But Silica, oh but you do know me and have been around here long enough to know what I have done, said, and what my feelings are about CHC, let alone all the time I spend here.:-( We have met before on many occasions and you read here alot too, enough to see who I am for I do know you;-) ...................................................... Posted by silica (My Page) on Thu, Sep 9, 10 at 11:24 Last Spring I put several of my trees into the 4-1 CHC peat mix. The growth on these trees was absolutely fantastic, far surpassed my other citrus. Actually unbelieveable. Also it is very assureing that a citrus tree growing in a 4-1 CHC mix cannot be damaged from over watering. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- RE: Updated trees from Coconut Husk Chips to the 5.1.1 mix. Pictu clip this post email this post what is this? see most clipped and recent clippings Posted by meyermike_1micha 5 (My Page) on Thu, Sep 9, 10 at 12:21 That is the thing Silica.. Not that I am not happy for you, in fact proud of you.. But I have asked so many times for help to be able to grow them as you say you did, and there is rarely anyone to help! Where are the pictures of the trees, the close up shots of the CHC mix, the instructions, the fertilizer regimend you use, the step by step instructions, the suppliers, the evidence,the support...ect? Are we at the wrong forum for all the CHC experts and the pictures? Are you able to answer questions about nutritional defficiencies and how to correct them? How many did you loose over the years figuring the stuff out? Did you wash it? How do you keep the salts out? How do you keep the pH perfect? There might be many here that are still interested at giving it a try.. My plants would of died in that stuff by the time anyone could tell me what to do.. It is nice to know ...................................... I guess sometime forget. We have had many past conversations and at times nice, and at time have not agrred on certain things. I think you missed my whole point about thinking about giving it a try and being pushed back even further because people that have used CHC run from healthy debate and still have yet to prove the science behind it and support the evidence so that ones like me can be convinced or have a reason to use them once again or for the first time. I am not upset at what was said toward Al, no not at all, in fact he can defend himself, although I must admit I was a bit perturbed because I was not the only one that understood it the way I saw it, but I am dissapointed in the way the conversations end, like what you did, in which it is always the ones that use bark that continue to prove the superiority of it, and the ones that use CHC chips that leave. It sounds fishy to me, that's all. If you don't care what I use, then why are you here trying to convince us, me, others that CHC works better and advantages of it over bark? I know that people like Al care about what I use, and that is why I continue to follow those that do have a concern for my success and for what is really best for my trees. Not harm intended, no hard feelings, for as I said, I also respect you in your crusade to purswade others that CHC is the way to go, and I accept any misunderstandings. Have a great weekend nad thanks for your time. Thank you Jodi and thank you for your well said post too! Mike;-)

Can you let us know a bit about the temps it is living in?

Hmm. I just responded to another poster who has a citrus that also is failing to thrive. He posted that quite a lot of pine mulch, complete with wood chips, was mixed into the soil. I suggested that might be causing a nitrogen deficiency. Anyway, I can see in your pictures that the tree is heavily mulched with wood chips. Normally, if wood chips are on top of the ground they should not cause a problem . . . but I can see an awful lot of them in those pictures, and your tree is quite petite! Another possibility is that in applying the mulch you have smothered the tree's feeder roots. Someone with more familiarity with the cultural practices in your area should be able to help, but I would say that for such a small tree the mulch is probably not helping. In fact, it is probably hurting. For that matter, your problem may well be a combination of both possibilities! Think of it this way: a mulch ring three feet wide and two or three inches deep is usually fine for a tree that is ten feet tall and about the same diameter, but you have a tree that is about a foot high and wide and a mulch diameter of what looks like at least two feet. Thus, for its size, your tree has a shallower and smaller network of surface feeder roots than the larger tree, but is located in a mulched area that is, relatively speaking, the equivalent of a thirty or forty foot wide mulch zone around the larger tree, with probably a similarly wacky depth to that mulch! All of which is to say, I'd remove the mulch!

I would say it might get to 4' max, but that could take several more years, as not only will 'Flying Dragon' reduce the overall mature size of a tree, it also will make the tree reach maturity more slowily. And, actually maximum growth for a citrus cultivar (in general) on standard rootstocks is acheived at about 5 years, not 10, Josh. A little longer (maybe a year or two) on semi-dwarfing rootstocks. All tree cultivars have different maturity rates :-) A tree continues to grow, but not necessarily in height once it's met its maximum height potential. And of course environmental factors play a big part in growth rate for sure. Optimal conditions provide the most rapid growth rate (as you can see with John M's Meyer lemons on a very vigorous rootstock in great soil, and being extremely well maintained). My yard, not so much on DG, imperfect watering, and fertilizers that tend to leach quickly down in my poor soil. Plus, battling Phytothphora to varying degrees. So, my trees grow more slowly, in comparison. And that's the generalization. I have two Four Winds trees on Cuban Shaddock (almost as dwarfing as 'Flying Dragon') that are 3 years old and are about 2 1/2 to 3' tall (Clemnules and California Honey mandarins). Right next to another Four Winds tree also on Cuban Shaddock that is about 4 1/2' tall and growing like a banshee with the wickedest thorns you've ever seen (Red Smith Valencia). They are all within 10' of each other. Same fertilizing schedule, same pest treatment schedule, same drips, same sun exposure. So, there is also variability within cultivars, and within each individual tree :-) Not probably the answer you wanted, but the most realistic answer I can provide. Patty S.