BrianLanning People will give you advice about various things, so I'll do some little ones. Before you put your lights in place, you might consider suspending them high enough from the table-surface to accommodate relatively tall plants, maybe 18 inches. Then, instead of worrying about raising and lowering the light, get some stable materials (wooden blocks or old books etc.) that you can use initially to elevate your seedlings up toward the lights where they need to be. This also accommodates seedlings that grow at different rates and are different heights. As they grow, you can remove the supports in layers to lower the plants and still have the tops of the seedlings close to the light. Don't worry about not saving those yoghurt cups! :-) Many of us use large and small plastic or styrofoam drink-cups (buy them in sleeves for $1 at dollar stores) to transfer seedlings into until they're ready to be set into the garden. Make sure you also have a way to mark your seedlings -- with 2-3 people working around a lot of seedlings, you need to know they won't get mixed up. We've had many cries of distress over the years from those who didn't mark their seedlings and somebody or something messed up the order! That's why I like the styrofoam cups. They're easy to write on with a ballpoint pen (pressing down so if the ink fades later you can still read the indentation). But the plastic cups work just as well for seedlings and you can put labels in the seedling soil for marking them. As for where to buy seeds, you need to make your garden plan first, decide what you want to grow, how much for your large family, etc. I'd order the seeds right away as soon as that's done. Depending on what you want to grow, there are several seed companies that you may find please you more than the large ones that sell seeds in the big box stores. (Though most of us buy seeds whenever we see something we want.) Some of the smaller reputable seed companies sell mainly one crop, like beans or tomatoes or potatoes or onions. Other reputable companies carry a variety of seeds, often very handy for gardeners just getting started, though the number of varieties of seeds is not as large as the "specialty" seed vendors. Just do a GardenWeb search for seed vendors that carry various seeds that you know you'll want. They all have on-line catalogs that you can access. And of course you can purchase whatever you see that you want in local stores. By going to various GardenWeb forums, like Tomatoes, or Beans, etc., you can read what varieties of vegetables people like and where they buy the seeds. GW also has seed exchanges that you can access from each forum for open pollinated vegetables and herbs. To access the seed exchange forums, see this at the top of each forum page just above where the threads start: Messages: On-Topic Discussions [Switch to: Exchanges : Gallery : Conversations] Click on "Exchanges".

Hi Julia, The heat mat is under the soaking seeds and the cups. It is mostly for the seeds - I don't always have room for the cups to be on it but if I do I leave them on there until I move them downstairs. I do put drainage holes in the bottom- about 4 per cup. Make sure you find tall cups. I poke them with a Kabob skewer thingy. It is very important to do that. It is much better to water them from the bottom if you can. This helps keeps the fungus gnats from taking over. They like the wet soil to lay their eggs in. If the tops are dry they stay away. Also the cups need to drain. If they are too wet you will lose your seedlings to damping off. I found watering the hardest part last year. It can be tricky. If the seeds had just germinated I always wanted to water from the top a bit because there wasn't long roots to soak up from the bottom but maybe I worried about this too much. I've learned it is probably better to keep things on the dry side rather than too wet. I also started a weak fertilizer solution after a few weeks as promix has nothing in it food wise. Thanks for the comments on my photos. I have dates on the seedlings outside but not the ones inside. It really doesn't take very long before they start growing. I started some in December and the rest in February.I didn't really notice a difference. The tets grow bigger than the dips and I tried to not put as many in one cup- sometimes only 2 tets sometimes up to 5 dips. It is more the depth they need for roots than the distance around. Mine all got leggy last year even under lights but it was the great roots that helped them outside. The long leaves all died anyways and new ones grew as soon as they were planted. They got pretty beat up being moved around outside while I hardened them off. It didn't matter one bit. I found the promix really good for separating them when I was transplanting. They just came apart so easily. The cups are a bit of a pain to deal with when you get moving them in and out( they tend to fall over) but I couldn't find tall 4" pots and I think the styrofoam actually helped insulate them a bit and keep them the same temp. I am trying a few plastic beer cups this winter - they hold a bit more soil but I can still fit 18 in a watering tray. It's really lots of fun. Good Luck. Debbie

