Environmentally, they'd be better off going back to glass bottles. We get our milk from a local farm now that delivers just like in the 'old days' when I was little. Pretty cool for those of us who live in a metropolitan area like we do. We return the glass bottles every week. Now, I just need to convince them to wrap their butter in waxed paper rather than putting it in plastic tubs!

Cynthia

Glenda - lol!!!! Yes, and have for years. For 1 l. and 2 l. sizes we still have the waxed cardboard. It was the 'gallon' size that morphed. Apparently, it was difficult to properly sanitize the plastic jugs, they needed the 'extra-strength' handle, etc. You get 3-1 and a bit litre bags in one large bag, for a total of 4 l. The inner bags are sanitary, like an IV bag, and are recyclable in most areas. The outside bag is now biodegradable.
You can get pretty much every kind of milk, including chocolate milk in bags. You buy a plastic pitcher, specifically made for the bags, snip a pouring hole, and - this is controversial - maybe a 'burb' hole on the far end.

We have had them for so long, it seems normal. We have a very high standard for milk - it is very closely regulated for quantity and quality production. Our cows are not given Bovine Growth Hormones to increase their production, and every load of milk is monitored for the presence of antibiotics. If antibiotics are found in the milk, the load is dumped. Each farm has a sample taken by the pick-up driver, and the farm responsible for the dump pays all of the other produces for the dumped milk - it keeps everyone honest!!

There you go - perhaps everything you never wanted to know about Canadian milk!!!

Nancy.

Here is a link that might be useful: Diary Farmers of Ontario

Cynthia - sorry, I meant to address the glass bottle thing. I'm pretty sure New Zealand went back to glass bottles. They have Dairy Stores, which exclusively sell milk and milk products. It is a small country, and having depots seems to help. We are an enormous country, with not a lot of people, so the transport of the bottles, to consumers and back to be sterilized and refilled would be a huge carbon footprint. I do believe some provinces have 'boutique' dairies that do this, but you would need a large population to support this, imo. Again, the quality control would be a concern, unless you really knew the people at the farm.
btw, our butter still comes in blocks, wrapped in tinfoil or waxed paper. Margarine comes in tubs, mostly.

There ya go!! Nancy.

Nancy, our milk supply is monitored exactly the same and the water is tested annually that is used to clean the barn with. Each barn is also inspected on a regular basis. Same rules apply about antibiotics and the SCC and PI counts must be kept below a certain level (referring to the health of the cows and the shelf life of the milk). I was sick when they allowed Monsanto to sell BST for dairy cows and never used it. Then they wouldn't even let smaller dairies market their milk as "BST free". That may have changed recently.

I lived with these controls for 15 years. Thanks for the answer. Here the plastic bottles are recycled or destroyed not reused because they cannot be sanitized. So I am still wondering about why bags over the plastic jugs.

Are you saying production for each dairy is kept to a certain amount so the total milk production is kept at a steady figure? We were just talking about maybe the US should do that to keep milk prices up. Dairies are suffering through the lowest prices anyone can remember. 50% lower than last year!

Thanks for the info, Nancy. Living on the east coast, I am envious of your land to people ratio. We have been to NZ and loved it! It has always been on the cutting edge as far as the environment goes. I was ready to move (had a realtor, lawyer, application, teaching info, everything), but DH is not as impulsive and we waited too long-now we are to old to immigrate there-you have to be 55 or younger. Although it is a small country, it also has a small population-only around four million people (44 million sheep, though!). Half of the Kiwis live in the Aukland area, so when you travel through the rest of the country, there is plenty of open space between stops/towns. Wonderful place-as is Canada!!!

