell at that time, they may well be sold out before the Guide hits your mailbox. Also if a rare, coveted Munson (just as an example)daylily is listed, you can bet your bottom dollar it will be gone from all sellers before you can get your order in. Been there, done that.

Even after I quit advertising in the Eureka Guide, I found I was sold out of several, maybe hundreds, as soon as my webpage went up, as were were small and may have only had a few of many cultivars. Only the ones who had emailed or called and reserved a plant were assured of receiving it. So it does not pay to put it off if you see something you really want. This is just my take on the subject.
Ida

Shelly, I have just about concluded that I should do the same, and concentrate my future purchases on the Lily Auction, too. Starting in the fall, I plan to do that. I have won a couple of DLs there, and had very good experiences so far with those vendors.

Ida, thanks for explaining why those who advertise with Eureka are out of certain cultivars. But I've sent my list ahead of actual purchase to some of them, and have had several of them tell me they had what I wwanted. I promptly sent them my orders along with a check, and when they shipped them to me, they were out of some of the DLs om the list. With that kind of business practice, I have to go back and start all over again trying to find what I need. I not only have to buy enough from another vendor to meet the minimum requirements, but there's more shipping, too. If I were buying just a few daylilies, it wouldn't make much difference, timewise. But when you buy a hundred or more daylilies at a time from different vendors, it does make it very complicated and time-consuming.

I must commend Bill Maryott, though, for it's been my experience that he keeps his website updated. If he's out of a cultivar, he says so on the web page. I do appreciate his consideration for his customers. I'm sure there must be others who do the same.

Nancy

I had a funny thing happen last year regarding the Lambertson's. I wanted a few of their '07 intros very badly, but I was running later than usual to place orders. I emailed them about the CV's I wanted and got no response. Several days passed and I emailed them again....another 5 days pass and still no reply. Ok.....I'm desperate. I fill out an order form and write out a check and send it off in the mail. Four days later I get an email from Rachel, telling me that she was sorry about all the trouble I was having trying to contact them, but they had been away on vacation and had just got back. Also I was told that she was going to rip up the check I had sent, because the CV's I had wanted had all sold out. This year I didn't procrastinate. I ordered within days of receiving my catalog.

What Shelly said about letting a hybridizer know that you want their plants or collections even if they have sold out is very good advise. A hybridizer contacted me yesterday by emaii to let me know that he had a tet collection that he could sell me if I was still interested. I quickly got back in touch with him and said yes I still wanted it. I was SO surprised, because a friend had told me that this hybridizer had sold out of many of his 08's within several days of posting them on his site.

Linda

Linda, like you I'll email, but more & more, I've taken to calling. When the Lambertson's 07 catalog arrived in the mail, I was on the phone that evening. Some of those 07s were crying to be bought, and asap, too. :)

Same with this year....and with other hybridizers as well. And even so, there's no guarantee the ones you want won't be SO already. In many cases, there just aren't very many of a particular cultivar, and, if it's fabulous, all of Daylilydom is ready to arm-wrestle for however much of it there is.

Regardless, I've learned from experience that, often, the earlybird really does get the daylily. Last night, I put my name on the list for a daylily that won't be released until next spring (yup, that's spring 2009!) - and I did it even before the web site was up. Quite a change for this last-minute, procrastinating buyer, that's for sure.

I am surprised thet there is even an issue. If I was looking for something that was hard to find, and found a possible source, I usualy call to make sure I will be able to get the plant before placing an order for a bunch of other ones. But thats just me, that way if they don't have it I can keep shopping.