I've linked a thread below from last year that covers the planting of cool-season crops. For each crop, I've tried to give the temperature range during which they perform the best. Between the info in it and the info in the Oklahoma Garden Planning Guide, you should be able to figure out when to plant indoors or out in your part of the state. If you have any questions after reading it, just post them and we'll try to answer. Linked within that old thread is a link to Tom Clothier's vegetable seed germination data base. When you look at it, you will notice that each variety has a temperature at which optimal germination occurs. It is very helpful data, but because our weather often goes from 'too cold' to 'too hot' seemingly overnight, you cannot wait for the optimal germination conditions for all cool-season crops or you'll be putting the seed into the ground too late. If you so choose, you can start virtually anything and everything indoors. However, root crops are not real crazy about being transplanted, so with those, if you start them indoors, you should use a plantable pot of some sort. You can use soil blocks (Carol can tell you about them if you have questions), peat pellets, coir pellets, peat pots, cowpots (made from cow manure) or paper cups with the bottoms cut out (this allows the root crop to grow right down through the bottom of the cup without having to fight its way through the paper portion) or cardboard tubes, like those you get with rolled paper products like paper towels, wrapping paper and toilet paper. Keep in mind that starting seeds successfully indoors generally requires a light shelf, although some people may have sunny windows with a southern exposure that allows for seeds to be started on the window sill. Also, everything started indoors is not exposed to wind and sun, so must be very carefully hardened off before being planted in the ground, and that can be a labor-intensive process. Also, in our climate we often are hardening-off indoor-raised seedlings just when are winter and spring winds are at their highest levels, and it is difficult at times to shelter the plants well enough that they survive being hardened off. Here's what I usually do with the crops you listed: BEETS: Direct sow in the ground in early February' BASIL: Start seeds indoors around or shortly after the time I start tomato and pepper seeds, which usually is Super Bowl weekend. Transplant into the ground in April. BROCCOLI: I usually start the seeds indoors in late Feb. or early March and transplant into the ground when the plants are almost 5 weeks old, but the timing varies depending on how cold it is outside. With broccoli, I have better luck planting it just a tiny bit late, and almost no luck if I plant too early, but that might be because of my extra-cold microclimate. CANTALOUPE: Start seeds inside in April and put into ground when soil temps are at the right range for them, which means early May most years. CUCUMBERS: Start seeds inside in March or direct sow in April CARROTS: These can be quite vexing. I usually direct sow them in March or April, but it varies a lot from year to year depending on what the soil temps are. I have started them inside both in cardboard tubes and bottomless paper cups and transplanted them out, but didn't get an earlier crop of a larger crop despite that, so am not sure it is helpful. CHIVES: Are perennial here in our garden, so once you plant them, you'll likely have them forever. The first year I planted them, I sowed seed directly into the ground in January and the plants sprouted almost immediately. They are ridiculously easy to grow and I am careful to not allow them to go to seed, or the volunteers will pop up everywhere in large numbers. DILL: I direct sow this in February or March. It is another one that is ridiculously easy. Just plant the seed and it will grow, and it does better in the cool season than the hot season. LETTUCE: I start inside in January and transplant outside in February. I hope to sow seeds of lettuce into a flat tomorrow while it is raining here. Lettuce is very easy, and I transplant the plants out while they are still very tiny--just a few days old. OKRA: A true heat lover that will germinate very slowly in cold soil, if at all. I usually start okra seed inside in plantable pots in April and transplant outside after the soil is good and warm and all danger of a late frost is past, which for me means about the end of the first week of May. ONIONS, COOKING: I usually plant them no later than mid-February. I am hoping to plant my onions today. ONIONS, GREEN: Like chives, are ridiculously easy from seed. You can plant them inside in flats in early January or direct sow them in January or February. Either way works just fine. SUGAR SNAP PEAS: I am careful with these because there's no point in planting them too early if late freezes are going to set them back. I start them indoors in early March and transplant them outside in mid- through late-March in a warm winter, or in late-March through early April in a colder winter. Getting an early start when possible is nice, but temps below freezing can freeze back the growing tips or knock the blossoms off the plants even after they've been in the ground a month or more, so I am careful not to put them out too early. To get the best harvest possible here, I need to be harvesting them in May before the onset of serious heat in June. I usually pull them out in June and replace them with something else. PEPPERS: I start their seed indoors along with tomatoes on Super Bowl Sunday in an average year. Since this is a warmer than average winter, I hope to sow pepper seeds into flats tomorrow. I started tomato seeds in flats (some of them, I still have others to do) over the weekend, and already have tiny plant sprouts emerging from the soil. While tomatoes tolerate