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birdsnblooms

Aloe/Haworthia/Gasteria???

birdsnblooms
15 years ago

I won two succulents on Ebay, but can't ID. The seller wasn't sure either. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks,

{{gwi:519538}}

Thanks so much...Toni

Comments (32)

  • joscience
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Both seem like hybrids to me. I'd guess the top is Aloe x Gasteria and the bottom is Aloe x Haworthia.

    I really like both of them, as they look like freakish versions of Gasteria or Haworthia respectively. The Aloe just makes 'em bigger and thicker! Nice plants, thanks for sharing!

  • norma_2006
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wait for the flowers, Norma

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  • birdsnblooms
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi Jo...The truth is I'm really confused (ignorant) about hybrids (Eg) Aloe x Gasteria, etc..Does it mean, two different plants make a hybrid? a clone? From different families? I don't understand how it'd works..lol.
    Is is similar to say African Violets?
    Let's say an Aloe flowers,(female) and a Gasteria flowers,(male) OR visa versa. The Aloe flower is then brushed/polinated from the Gasteria flower..Is that how a hybrid is made/created?
    The same with Alow x Haworthia?
    With African Violets, two violets are used, (one as male, the other female) not an AV and a Philodendron.
    Using aloe and haworthia, sounds like breeding a cat and dog..lol.

    The seller of Gasteria/Aloe typed: 'Gasteria hybrid species.' Beneath the heading he added, Gasteria or Aloe hybrid species. So you're 100% correct about species.

    The second seller typed in, Aloe 'type' plant. He may be right, but the plant reminds me of Haworthia. I admit I'm no expert ID'ing succulents. So, it could be an aloe, haworthia or gasteria. Though, correct me if I'm wrong, aren't Gasterias small plants? Under 8"?

    Thanks for the compliment. Now if they keep their nice appearance throughout winter.

    Since you enjoyed my pics, might as well add a few more succulents received yesterday and today.. :)
    They may not be rare to most here, but I've never seen such unusual plants..
    Jo thanks for responding.

    {{gwi:519537}}

    {{gwi:690118}}

    {{gwi:690119}}

    The last two Aloes have been with us 4+ yrs, in dire need of repotting. I have no idea what species they are, how big they get, or if they're Aloes. I'm assuming they haven't put on much growth because they're entirely rootbound, though both were tiny, babies the day they followed me home..bought locally.

    Anyway, thanks again, Toni

  • calif_sue
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Nice collection. Your second image isn't a succulent though, it's a Zonal Geranium, genus & species Pelargonium x hortorum possibly the cultivar 'Skies of Italy'.

  • norma_2006
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Tony, I have your hybrids under different names , So I don't know what name to tell you. The grower can give them any name they choose. Each seed that grows can be given a different name. But the babies that come off of them, should be given the same name. Name them what you want, enjoy. Norma

  • philofan
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi hopefulauthor,

    In answer to your questions, two different species, or two different hybrid plants crossed with each other become a new 'hybrid'.

    A hybrid between plants from two different genera are called a 'bigeneric cross' (i.e. gasteraloe or aloeworthia).

    Yes, hybrids are created by pollen from one parent, brushed on the flower of another which forms seed (and called the 'pollen parent').

    The resulting plants from the same cross are called a 'grex', which often have variations between them. Hybridizers will typically pick the best plant from that. So technically, a cross between two plants will not always be the same.

    'Clone' refers to a plant with unique characteristics that sets it apart from others, which could be from the same grex or a 'sport' offset. These plants are different enough to warrant a new name. I think of the aechmea chantinii clones in their many variations.

    Hope this help clarify things.

    -Tom

  • Denise
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The 2nd pic looks like my Gastrolea cv. 'Big Dick' (a name that makes me giggle...) If you look it up, you'll find there are several hybrids by this grower, including cv. 'Big Dick's Daughter'.

    I think the first one may be a Gasteria crossed with one of the clones of Haworthia attenuata.

    Denise in Omaha

  • norma_2006
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I just want to caution you that the plant with the spines, when it dropes it's leaves you must stop watering.
    Keep warm inside for the winter. Only water when new leaves come out in the spring. Norma

  • birdsnblooms
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Howdy..I typed replies, then was called outside..it's 53F in IL!
    While away from the puter, one of our birds landed on the keyboard, played with keys and deleted the entire page..Sheesh..