Nancy....I would love to take your original post and put it on the daylily robin, just to see what kind of response it would get...I like to make people think on occasion. I totally understand your frustration. I'm a buyer and a hybridizer, so I can see it from both ends. My problem is that the reproduction of daylilies in zone 5 is not fast. A daylily lined out in 2007 may not have enough increase to be offered until 2010. And then I might have only 15 fans. In the mean-time I get people hounding me for a start in advance, even offering a higher price. If I do that then the buying public even has less of a chance to get a start.(so far, I've not done that). Then there is the endless calls from clubs who want me to donate plants to their auction (I get at least one request a month.) Add to that the fact that I work another job at least 40 hrs. per week and spend nearly all the rest of my time doing either the web-site or daylily related things, including traveling to different clubs because everyone wants to see your program, tending the garden, keeping records, planting, hybridizing, growing, collecting seeds, paying the bills, taking care of the house and yard, doing laundry, groceries...well, you get the idea.
I think what the buying public doesn't realize is that we aren't a Lowes' store where you can just run in, pick out what you want and take it to the cashier. If I sell a daylily for say $100, I'm still not breaking even. Only the bigger guys are making any profit.
I'm not complaining, I love most of this. But just trying to help you see it from the side of the hybridizer.
But then, the big guys have all this hired help that takes care of most of the tedious things, and they really have no good excuse for not keeping up to date and giving accurate information to potential buyers. A lot of them do it quite well, but there are always the exceptions, isn't that true in any area? And then, like it was mentioned already, one of the bigger web-hosting guys went AWOL in the past few months and let everyone down. That's another story.
Then there are the people who get a daylily, let it die and want free replacement...some of them are dishonest, if you know what I mean. So there is another double-fan gone for no profit to the hybrdizer.
I will see flowers that I want a start of and sometimes I have to pound the pavement for 2-3 years before I can find a start for sale. I don't blame anyone, that is just the law of supply and demand working.
I just returned from a trip to Florida where I was able to visit Ludlow Lambertson's yard, and have dinner with them. What a cool couple, their yard is whimsical, and he is a great grower. And wait 'till you see what is coming down the pike, OMG!--His program is really taking itself to new heights. Anyhow, it can be frustrating trying to buy what you want, but there certainly is an equal amount of frustration on the other side. Thanks for listening. Bob

"I think what the buying public doesn't realize is that we aren't a Lowes' store where you can just run in, pick out what you want and take it to the cashier."

A key point. Maybe THE key point!

And the rest, very well said, Bob. Hmmm.....perhaps you're the new Voice of Reason around here!

Afraid I see both sides too. I've gotten catalogs or website updates have been announced and I've called the next day to place orders and 50-75% of what I've ordered has been sold out. Usually I ordered from these folks because the prices were the lowest around for the certain cultivar that I wanted and they may have had a couple more that I might not have wanted quite as badly but in order to save some on shipping.... Well you know the drill.

Then again, me, as a small seller, I have to start selling some of the newer cultivars quickly in order to try to make back some of my investment. Like Bob said, increase is not the same here as in Florida and my business is not as brisk as the big hybridizers so I'll list some of the newer plants I have when I may only have 2-3 of them. Will they sell out? Maybe, maybe not.

I'm one of those that has "one of the bigger web-hosting guys" that you may or may not be able to contact. Perhaps I should look elsewhere but I've opted to stick with him for another year. Whether that's right or wrong business wise I have no idea.

My best suggestion for folks is to call or e-mail the vendor to determine availability. At the point someone tells me they want to order that plant is reserved for them.

I can't be Lowes. Then again, I don't want to be. I enjoy talking to my buyers on the phone and by e-mail. I can't do that if I'm the local box store....

Janet

Bob, feel free to add this post to the daylily robin, if you like. And thanks for your well-written reply. It helps to understand some of the vendors' viewpoints, too. Yet, I'm still sitting here at my desk surrounded by what were my carefully typed orders that are all a mess now from having crossed out cultivars and recalculated totals.

At this point, I'm getting really confused, you see? I had such a nice, long list of cultivars that I wanted. It took me about a month of searching to find them at the different nurseries and to make out the orders. I first created a very neat, blank order form with MS Word, and it took me a long time to fill them all in with Photoshop. Some are two pages long.

