My New Four Winds Trees pics! (but also transplant shock worry)

10 years ago

HI Everyone!

Although I am constantly reading on the citrus forum, it has been quite a while since I last posted.
I have been growing citrus in NJ for several years now. I finally got a Solexx greenhouse for this year! Until this year, I was always lugging in my citrus inside the house every winter, and supporting them with artificial light in the winters. Thank goodness for the greenhouse now!
Anyway, even though I have had citrus for several years, although hard to believe it took this long, I finally made my first Four Winds order! I recently just had a major surgery, so I thought I would treat myself to what was at first, 2 trees. However, since they had a 20% off coupon for the summer, it was easy to talk myself into 3 trees! Then, I discovered, after the 3 trees, I mistakenly put 4 trees in my shopping cart, and realized from the 3rd to 4th tree, the shipping only went up $3! So, with the shipping only going up $3 instead of $20 like the first 2 trees, and along with the 20% off, it made perfect sense (in my mind anyway) just to get 4 trees! I would eventually buy the trees at another time anyway, so think of the shipping and discounts saved buying 4 now instead of 2 now and 2 later! LOL!
So long story short, I purchased 4 three-year-old trees from Four Winds. I got
Golden Nugget Mandarin
Australian Finger Lime
Moro Blood Orange
Santa Teresa Feminello Lemon

They arrived bare root in cedar shavings. I got them on Friday and planted them on Saturday. I used the 5:1:1 recipe, using pine bark fines, perlite, and Pro-Mix potting medium. As suggested by Four Winds, I also added their cedar shavings to the mix accounting for part of the pine bark share of the ratio. I also added a small amount of dolomite lime, and slow release fertilizer (no instant fert yet). I bought this new brand pellets instead of Osmocote pellets this time because the ratio of the fertilizer was closer to a 3:1:2 ratio and wanted to see how it worked out ( I think it is actually 24-8-16 on the nose, but will double check and name of brand too and will post it).

I soaked them in water just a little bit before potting up along with a liquid product called SuperThrive, very little, only ¼ tsp. to the gallon. I only added this because Four Winds suggest using a vitamin B1 supplement while transplanting, and the superthrive has vitamin B in it along with a few other vitamins. It is suppose to help with the transplant shock.

So, I have them potted up, and have had them in the shade since Saturday. But I noticed now some more than usual wilting and slight leaf curl so I thought I would post some pics to see if you all think this is normal plant shock stress or perhaps more serious. For the most part, the one I am mainly concerned with is the Golden Nugget Mandarin. Although the newer foliage was slightly wilted to begin with when I received it, it seems to be getting worse.

I have had them outside the greenhouse in the shade since potting up. Was thinking of putting them in the sun and/or the greenhouse after 1 week, or maybe I should hold off even more now that they are showing more stress. I have also held off fertilizer. Unless someone suggests differently, I will be holding off fertilizing with Foliage Pro 3:1:2 liquid fertilizer for another week. I also have not watered since soil is still moist from potting up.

I have pics of all the trees just for you to see them in general (really impressed at the size of the finger lime!) While all show slight stress, you can see the mandarin is really bad.

Does anyone have any suggestions? When to take in or out of shade? When to apply Foliage Pro?
Do they look like regular potting stress, or something more? Could it just be from shipping, or did I do something to make it bad? Soil ratio look ok?

Again, I’m sorry for the long post (and the long scroll time because of the huge pictures). As always, I look forward to all suggestions and help!

Christy

Here is the sad Golden Nugget Mandarin. You can see the extra leaf wilting and slight curling.
{{gwi:618992}}

Here is Golden Nugget again, in the middle you see some weird curly leaves, they were there when I received the tree
{{gwi:618994}}

Australian Finger Lime looks pretty good, but still has some wilting at the tips of the new growth in 2nd pic

Moro Blood Orange, seems pretty good, what do you think?

Santa Teresa Feminello Lemon, seems ok?

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Comments (14)

meyermike_1micha
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I think they all look fine except a bit of heat streesed...Probably from the mail?

I wouldn't worry about them. You are doing just fine and have done everything right except I would of not used cedar shavings.....But cedar shavings at this point are causing no harm at all...