    Sue, the reason I added Pelargoniums was because it arrived in the plant order arrived that day. To be honest, I thought Pels/Geraniums were succulents. For years, I cared for Geraniums similiar to sux, mainly less water in winter.
    When we're blessed with sunny days in winter, they get 1/4 dose of fertilizer. Geraniums love flowering.
    I don't know the different between Zonal and seeded Geraniums. You have a good eye detecting genus and species. Naming 'Skies of Italy.' I'm hoping this type of Pel lives on. Do you think it will? Thanks.

    Norma. I agree 100%..breeders/sellers should give the correct name. For all plants. I typed out the names my sux were sold under, on this thread..If you have time, can you please type out the names you have? If it's too much work, don't worry about it.
    When you said, when thorny plants leaves drop not to water, were you talking about one certain plant or thorny plants in gerneral? Thanks.

    Tom, Whoa! lol..I read, reread, and will rereread again.
    How in the world do breeders remember all these names? lol..
    When and how is a hybrid officially named? Who makes the final decision if 'x' plant should be coined a new hybrid?
    Reading your response adds more sense to norma's post. If a plant is misnamed, (hybrids types) will be incorrect starting from breeder one down the line. Thanks for the explantion..it will sink in eventually..:)

    Denise, ROFL. It could be worse..Instead of Big, its name could be Tiny..hehe. Wonder who gave your plant its name!!
    Where do these names come from?
    You said the second pics looks like your Gastrolea..So, your plant, and possibly mine, were crossed with a Gastera and which other plant? Or am I getting this all wrong?
    I'm still baffled..So, everyone is saying, two plants are used..It's possible for let's say, a Gasteria and an Aloe? Does this not contradict nature?
    For instance, it's stated two dogs of different breeds shouldn't be bred..So, it's usually Rott w/Rott, shephard w/shephard, even though people are now breeding Poodles with Schnauzers, calling them Schoodles..lol. I wonder if the AKA recognizes Schnoodles as a special breed??
    Sorry, didn't mean to add canines to the thread, but that was the only example that came to mind.
    I wonder how hybrids were thought? Who was the first person to hybridize? Know what I mean? What is the reason it's done? Is a hybrid as, let' say, important as a non-hybrid?
    Another example is..lol..There's a macaw (parrot) called Catalina. It's a hybrid between Blue & Gold, and Scarlet Macaws. When people hear 'hybrid' they act like there's a problem with this bird. Because of their reasoning, the price of a Catalina is far less than one of its parents.
    Does this apply to hybrid plants, too?
    Thanks for all your help. Toni

  • pirate_girl
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hey Toni,

    My curiosity requires that I ask, on the Macaws, crossing a Blue & Gold w/ a Scarlet, what color is the progeny?? Curious minds need to know!!!

    (PG) Karen

  • pirate_girl
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yikes Toni,

    All I did was ask their color, I wasn't looking for all that. Feel a bit like I've been clobbered over the head. Unprovoked & necessary. I was just curious abt the resultant colors.

    Expressed no interest getting one or any of that. Geez.

  • norma_2006
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    And I want to thank you for the thorough information. I just learned something today, and not to old to learn. I think the first Gasteria may be G. pulchra, check it out, don't take my word for it. It looks like mine, Norma

  • birdsnblooms
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    LOL Karen..I'm sooo sorry..Really I am..
    It's weird you asked the color of a Catalina macaw.
    The thing is, there's a woman who lives in the next town. A very materialistic woman.
    Knowing I have/breed birds, she phoned this wkend to ask if I knew a breeder selling large parrots..But she didn't want a pet, nope, she wanted a bird of certain 'colors' to match her FURNITURE!!!
    So, when you asked a Catalina's color, it wasn't that I thought you were going to run out, buy a bird to match your living room curtains..it reminded me of this woman..
    This is the second time someone asked if I knew of a bird breeder to match their darn furniture..sheesh.

    So, Karen, PLEASE accept my apology..when it comes to pets, I get very emotional. hugs, Toni

  • norma_2006
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I certainly will, of any plants that look like those, if it gets in the hundreds forget it. I don't think that they should even be distributed unless the mother and father are known. These may be f2 f3 f4 regects. I do not do this at all, I take off the flower stalk before it can happen. Preventive propagation is the best way. The Huntington will alwasys put on a the X names if they know them . 'Doran Black' my favorite X I don't believe that the parents are known. We don't do much intergenertic Xing. Much of this happens by the hummingbirds, Norma

  • birdsnblooms
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Karen, I hope you're not angry with me for ranting about macaws..:)

    Norma, what??? lol..Was your post directed to me? lol
    What is f3, f3, and f4? (other than Function Keys?) And why are they rejects? Poor plants.
    What is 'intergenertic' Xing? lol. I'm sorry, but I don't understand, and no, I don't drink or do drugs..lol
    You said, if it gets in the 100's forget it? HUH? lol
    Which plant/s are we talking about?