Janet, reserving a daylily plant for a potential customer once they contact you with intent to buy certainly is a considerate way to do business. I know one vendor who lost a $2,000 order for not having done that last year.

Well, in summary, I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm getting really disenchanted with on-line daylily shopping. Fortunately, a few vendors have treated me exceptionally well, and I will continue to order from them in the future. And when I did lose a plant, they trusted me enough to replace it without hesitation.

And yes, the Lambertsons' flowers are awesome. They seem to be way out ahead with what they are accomplishing. There's just one big problem with their offerings....they all look so gorgeous, I have trouble deciding which one I can't live without!

Nancy

"I first created a very neat, blank order form with MS Word, and it took me a long time to fill them all in with Photoshop. Some are two pages long."

OK, I have to ask... why on earth were you using Photoshop to fill in an order form? Why didn't you just use Word?

Well, hon, now I just don't rightly recall why I did it that way.

Sheesh! If the guy doing the websites is ill, have him contact me! I could use a little extra funds updating the websites. I'm a little stale, but I do work with databases, PHP and ASP, so it would probably work out ok...

"I first created a very neat, blank order form with MS Word, and it took me a long time to fill them all in with Photoshop. Some are two pages long."

"OK, I have to ask... why on earth were you using Photoshop to fill in an order form? Why didn't you just use Word?"

I was kind of curious about that one myself. Me....I just shoot off an email or call. emails in particular take no time at all. In some cases, I've probably completed my order within a minute or two. Calls....well, depends on how chatty you and the seller are. :)

Sometimes we can be really chatty.....:))

Janet

"Sometimes we can be really chatty"

I'll say. :))) I called Big Name Hybridizer one evening to discuss his intros. After hanging up, I checked -- I'd been on the phone SIX hours with her. Something similar happened with four other hybridizers. Among all five -- both sexes and a decent age range, northern and southern growers. Gee....could it be that I'M the factor in common??? :)

Maybe email's the way to go after all!

Seriously, I usually send emails. In my experience, they're the fastest way to order. Nothing fancy here, no beautiful order forms -- just an emailed list, usually going as a high-priority message, and I usually bold face the ones I want in another color as well. email provides a record that the order was sent; there's no risk of a mailed order getting lost or delayed in the mail; and I can have a great back-and-forth with the seller if I want, with both sides of the conversation taking place at the convenience of each of us.

"Well, hon, now I just don't rightly recall why I did it that way."

Well, darlin', you just might save yourself some time if you use the right tool for the right job ;-)

Actually, greenthumbfish, I really don't have the time to bother with learning the finer points of MS Word. Right now, I've got to spend more of my time trying to find daylily nurseries that can actually provide what they advertise.

You see, I just got an e-mail reply yesterday to my most recent "advance inquiry." This vendor cannot completely fill my potential order, as 31% of the advertised cultivars are no longer even grown by her. Adding the "sold-outs" to that, 42% of my "wanted list," based on this vendor's on-line offerings, is unavailble.

Needless to say, I wasn't impressed. That vendor lost a substantial order, and I will take my business elsewhere.
If voicing my negative opinion here at GW of those vendors who advertise cultivars that they do not have should inspire some to sarcasm, then so be it.

Nancy

I don't see any sarcasm anywhere, Nancy. And I beg to differ on your time to learn Word.

"I really don't have the time to bother with learning the finer points of MS Word."

Now, see, that right there? Kind of wreaks of:

"I really don't have the time to bother with removing the 75 (or so) cultivars I'm sold out of off of my website."

In my minds eye, we're talking about the same amount of time. You're too busy shopping, they're too busy selling/digging/shipping.

Were you to have discovered how to create and fill in an order form in a timely manner (trust me, I know, the only thing done in Photoshop in a timely manner is image editing, and most dl vendors do not require pictures on an order form), you most likely could have saved enough time to place your orders earlier, thereby at the very least avoiding your choices being sold out.