Glenda - I admired how clean your cows were!! My very dear friends own a milk transport company, and my ex initially drove for them. The cleanliness of the animals and the barns was the measure of the farm. I used to go with him on Christmas day, when he had to work, and it was magic - no riders allowed anymore. When I was in the travel biz, I did a couple of trips for the transporters, to see how it was done elsewhere. Then never made it to MO, but did go the the Hershey/Lancaster area. They were amazed at how like the wild west it was - little control or oversight. Here, the farmers buy 'quota'. This regulates the amount of milk they produce, and it is a very valuable commodity. Diaries, cheese makers, candy makers, etc. bid for a share, and pay accordingly - the best milk goes to milk production, then down the line. Most in Ontario raise Holsteins, because they are heavy producers, with an even fat level. Some raise Jerseys/Guernseys, for the fat level, which can be used for special products. It all still goes through the board. We had a local producer hereabouts with Swiss Browns, and he made cheeses and unbelievable yogurts. It still was tested by my friend's drivers, and measured for quantity and quality before it could be transfered from one side of the biz to the other. Some may call this government meddling or control- this part of the gov't we are happy for, as you don't have to think twice about the product. I know some milk producers in the US say our milk is subsidized, because of the quotas, however, we are painfully aware that in some northern states, herds have to be put down if there is too much product. Our guys can still sell their over-quota milk, which happens in the summer, for a lower price. This is usually reflected in milk prices at the grocery stores. I know that you are on your own well(s). In PA and parts of NY, they get 'city' water. On the tour, the transporters could not believe the excessive use of water.
Cynthia - thanks. I know sometimes we are regarded as the have-not little sister, but we are just fine, and do like our open spaces. You should do a trip from Kingston,ON to Ottawa some day - our amazing part of the world.

Sorry - I can go on and on.

Nancy.

Oh no, some of us think you all have gotten it right! I have camped in Nova Scotia and PEI and, of course, been to Niagara Falls-much nicer on the Canadian side for sure! Have not made it to any of your cities, but it is on my to-do-before-I-die list! LOL. A dear friend/fellow teacher at school is always visiting Windsor (sp.?) where she has family. She loves being home! I am not so good with cold, so I'll have to come in the summer, I guess.

Nancy, I love your going on about it. We are still very interested in the dairy business even though we retired in 04.

Our government can call it what they like but they had a program when we milked called MILC (milk income loss Contract).Call it what you will, it is a subsidy. They are doing it again now with prices so low now. What has happened in the US is mega dairies with cows in the l,000's have grown up out west and the pressure is forcing small dairies out of business. I hate mega businesses in agriculture. I am betting when all small dairies are defunct, the milk prices will stabilize! I am a pessimist where government and big business are involved .

Boy, I hope the small guys can hang in there. We love our dairy! Their harvest days are next weekend and we are going up there with our neighbor's daughter, so she can see the farm. Also going because they will have the season's first egg nog sample. Wonder if they will notice if I bring my own little flask with me? Teehee. Seriously, though, it will be a sad day when the small farmer can't make it any more. Lots of folks in the D.C. area are trying to support them through farmers' markets, coops, home delivery, etc., but so many more prefer to run to the big stores and get everything in one stop-no time to slow down. Such a shame. I think we all need a shift in our way of thinking/living.

Cynthia - not sure if the 100 mile diet is popular down there. They are trying it in many ways here, and it is a good idea, if not always sustainable in the north - lol. It means you should always or mostly consume food stuffs from within 100 miles of where you live. I'd never be able to eat an orange again, so that ain't gonna happen!!!! lol. However, making sure you eat the strawberries when they are ripe locally, not the cheap ones from CA or FL; the local corn, etc. - all of this supports your local growers. It's not easy, and it is not cheap - compare the prices on the above!!! We're talking maybe $10 a week, depending on how much you consume - BUT - and yes, it's a big BUT - Have you truly tasted the difference??? Can you put a price on real freshness?? I don't think so. So, I hope you are able to make a difference for that farm, as they have for you. It, I think, is the way of the future!!!

Nancy.

Milk has been available in plastic bags for a long time here but we still buy ours in a waxed carton. The plastic t-shirt bags are slowly leaving the scene, some stores are fazing them out completely, we now take our own cloth bags with us when grocery shopping.
The 100 mile diet is really catching on here too. We have several farmers markets locally, yes a little more expensive but you can't beat the flavor, the last one I went to someone was selling bunches of purslane along with other fresh greens. Anyone grow this, I think it would be great in salads.
We just had the most delicious honey garlic sausages made at a local butcher shop last night. But butcher shops are fast becoming a thing of the past sigh, just try and find a butcher these days that can cut liver 1/8 inch thin :o(.

Annette

Nancy, think of all the people who think strawberries should be white inside!!! Definitely worth the extra $ for locally grown, field ripened food! Our milkman Ronnie always brings us tomatoes from his own garden. They taste like childhood-yum! I think a lot of my son's friends are helping to support the farmers' markets around here. They really value organic, small farms. Maybe there is hope!

In Manotick, where I used to live, there is a wonderful old water mill, still in operation!! A farmer near there has started growing organic wheat, which the mill grinds and sells. It is incredibly popular. This is the power of old thinking and young farmers!!! Let's hope it continues!! Oh yes, and it makes great bread!!