By the way, what you received your plants with was 'red wood shavings'...

beautiful and good luck with them. If you notice they are perking upi, in other words, taking up moisture, the roots are working well and I would give them a bit more sunshine..It can do wondesr after a week or two in the shade...

Mike:-)
bonechickchris
Original Author
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Thanks Mike for the reply! Yes, you are right, they are not cedar but red wood shavings that came with the trees. So, no there is no cedar in the mix, just the red wood chips. I only included them because the Four Winds literature suggested to do so, but there was not much compared to the huge batch of soil I made for 3 12 inch pots and 1 15 inch pot. There was only a few cups of shavings that came with the trees, so maybe each pot has a total of 2 cups worth of shavings in it? Do you think that is ok?

I gave them more sun today because it was overcast, but will start giving them more sun each day as suggested.

When do you think i should give them their first Foliage Pro dose?

Also, do you think the young shoots on the mandarin will ever repair or do you think I will wind up just losing those new shoots and leaves?

Great to know that they look ok to you! Coming from you Mike I feel a lot better ( knowing you are the master citrus gardener of our East Coast! lol!)
Christy
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Hi Patty, Thanks again for all your usefull info. You mention the fact that 'Kishu' is a smaller fruit, so small that it prevents it from being a grocery store citrus. This fact is one of the #1 reasons why I chose to buy it. Small fruits mature and ripen much faster. From what you told me before, it sounds like 'Page' will be the same way. I have had my 'ORo Blanco' now for 1 full year now. Over the past winter(I would say up to December), it had 4 nice sized fruits. They continued to grow and mature but sadly they all dropped, and I would say that they only maybe had another month or 2 to go before being fully mature and ripe. I know my problem was that I didn't have enough space for all my tropicals and tropical fruit trees. I alson new that they needed more light but I figure the tree was still too small and now it can concentrate on growing larger and taller. I still will be hoping to get my hands on the Minneola and hopefully if I make it to FL this summer, I can pick one up and ship it back home to me. If I cannot wait that long to get it(when I really want something like that, I tend to get impatient..LMAO!!) I will either order it from Four Winds or try to order it from my local nursery. Hi Mike, I am all ready growing my tropicals in my 2 bedrooms! One I use for figs, plumerias, and a few of my tropicals such as my passionfruit vine and my keylime. I also have Laura'a agave in there. The other I Have my HPS light in and that's where the rest are except for my 'Star Ruby' which is in my living room right now. When I went to Potratz, they had HPS or Hallide lights for sale along with T5's. I was really happy to see this! I plan on buying a new light set up here and there this summer. That way by the time winter roles around again, I will be all prepared and my newly growing citrus collection will have all the light they need...along with the mango and other tropical fruit collections! I really am going to have to stop otherwise I will not have anymore room in this apartment! Were going to have to make a decision on if were going to live in NY or if were going to move FLorida. You know I would much rather live in FL! Mike, I forgot to ask you....if you plan on another trip to Logees, PLEASE let me know!! I have a few things I would like to get there. Another 'Day' avocado, the yellow gardenia, and if they have a decent sized HEALTHY Minneola, I would like that too!! It really does make a BIG diffrence to have a trusted friend(not only a good friend like you but someone who also loves there plants!) to hand pick the plants. Hi Laura, WOW sounds like the PHL flower show was a success! Between you and I, I hate the noids! You don't know what you really have and then if you go and buy something else that's similar or not blooming, you run the risk of getting another noid! I did lose around 7 or 8 plumerias this winter but only a couple were really special. One of them was 'JJ Jenny' but Sonia is looking for another one for me as we speak. Thank god for people like you, Sonia, and Mike, and all the others that I haven't mentioned. You all have made it much eaier for me to get some of these harder to find plants/tropicals. If you stumble across a nice sized Minneola or Washington Navel, PLEASE grab it for me and I will reimburse you. I just don't want to spend another arm and a leg having to order them. Ooh, and yes Laura, I am trying to persuade you to become a co citrus horder with me! What you will find cool about this hobby is that citrus can be easily propogated from cuttings! Mike is doing this all ready, and I will be asking him for some tips so I can get growing my very own cuttings. I did it years ago with Ponderosa lemon. I didn't have any trouble with rooting it but all my recent attemps at rooting have not been productive. Well take care everyone! I did check my delivery status for my Four Winds order. Right now it's in New Jersey so it should be here by tomorrow. Laura, I will be hiding the new arrivals for a while..LOL! I laughed my butt off when you mentioned how during the winter, the rooms are getting greener and greener, and fuller and fuller! Andrew
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Lynn, As I understand it you have two main questions. What should you do now with the transplanted citrus to improve their chances of survival and how/when should you transplant the remaining citrus to improve their chances of survival? I would check the small branches on the repotted citrus for life by cutting off a few tips. If the centers still show green your tree has a good chance of survival. If the centers are not green, continue to trim until you see green. If you see no green, the trees are dead. If your trees are alive, do not over water. The roots have probably been damaged to some extent as others have said. Spray the tops with water frequently, but only the tops, or tent them in vented plastic to increase humidity, again as someone else has said. If they are still alive they will probably resprout. As to the second question: others have well addressed soil composition. Another issue is roots drying out. Oklahoma can be very dry and you took about 20 minutes to repot. I think that this is likely to have caused the problem. Repotting in Spring would probably have the advantage of more humid conditions, personally that would not deter me from Fall planting, but I would take extra care, either using water to get soil out of the roots (as described above), or spritzing with a water bottle frequently and covering exposed sections of root that you are not actively working on with plastic. I hope your plants "bounce back". Cath
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meyermike_1micha
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Hello Christy...