I will whole heartedly agree with you that it is an unacceptable practice to continue to advertise cultivars that are no longer grown by the vendor. And agree that with a 31% rate on that note you should take your biz elsewhere. But "sold-outs" seem to be a caveat in ordering daylilies. And the early bird gets the wor...er...daylily.

I'm just saying, do yourself a favor and when this season's ordering/planting is done, take a few minutes, search the web for Word tutorials (don't rely on the Help in Word as Bill Gates thinks he can read your mind and usually fails miserably ;-) and I assure you your order form creation/execution will be much faster next year and you'll be able to place your orders sooner and perhaps avoid hitting "sold-outs".

Good luck!

Amen on the read your mind and usually fails miserably! ;0)
!#@% $#& ^%*& (_)+(*& ^%$ #@!

I just don't understand how ordering has become so difficult. Usually at most places I buy from you print out an order form....fill in the blanks and then mail it. Most of the time I don't even waste my time doing that. I call or email my order (sometimes both). I really do understand trying to save money, and trying to get the best prices, but you can waste so much time trying to find the best deal, that when you finally do find it.....it's all gone. And so may be many of the good but not so best deals. The best advise I can offer is to have a good general idea of what is a fair price for the CV's you want, find someone early in the order season who has many or most of the CV's you want and place your order early with that business. Yes, you might find someone who's selling some of those same CV's for less on down the line, but "A bird in hand is always worth two in the bush". And if you know you paid a fair price for what you did buy, you won't be kicking yourself later. I know how frustrating it is to find that you can't get the plants you wanted from the vendors you planned to buy from.

Linda

I think this has kind of gotten off the original post, so let me bring it back to dead center. I have a long list of specific cultivars that I wanted to purchase. I could not find most of them at any one on-line daylily nursery. It actually required me to order from about ten different vendors.

I would love to have placed only one or two orders. It's a lot of trouble to hunt down who sells what. It makes life a lot simpler if such a thing were possible, but what you suggest just doesn't work that way. It's not a "who's got the cheapest price" thing, it's a need for specific cultivars.

And for all you early birds .... that's terrific that you can place your orders in December, but me, I had to wait on Christmas and a mid-winter birthday before I had gathered sufficient funds to finance my expensive hobby. I'm not so fortunate as to have unlimited funds to run out and buy whatever I please whenever I please. I understand your rationales, but give me a break. They don't fit in this situation.

I'm amazed at those of you who are so quick to defend the on-line vendors who advertise daylilies that they don't have. Don't you realize that to a newcomer, like me, who sees a website loaded with 1000's of daylilies for sale, is going to think this is a reliable, established vendor? Why shouldn't we rightfully expect that we can buy what he/she is advertising? Is that how some small daylily vendors make themselves look big and important? Or do you think that those who sell daylilies should have some kind of special dispensation?

Since when is the willing customer in the wrong and the Seller in the right when he can't deliver 30-40-50% of what he advertises?

Nancy,

I think you are missing the point. How many folks have the land and ability to grow 60,000 different daylilies? To be able to allow you to buy all of the ones on your list? Who would have that kind of inventory and be able to sell them on the cheap? I think you need to be realistic...as many folks here suggested. Most people have other jobs, small patches of land and do this as a hobby/pleasure. Yes, some sell their "extra's" and offer to the public extra fans of what they grow. They as stated before...are not Wal Mart or some giant farming type operation. Nancy, if you are not happy with the "System" as it is...then try growing the size of inventory you are suggesting people have to be able to supply your needs. I think you would sing a different tune then. I am a very small hobby garden....about 1,200 different daylilies...but I would say about 400 of those, maybe a few more are not in any type of "Mass selling" numbers. Some I may have a few extra fans of...but that is it. Some I may have no extra's of....yet. The hours of required work to do as you "Expect" is not realistic....I don't think you are doing the math clearly in your head....to see that it only takes a couple of customers...to order... before you.. then many of what was for sale..no longer exists...THINK about it. It has nothing to do with "Make themselves look big and important".....I think you need to get a grip on the over all picture of what you are expecting....or just stick to the "Big Guns" when you place your orders.....I don't think Wal Mart became the largest retailor in the world......over night. I think if memory serves me right...they started with one tiny small store operation....many years ago. Think about it Nancy....I hope you can start to understand what you are getting so upset over...relax and just enjoy the total Daylily experience.....it is supposed to bring you pleasure and be fun and a wonderful way to relax and enjoy what some Special Folk's have developed for your garden pleasure....Life is too short to get wrapped around the axle over a plant buying experience.....Enjoy...:)