Nancy.

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Yea, Libby!!!

I had never heard it called the 100 Mile Diet but I do think more and more people are becoming aware of what they are eating and where it comes from. I know we have lots of farmers markets in our area. We also have one large garden that sells at the farm. I plan to check it out soon for turnips (which failed for me) and new lettuce. I am getting more and more wary about buying fresh produce.

I had a man from Portugal on another forum remark that Americans were the only people who expected to eat anything they wanted anytime of the year! It got me thinking; I suspect he is right.

Great picture of the milk in bags.

Yea, Libby!!!

Glenda - how did I miss your post?? Now, I was told by a friend from MO that people from there only ate turnip greens!! You eat the roots? I must challenge him, next time I see him.

Nancy.

I love all the stories we hear about us hillbillies!

Yes, love, we eat roots of turnips. I actually don't like turnip greens. I peel, slice, cook in a bit of water that is salted and had some sugar added. Now here is the hillbilly part......you season them once cooked down low or drained with bacon grease. All Ozarks cooks who deserve the name must keep a jar or can of bacon grease on hand for seasoning. I also like a bit of hot pepper flakes and vinegar added at eating.

DH, won't touch them!

Glenda

LOL Glenda, there must be some hillbilly in me, I use bacon grease too. It adds just that little extra touch to my Mac and Cheese to lazy to go to the store casserole, use it on a wilted spinach salad and definitely on the first feed of steamed snap beans I pick. Your talking turnip not rutabaga, turnips are a little too strong for us but we love rutabaga, it's a must with pork and quite often have it with roast chicken or beef. I usually add butter, a bit of sugar and dill weed before it hits our plates :o). I do the vinegar thing on Cabbage, will have to try that and red pepper flakes on rutabaga sounds good.

Annette

Annette, would you believe I have never eaten or know anyone who has eaten a rutabaga. I wonder if it is just my family or it is a more northern vegetable. I will check and see if they have it in my local grocery.

Maybe it is just people with good taste who use bacon grease.

I am getting ready to clean a bunch of old cooking fats, including bacon grease for soap making.

That sounds amazing - making soap??!! I hate turnip/rutabagas/swedes - what ever the heck ya want to call them...Someone gave me seeds for something called a heritage turnip...had to grow them, dontcha know!!
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This is what I got - gave them to my turnip loving friends, but couldn't help to notice that the seedlings looked like radishes, and the full grown bulbs(?) smelled like very STRONG radishes. My friends, politely, thought I had gone out of my frikkin' mind, but did not share this info. till they tried them. Apparently, they are wonderfully sweet, once cooked. I tried roasting them on the BBQ - nyet!!! I tried shredding them into a salad - double nyet!!!

All to say, still do not like them, or any of their ilk!!!

Remind me again, how close are you to Lebanon, Glenda??

Nancy.

Great discussion. As a Pennsylvania yankee, it wasn't until I lived in N.C. that I saw so much cooking with bacon grease. My former MIL kept her crock of it right there on the stove for almost everything! She also loved turnips. When my son was just a year old and still in a high chair, she served them for Thanksgiving dinner. She was the only one who liked them and she decided to settle the disagreement by giving some to John to prove they were good. I put some on his tray and he promptly grabbed them and put them in his mouth. Well, the face he made had us all rolling on the floor. That pretty much ended the argument, but not the way she had intended! She never tried to make us eat them again.

Glenda, we actually call rutabaga turnip around here. Sometimes I mash it and equal amounts of carrots and of course a bit of butter. Parsnips, Eggplant and Marrow are the other veggies I don't care for but I have to admit just recently I had carrots and parsnips whipped with butter and cream and that was lip smackin good.
Back to milk, I don't think I'd ever buy it in a plastic bag, knowing me I'd plop it down on the counter on top of something pointy and I'd have milk squirting everywhere.

Annette

Try roasting your parsnips, Annette. My cousin's departed DH did them this way, parboiling first, and they were yummy. I'd never liked them before, as ex-MIL boiled them, mashed them, and served with white sauce. I could barely choke them down!!!

Nancy.

Nancy, I'll have to try them roasted, didn't like them that way when young but you never know. Boiled and mashed is bad enough but with white sauce, that makes me gag just thinking about it, oh yuck you poor thing.

Annette

Yep, and was raised to eat at least a bit of everything on my plate - all of it when I was younger, hence my hate of turnip!! lol.

Nancy.