    Norma, in one post you said, you learned something today..what were you referring to?

    BTW, I Googled G. pulchra but the pics look nothing like mine..There weren't many photos though..maybe I should Yahoo instead of Google..
    One pic had deep variegation, the foliage was almost all white. Beautiful.

    Does anyone know of a site that has pics of Haworthias, Gasterias and Aloes? Thanks, Toni

  • pirate_girl
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Desert-tropicals.com will have many images of those plants. Or, just do a search, then w/in those results, click on Images, which will isolate it to sites w/ pix.

  • norma_2006
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Tom I'm so glad that youu responded with our information if is quiet accurate and explained nicely. I didn't say it was pulchra, mine is a young plant and Tonies' looks younger, wait for the flowers, if hybrids they are not a species. Gasteria take about 3 years to mature, and I believe yours will get quit large, I can list all of the hybrid names, my rosette is Gasrolia Helen Hageyi, there are several hundred more but not named. (spelling may not be correct) I can't read the label I didn't write it.
    Toni does the leaves have raised dots? It could be a X with several different hybrids, of species. It could have G. disticha x G. Batesiana x Gasteria v. verrucosa or a few others as grandparents, and aunts, uncles, broothers, etc. Sorry I coulnd't be of help, Norma

  • norma_2006
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I was just grateful for the full response. That certainly isn't a crime, I am a novice when it comes to birds, so the information was very informative to me, I didn't feel overwhelmed. What if to Toni question regarding the plants, I said

    " They are green plants and will get flowers." I don't think that response would be satisfactory. Some people ask what plant is this. I am inclined to say a 'green one. If I do that to any one I would not blame you to be furious with me. I really didn't know that McCaws had different coloring patterns. I guess they are like plants. Depends on the breeding and luck. There must be more than one species? Thanks, Norma

    For the person who asked if they bred three different plants to gether what color would she get, I must say this tongue in check they would pick up some dna of each parent, more less, plant them first, see if they grow, give them the proper care and brag a heck of a lot if you get something special. It's just not that easy to do casual breeding and have any thing turn out good enough to keep.
    Do I need to tell you the story of my son and his four children. Well I won't. Norma

  • birdsnblooms
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Merry Christmas/Hanukkah & Happy New Years's.
    I hope everyone had a wonderful holiday. Now that 2009's approaching, I pray we all have a better New Year and years to come.

    Norma, you asked if dots were raised...Yes, they are..Raised, white dots on both but not as raised as some types of Hawortias.

    The conservatory have beautiful Haworthias w/huge white dots..even the babies dots are larger than those on mine. lol..
    Norma you know quite a bit about sux..Would you happen to know the name of the Haworthia that has black dots? They too are raised. It's a stunning plant.
    The conservatory had a few (black dots) tucked behind a metal grill, no name..I asked one employee but he had no idea what they were, lol, and we didn't see anyone else to ask..That is one Haworthia I'd love to add.

    Norma, I can't ID names of 'X/hybrids'. There's way too many..worse, many look 'almost' identical. I still can't distinguish Christmas vs Thanksgiving Cactus, even though I've seen several pictures showing the difference. Guess I don't have an eye for detail like some..sigh.

    Norma, macaws/parrots come in a variety of colors..
    I'm sure you've seen parakeets..Keets are part of the parrot family, too. Just a lot smaller..lol. Yes, you got it..Like plants, keets are bred for color (America) and size (England.) Though I believe both countries are now breeding for both qualities.

    Hey, if you feel like revealing the story of your son and his four children, (congrats) please do so.

    One day I'd like to try breeding African Violets. All it takes are two plants, call one female, the other male, and voila, seeds/babies.
    I wonder how sux are hybridized. Do you know? It'd be a great experiment. Although it's probable every succulent known to man has been crossed at one time or another..trial and error, error and retrial.

    Norma, thanks for responding. Can't wait until spring/longer daylight when plants come to life. It's pretty barren in IL right now..
    Only 4 types of plants bloom here in winter..Crown of Thorns, Hibiscus, African Violets and Geraniums. Gardenias put out a flower or two, but not nearly as large as they are during summer.