Nancy, I was so amazed at what I perceived as an inefficient way of ordering (beautifully created photoshopped list) that -- you're right -- I lost track of your main point.

Let me say -- you present multiple issues, with one being your method of ordering. Please! really! take our advice and streamline that. Get on the phone, email, or just grab a pen and paper and scrawl the names you want. You don't need a pretty list to get pretty daylilies! That is a total waste of your time.

OK, that is OUT OF THE WAY! The issue of order forms has now been officially declared resolved. :))))

On to the issue of places that advertise plants they no longer stock -- I haven't had that experience, but I can imagine how irritating that must have been....

Let me ask you: were the ones you wanted mostly older daylilies? Because many, many sellers - both the smallest AND the largest - cull their inventories. They periodically get rid of what have become the older ones to make room for newer, more modern plants. As was said - who has room for them all?

But if you are interested in the older ones, there are still sellers out there who grow them; some have specialized lists....I don't know how to communicate privately with people here, else I'd suggest you email me. I can give you several contacts.

Early birds -- you could consider asking the seller whether he/she will take part payments, e.g., a downpayment as it were with the order, then say 1/3, then another chunk near shipping time. Similar - I place orders every year with two "big name" hybridizers each of whom charges my card close to the shipping date. One of them is from the south, and I placed the order via credit card number in November or Dec. for plants to be delivered in early May. So, technically, I still have not paid for them yet - the money is still in my pockes as it were.

Long list of ones you want -- frankly, unless you can buy locally, you probably will end up paying a boatload in shipping costs. You may have to resign yourself to that - just consider it a cost of your hobby. Its unlikely that a small number of sellers combined will have all or most of what you want. ('tho it could happen.) IMO the best way to deal with shipping cost is to do a cost accounting-type computation and divide up the total cost for each seller among all the plants in that seller's order. You may find that each cultivar is only a few cents more expensive in those cases. At any rate, it helps disguise the total and ease the pain. :)

Alternatively, plan (now or in the future) to TRADE daylilies. You still have postage, but your new plants can be thought of as free. Even though they're not. :)

When I get ready to place an order after looking at the sellers website I then call to confirm that they have everything I wanted. I try and order from the same vendor to save on shipping, if they don't have enough of what I want I then find someone else to order from. I got lucky this year and ordered a bunch of Munson I wanted from Country Lane Daylilies and called about one but they were out and Jo offered a more exspensive one at a cheaper price. So it pays to call and check you might get a great deal.But my motto is to call 1st.
Jill B.

Nancy, I think Rick hits it on the head when...with all due respect...you're kinda missing what people are trying to say to you.

First, I suspect that you were just wanting to vent your frustration about being unable to secure the purchase of all the daylilies you wanted. We can all relate to that. Anybody that's done any kind of shopping for daylilies has run into plants being sold out.

I would, however, take a step back and not ascribe negative motives so quickly, especially publicly. Experience in other areas does not necessarily translate into this venue. I heard about a sale and emailed the seller immediately with some choices. It was over a week before I heard back. Of course, the ones I wanted most were sold out. I simply said, "no thanks". Easy as that. I didn't get steamed over it. I suspect that those who visited or called got first priority. The lesson to me was to call, next time...if I want it that badly. Oh, and that was a good seller, someone who sends wonderful plants. Stuff happens.