I usually start feeding a week after I repotted once they are settlted in..If by then the roots were not functioning they would be dead by then...So feed as you would like.

You can never be to sure, but they will come back...Keep your fingers crossed....They look they were shipped right as that new growth was in full gear..Arg...

Lol....Well, I would not go that far,,I have killed a few in my lifetime, including just last week by forgetting to water it..lol Guess I shall have to keep a closer track on the dozens of trees I have, including the ones that fall behind bushes...Sheesh..lol

Good luck with them and congrats..They are beauties!
This a a great time of year to grow them before they have to come inside and face the next challenge...This is the easy part right now..:-)

Mike
greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I agree with Mike....looks like you've done everything right. I wait 1 - 2 weeks to fertilize, as well, and slowly edge the trees into stronger morning light...avoiding harsh midday or afternoon light if possible. The wind will still ravage those tender tips and slow recovery, so avoid wind if possible, too.

Very nice selections! Love the Moro.

Josh
bonechickchris
Original Author
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Thanks Josh for the reply! I have them under the ledge of the patio, so they are getting some wind protection. I could put them in the greenhouse away from the fan and they would be better protected wind wise, but I think it may be still too hot for them in there?

Yes Josh, I love blood oranges! I have another blood named Vaniglia Sanguigno I got from Logees when I was on vaca in CT, but it is not in fruiting stage yet. I just think blood oranges are so beautiful!

And i am also excited for tasting a finger lime. The vesicles are round and the juice is suppose to just pop in your mouth. I was reading some fancy chef article or something that says because the vesicles are round and closed until bit into, the release of flavor in very intense and tasty along with the added addition of texture when it pops open. Again, the article explained it much better than I am here. I hope they have the red finger lime in the US one day.

What is considered "too hot" for newly transplanted citrus?

Mike, I know the worst part is the change of seasons and hauling the citrus in! I did this for years. But now I have the greenhouse and it has made a tremendous difference! For the first time i did not have to worry about leaf drop due to indoor lighting issues.
If I remember correctly Mike, you have a greenhouse, but still bring them in around February when it gets real cold?
I kept mine in the greenhouse all winter with heat of course. I only kept it in the low 40's on the coldest nights, sometimes even getting to the upper 30's, experimenting since it was my first year, and the citrus had no issues! I was suprised! Definitely reacted much better to the greenhouse than all the years being in my house with lights.

Although I did not have the greenhouse up yet when Sandy came, which was a good thing because who knows if it would of gotten destroyed. But when Sandy came, I had my one room in the house filled with all my citrus and figs and other special plants so I would not lose them in the storm. Then, I had hauled them all back outside just to have them all hauled back inside less than a week later because of our freak Halloween snow storm! I am sure you had part of that too Mike?

Oh, before I go, should I give them any epsom salts or vinegar now, or when I first fertlize over the weekend?