cold air temps right down close to freezing, peppers are not as cold-tolerant, so I usually put tomato plants into the ground in March or early April and then plant pepper plants from 2 to 4 weeks later depending on what my soil temps and air temps are doing outside. Peppers, and especially hot peppers, that are exposed to temperatures that are too cold for their liking will not necessarily die, but often remain stunted and unproductive for months, so I don't transplant them early. PINTO BEANS: Cannot tolerate cold soil temps or air temps so plant these only after the danger of frost is past, usually in April. POTATOES: Very cold hardy while underground, but tender foliage can be frozen back repeatedly by late frosts. I usually plant these in a deep trench in the ground in February, filling in the trench gradually as the plants grow, mulch them very well to keep the ground warm in cold weather and add more mulch as hotter weather approaches, and always have floating row cover on hand to cover up potato plants if freezing temps are forecast. Last year we had a hard freeze the first week of May and my potato plants were from 18-36" tall. I have no doubt they would have frozen back to the ground had I not covered them up. You will get the best production from potatoes planted at the time recommended in the planning guide, but you can get away with planting later as long as you mulch the beds well to keep the soil cooler. The drawback to planting potatoes late is that you're already digging them in pretty hot weather even if you plant on time, so if you plant them later than recommended, you'll be digging them in really hot temps, which is no fun at all. Radishes: Direct-sow beginning in late January or early February, and sow new crops every week or two. It is better to sow a handful of seeds weekly for a staggered harvest than to sow 200 radish seeds at once, and then have to eat all those radishes in a very short time. Most people plant radish seed too close together and then wait too late to thin them. If you thin radish seed too late, they won't form radishes...just fibrous roots. You should thin the radishes when they are just barely out of the ground. SPINACH: In our erratic spring weather, I often do not get a good spinach crop because we get too hot too early. I direct-seed it in March, or save it for a fall planting. SWEET POTATOES: If you are raising your own slips inside in sand, you can start in February or March depending on your confidence level, and have slips to plant in late April or early May. You can plant them even later, but it is best to get them in the ground in southern OK no later than mid-May for optimal production. If you are buying slips, you probably won't see them in stores until April or early May. TOMATO: These can be started indoors in February to be transplanted into the ground in late March or early April. If you want larger plants at transplanting time, start your seed in January. We often have late cold spells around Easter, and occasional frosts as late as the first week in May, so be prepared to cover them up on any night when a freeze might be possible. I have had my tomato plants freeze back to the ground on a night when the forecast was for a low of 50 and the actual low hit 32, so take your forecasts with a grain of salt. I always look at my temperature shortly before sunset once I have tomato plants in the ground and if it seems lower than it ought to be at sunset, I run outside and throw row covers over the plants. I should be able to put tomato plants in the ground here the last week in March, but because of our low-lying area and its tendency to go colder than expected, I often wait until the first or second week of April. Some people who are much farther north than I am likely can plant in late March if they are not in a low-lying area. If you will watch this forum, you'll see many of us 'announcing' things like "I planted my peas outside today" or whatever, and you can use that as your guide. When the folks down south are putting seeds or transplants in the ground, that's a clue to those farther north that their planting time is rapidly approaching. Keep in mind too that portions of eastern OK warm up about the same time as southern OK, so gardeners there sometimes can plant a bit earlier than a southern gardener in a low-lying area where the cold hangs on a little bit. You just have to experiement and see what works best for you. Hope this helps, Dawn Here is a link that might be useful: Tips on Planting Cool Season Crops

I was just reading your profile Catman. You sound a lot like my late brother. That is a good thing. He was always in the air if not trying to figure out a better way for planning the garden or growing something new. first time for me on this forum so I wouldn't have missed you. Glad you posted. I am in the middle of western Canada in a zone 4ish. I love growing tomatoes although I don't know how good at it I am. Still practicing. I was doing my seed inventory to William Shatner's Weird Or What marathon on New Year's Eve and seem to have misplaced my 125 pkg. tomato seed baggie!!! Oh dear!! I'm sure it will show up somewhere soon so in the meantime I am going to order a few varieties I don't have and have been wanting to try. there is a seed house here that specializes in northern hardy vegie seeds and has a few varieties of tomatoes I want to try. Just curious what your favorite varieties are where you live? When I find my stash, I will sure trade if you are still interested. :) Ginny