Another thing to consider is that if, say, you called and confirmed availability of certain daylilies, I'd recommend paying right then...either by credit card or paypal. If those options aren't available, I'm overnighting my check...if I really want this daylily. Because, unless you have a long and established relationship with a seller, how do they know that you really will get that check right in the mail? Why do you think there's the expression "check's in the mail"?! I bet virtually every seller can tell stories about people who don't do what they promise. So, if they get a chance to sell it and someone is willing to pay right now, who do you think they're going to sell to? Now, if they took your money and months later contacted you to say they didn't have it available...then, I've got your back there because that's not right. Once they cashed that check, to my mind, we have a contract.

I should point out that on the LA you, in essence, have a contract and a guarantee of a plant. None of that's in play when someone just calls or emails or whatever.

Something else, take a look around at this forum. Notice the ads that run. This is a very high traffic forum. It may feel at times like it's a small group of folks, but don't let that fool you. It is very public and very open here. So, don't be surprised when people take up for their friends. I would expect no less. Many of us do consider a number of sellers of daylilies to be friends because they're not in it for the money (you've read some of Bob's posts, surely!)...and the longer you play in this hobby, the more you'll appreciate just all the effort that goes into it...and the more you'll get to know people yourself. People say things, usually because they just don't know (although they think they do), that I can guarantee in a few years...when they realize...that they'll wish they could take back.

Count me in, for instance, on that issue of postage...remember that one? I'm the one who said sellers don't charge enough. I came to that because when I actually did it...I found out just how hard and how much work it was. Opened my eyes! Of course, if you would have had asked me some eight years or so ago, I probably would have said...then...that yes, shipping is high...ha. Little did I know! I thought I knew, though...

Something else I didn't get was your mentioning having to add 10-20 daylilies to at least meet the minimum. Huh? Some sellers do have minimums but it's usually like $35-$50...which, as we know, goes pretty quickly with just a few daylilies. What did you mean? Many sellers don't have minimums...but, I can certainly understand those that do...see above and postage, etc....it's just not worth most people's time for $5 or so.

For me, when I look at someone's daylily offerings, I don't ever assume that it means those are all available right this minute. I'll make my choices and then contact them. We'll see what we can work out. It's a fluid thing and many things influence it. I've been to daylily farms and made choices after looking at display beds...and they're out of some. I don't get mad about it. I either try to find it somewhere else or I might ask them put me on a list for next year. Whatever.

You sound like a very organized and together person...and that's great! I'm one of those people who has trouble keeping a spreadsheet up to date, so you can see why I wouldn't be able to get listings up to date! Shoot, I don't even have last year's photos organized (don't even ask about previous years) and it'll be time to start taking this year's before I know it.

I just do the best I can...and try to enjoy the process. Down the road, it might be nice if some of my seedlings do something spectacular...and maybe even a few will be worthy of registering...and even, who knows, selling. But, gosh, I hope people would give me the benefit of the doubt, if something should ever arise. So, that's what I try...I'm just human...to remember when something happens to me.

And happen it does, you know? Hey, it's okay...keep hunting (maybe start earlier...you got that, right?)...save some money from this year, if that's an issue...and use it to do your buying this fall. You did say at one point that you didn't have the money to just buy at will or something like that...but then, you did mention some big numbers like 1k or 2k....that's why I thought that maybe you might just tuck some away....visit and learn some more...and make some even better choices this fall. That's the thing, you just always keep learning things about daylilies...and what you thought you just had to have this year...in a year or two, you'll want something else.

Better luck with your next orders!