    Take care, and have a safe New Year's Eve..too much drink, wake with a headache..(known proverb) lol..hugs, Toni

  • norma_2006
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hybrid by Ed Hummel 'Gold Cup' a perfect example of an intergernic breeding we belive by accident.
    We are still talking about the inquiry above ???? above, you requested names, I am only responding to questions regarding the above.
    F1 first breeding F2 second breeding back to a relative to bring out features, F3 back again perhaps to bring out a color. etc. depending what the hybridzer want to accomplish. I'm not even going to try and correct mistakes, that is why I lost the last response. Norma

  • norma_2006
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Response to question posted. On Aloe or Gasteria ??? Perhaps Hawarthia scabra which needs a lot of sun. I hope we are on the same page on this one. Norma

  • norma_2006
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Dear confused Toni, I learned something about the big bird, so you are saying the breeding doesn't make them look like their parents, that the arrangement of color can be different, like breeding different cats. Two different colors what do we get? I hope some of each, or a different color like my Somali she was not like her brothers or sisters. So the birds are not all exactly alike even though the same breed with a pedigree? How many eggs do they lay at one time? You asked, Norma

  • norma_2006
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    There are two species that look like each other, even the Huntington gets them mixed up, this may be Aloe harliana ISI 2001. Check it out Norma

  • norma_2006
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    What are sux? I don't know this abbreviation. ? My son 3 children of his first marriage,( wife with bright red hair) One kid had blond, one blue eyes, one dark brown hair, one bright I kid had red hair , and one total black hair his 2nd wife is Japanese. But the child looks like him. Go figure.
    None of us are God how do we know how any one thing is going to turn out.
    May cats sister is Lavander, she is beige, brother is a red. He was breeding for beige. He didn't get a litter of all one color. Karen does this answer your question?

    I think all mammals have the same problem, who is the father, what is the kid going to look like, who will they take after, none of my children had their faters's brillence. One had his blue eyes, one child brown eyes then turned dark green, they all change as they get olders, and really is that of any importance.
    I have a article for you or Christmas cactus, Thanksgiving cactus, and Eastern cactus I will send it to you, send me your address privately. I have an extra Scraba. Crasulady2

  • norma_2006
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You need DNA to acturatally ID plants. Most are bastards,
    there are only 24 known species at this time that I know of and they they still change there identifications, and find new ones. All plants started out milliions of years ago, and evolved like we did. No records have been recorded at that time. I have 24 species, and 200 hybrids, which is better? it's a matter of opinion. I like the ones that look different and have character. Bumpy ,Lumpy, twisted, smooth, frilled, montrose, purple, pink, black, spirelled, narrow leave, wide fat leaves, for instance Which ones are your favorites? I love my 'Van Damn.' I love 'Optima' I love 'Aramastou' spelling? Botantist want the plant documentated as to parents at least. Birth Certificates required at this time. LOL LOL or they are worth nothing and put down, unless they are handsome, or beautiful. Just like cats and dogs. Norma

  • norma_2006
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Gosh I am sorry about those abbrev. I think most people on this forum know more than I do. Thanks for asking.

    Example for Beginners: Haworthis scabra var. scabra HBG TBA (to be announced) ex K.Z. ex CSSA Sale 7/1/03
    ex Pat Fusaro ex Burk's
    Dark clumping form with glossy pearls. Part sun, more than other Haws. Light Frost, example of almost a complete documentation. Doesn't say the collector, who described the plant nor where exactly collected. Does not give the date that the Huntington received the plant. It was described in 1829 Haworth, and several other varieties (sorida) have been found since. Mine has long leaves, and hardly any raised tubericles.

    Information: they are doing a lot of hybridizing to obtain new different plants and breeding of species as well from our own seed, we cannot bring plants in from the wild any more. Heavy fines. Norma

  • citosa
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Norma, there are different species of macaws. One of them is the "blue and gold" macaw, another is called "scarlet" macaw, and there are others, too. When you breed a scarlet macaw with a scarlet macaw, all the progeny will look like the parents. But when you breed two different species together, you get a hybrid, and often you don't know how it'll look until its feathers come in. Much like crossing plants of different species, really.

    Sometimes, though, there'll be a mutation that'll give a bird a different colour than it's parents, like a plant with variegated leaves, or a different colour flower. It's different from a hybrid, and people will often try to get more birds like it through selective breeding. That's how there are so many different colours of parakeets, a.k.a. budgerigars. The genes that give a bird a different colour, or decide which colour hair or eyes we humans have, are really very simple, if you look into it.