Thanks guys! Christy
bonechickchris
Original Author
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
PS to my above post,,,,

I forgot to post this pic. These leaves were on the Mandarin when I got it. They are very curvy and have a few black dots and this discoloration. They are only in the middle of the tree. Is this anything to worry about? I thought I would post here before making a new thread. Let me know if you need a closer pic of a leaf. Christy
{{gwi:619005}}
greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Hello! I would remove those leaves.

Wait on the epsom and vinegar.

Josh
meyermike_1micha
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Oh I hear you about bringing them in! I have to haul mine upstairs into my home and watch for bugs all winter although I keep that room very cool and moist..What a pain!
I also miss watering them so dramatically like I do and being able to be sitting right next to them in my yard...I can't believe how fast this summer is going!
I start bringing them in by October..
You are kidding me right? February? It's the deepest and darkest and coldest part of the year for us..;-(

I am with Josh, pull those leaves off and hold off on the vinegar....

Mike
meyermike_1micha
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Oh I hear you about bringing them in! I have to haul mine upstairs into my home and watch for bugs all winter although I keep that room very cool and moist..What a pain!
I also miss watering them so dramatically like I do and being able to be sitting right next to them in my yard...I can't believe how fast this summer is going!
I start bringing them in by October..
You are kidding me right? February? It's the deepest and darkest and coldest part of the year for us..;-(

I am with Josh, pull those leaves off and hold off on the vinegar....

Mike
bonechickchris
Original Author
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Ok, so do you think they are just bad leaves to pull off, no reason to worry or is it something more?
H Yes Mike, I meant to say I knew your citrus were in the house around Jan/Feb, but thought for some reason you had a greenhouse that you were able to keep them in for a little extra time when the fall came. I could be wrong, i thought I read that on a post of yours last year.

I do say Mike, if you ever get a small greenhouse, it would make life so much easier! I am so happy I spent the money to finally get one, and I only had to use a $40 radiator oil heater at night time for most of the winter, and also had a $49 ceramic heater to use only a few nights when it went into the low teens and single digits. Very surprised because I thought the electric would of been more than it turned out to be.

As for the leaves, is it something to ask Four Winds about or to just pull them off? I know they have very healthy trees, so I dont want to seem like I am complaining If it is nothing to worry about, but I also don't know much about citrus disease either.
thanks again! Christy
Scott_6B
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Regarding the leaves on the mandarin (this is the Gold Nugget correct?). I have a Gold Nugget from Four Winds, purchased earlier this year. My tree has the same curled leaves. I believe this is just Leaf Miner damage, a couple of the curled leaves on my tree had the tell-tale Leaf Miner tracks.

Also FYI: The Four Winds Gold Nugget trees are grafted onto Cunningham citrange (not on Cuban shaddock, which Four Winds also likes to use). The Cunningham rootstock should have a good degree of cold tolerance unlike Cuban shaddock... good news for us cold weather citrus growers.
bonechickchris
Original Author
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Thanks Scott! Yes, one of the reasons I picked Golden Nugget was because of the colder hardiness, and it also was the only mandarin on their list that did not need a lot of heat to make the fruit sweet. Good to know another Northern person made the same choice :)
So is the citrus leaf miner something my other trees can catch or only a problem with hotter climate places and will no longer be an issue here once I remove the leaves? Thanks! Christy
bonechickchris
Original Author
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Ok, it has been a little over a week since planting, so I am going to give them their first feeding of foliage pro. Should I use a full dose or half it? Also, should i foliar feed them too with a spray on the leaves or no?

I will take those bad leaves off of the mandarin, however, if it is leaf miner damage they got previous to shipping, do I have to worry about it being something that can spread to my other citrus? Should I mention this to Four Winds? I am not familar with leaf miners so I do not know how serious an issue they are. I just do not want them on any of my other citrus. Do they only live in the warmer climates where the trees originally came from or can they live here in NJ too? I would hate to introduce a new problem to my citrus that I have never had before.
I also have had them in more full sun with some protection from the high afternoon sun. Should they all be out in full sun all the time now?
Thanks again for the help! Christy
greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I think it's a fine idea to send the images to Four Winds, and then put the leaves in the trash.

Start with a 1/2 strength dose this week, and increase next application. When in doubt, start light...you can always add more ;-)

Josh

My New Four Winds Trees pics! (but also transplant shock worry)

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