I see both sides of this issue. I completely understand that many of the smaller sellers have limited supply of many cultivars, and I understand that it is quite possible to sell out early in the year of some varieties. Fine.
BUT, I can relate to the frustration that Nancy feels.
Personally, I started my ordering process a long time ago.
It takes me a while to research varieties that I am interested in. I check every source I can think of to make sure they do well in my area and have the attributes I am looking for. I try to find as many photos as possible for comparison. Then I take my lists and have to narrow them down to what I can really buy at this time. THEN I spend a lot of time trying to find vendors who sell my choices AND I spend a bit of time checking up on those vendors too. This may not always be the case when I have trust built up with vendors as the years go by. After all of this time,
when I am happy with my choices and vendors, I do e-mail for availability and it is so darn frustrating if they are sold out of several choices so early in the season.

Large or small, how hard is it to update your website with a simple "sold out" for those varieties? I know I ordered from a fairly small nursery a few weeks ago and I noticed her site was updated recently indicating those sold out.
I am asking because I really don't know, is it that much work to update your web site on a regular basic as a simple courtesy to your customers? It would save a lot of headache and frustration.
Who cares how you fill out your order form, what difference does that make?

abbydales, if your computer is turned on, it takes about 20 seconds to edit a web page, deleting the price of a cultivar and typing "SOLD" in its place. It takes another minute or two to transfer the corrected web page to your web host's server. You would have to multiply the 20 seconds by the number of cultivar prices that need changing. To upload your entire website to the server only requires a minute or so to access the server. You simply start the file transfer and walk away while the transfer is being completed.

If any of you need any help with learning how to edit your web pages, send me an e-mail and I'll be glad to try and help you.

Nancy

Abbydales,
If a vendor maintains his/her own website, it shouldn't be that hard to regularly update the status of availability. But you have to remember that this is the time of year they are weeding, mulching and hybridizing in greenhouses. They are unlikely to do daily updates - even if they have access to their websites. Monthly updates are about the best you can expect. The other problem is that most sellers have paid some other webmaster to update and maintain. For example, Daylilies Of the World at one time built and maintained a high percentage of daylily vendors' websites. Those who bought that service had one of two types of contracts. One that allowed a once-a-year update, and another pricier contract that permitted more frequent updates. Those who have Eureka websites are not given the option to update, and they have to turn in their price list by September of each year.

Debra

Debra, the limitations of Eureka guide listings and of having a vendor create and operate web sites for many sellers have already been mentioned multiple times. I don't think Nancy wants to acknowledge that....Nancy, my deep apologies if I'm misinterpreting, but that's the way your posts read to me.

Yes, lynxe, you are misinterpreting and I believe you are implying that you somehow are capable of reading my mind. Why? I don't even know you, and you certainly don't know me.

lynxe, when you stop attacking me over and over in posts for having essentially said that daylily vendors need to keep their websites updated, then I'll think about accepting your apology.

BTW, among the four vendors who were unable to supply a goodly number of what I had tried to order, only one uses Eureka. The rest all have their own websites.

You don't have to pay a webmaster to make minor changes to the text on your web pages. Even if you had a webmaster build a website for you, that doesn't keep you from editing your text. In fact, once he/she completes your website, you should have a copy of the entire site. It's yours. You paid for it, and it's best to keep a copy of it on your computer, so you can make necessary changes. Changing text is easy. You don't have to know code to do that.

Nancy

"when you stop attacking me over and over in posts for having essentially said that daylily vendors need to keep their websites updated, then I'll think about accepting your apology"

I wouldn't bother taking the time to think about it too long.:) It's not important. :)))

People here been trying to give you pointers on ordering so that you can get the plants that you so obviously would really like in your garden. I've even offered to provide lists to you. You've ignored most of the comments and suggestions, which is fine of course; you should do whatever you want to do. But if you decide to continue using the same practices to order next year that you have this time, you'll probably be disappointed again. As I said: Your choice of course. Just bear in mind: some people here have been ordering for quite a number of years, and their ideas & suggestions could have helped you out.

"among the four vendors who were unable to supply a goodly number of what I had tried to order, only one uses Eureka. The rest all have their own websites."

Since this issue really bothers you, you might think about taking it up with the sellers who've disappointed you, rather than with us. We're not the web site owners, and there's nothing we can do about it.