  • pirate_girl
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This is why I asked abt what color those Macaws would be. I knew a bit abt Macaws, certainly that they come in those particular colors (didn't know they were diff. species tho'), I was curious what colors would come up, esp. from a color & genetics perspective.

    My best friend (of 30 yrs.) has various parrots including Macaws she got several years ago. I know they can live as long as people & that getting Macaws represents a serious commitment (my parents had a friend who had a Macaw for decades).

    Actually she sent out as a Christmas card, a photo of her Blue & Gold Macaw perched on a little toy cart he likes to ride.

  • birdsnblooms
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Norma, lol, you are hilarious..
    Sux = succulents..sorry, I shouldn't be so lax, just type out the darn word.
    How did you get away with typing bast*** in your post? Does GW not consider this word vulgarity? A few wks ago, I typed the word bi*ch in a post, after clicking submit, a window opened warning that word wasn't permitted. IMO, b**ch, 'like bast**d' have a few definitions, one meaning a female dog..yet it was denied. hmm..

    Regarding parrots/macaws, Citosa pretty much explained.
    The last 15 years, I bred Cockatiels. Are you familiar with this bird? They're larger than parakeets, but smaller than, a breadbox..lol, j/k, I don't know which bird to compare to..Let's say from head to tip of tail, they're at least 9". Some a little larger, others smaller.
    On top of a cockatiels' head is a crest. Did you ever see the bird on the show Barreta/Baretta..sp is incorrect. Baretta has a Cockatoo..if you ever saw this bird, you might recall he too has a crest..the crest sometimes stands erect, especially when a bird is excited or frightened.

    Anyway, when we bred cockatiels, (not a big business, more of a hobby and to help people who couldn't afford big-time prices.) One pair, description. Male/common gray..his body, mostly gray, some white, gray and white wings..cheek, circles of bright orange.
    Female/white-face-pearl..no orange..mottled gray and white from head to bottom.
    Cockatiels can lay anywhere from 1-10 eggs..ours averaged 4-6.. Per every clutch/eggs laid, 1-2 were all yellow babies..some had orange cheecks, others were w/o.
    The remining chicks mostly looked like dad, but every so often, one resembled mom.
    My other pair are white face pied/male, and white face pearl/female..Gray babies are without orange..
    His wife is number 3..he's outlived, and hope he lives another 20 yrs, 2 wives. Number one was a Cinnamon gray..when they had babies, most were gray w/light orange cheeks, males had deep orange cheeks.
    The first couple mentioned, somewhere along the line, an all yellow male or female/yellow = Lutino, got in the act..lol.

    Norma, now for plants, lol, a good number of my succulents are what you call, bast***s..lol..problem is, I do not know their ID's..
    I get mixed up with Alow/Haworthia, and yucca/pandanus..
    One succulent bought locally looks like hanging baby aloes..It was only a year or two ago I found it was a Sanseveria. Do you know which Sans I'm referring to?

    Thanks for the help..btw, why Blue & Gold bred with Scarlet macaws produce orange and blue Catlalina's is an enigma..The DNA maker knows for sure..lol..Toni

  • norma_2006
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi Happy New Year, perhps Ballyi 1268l now called a fake name of 'Minnie's very old species of the San. suffruticosa group. Other groups have other hanging type Sansevieria. S phillipsiae, another old species and a few, more. Norma

  • birdsnblooms
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Norma, thanks..I Googled both names, but neither are my Sans..I'll display pics..
    The Phillipsiae's coloring was close though.
    One problem is, when this type of Sans is young they stand erect. Our dog, Sam, accidently stepped on a stem, breaking 3; each are rooting in soil.
    When solo or young, they look nothing like mature Sans.
    Originally, I assumed this Sans was an Aloe..if you pot up one Sans baby, set next to an Aloe, the resemblance is remarkable..

    Anyway, thanks again for the input.. :) Maybe you can come up with its name after seeing pics..
    I checked www.desert-tropical.com.. found nada..Toni

    {{gwi:80283}}

    Here's my Sans collection..plus the hanging type and a second Moon something or other..I gave my neice one Moon since she's taken interest in plants.

    I'd love finding a Gold H Sans..for some reason I kill them..had two, bought long ago, both are in Sans heaven. Come spring, or sooner, if I find one at a reasonable price I'll give it another try..They're beautiful..
    Norma, thanks so much, you've been extremely helpful. Toni