Updated trees from Coconut Husk Chips to the 5.1.1 mix. Pictures

13 years ago

In just a month I am getting all the green back, fruit, extra growth and flowers again...

Thank you to all those that came to the rescue of these as fast as you did, the encouragement, and thank you for helping me be successful..:-) Thank you Al..:-)

No more Coconut Husk Chips for my trees..I think they are relieved..lol

The ponderosa that was loosening it leaves, turning yellow, and loosing the fruit..The leaves have gotten greener, held on to the only fruit left..

Then my Lemon meter that was very yellow and had stunted growth..It has almost doubled and looking real green again..

I posted the link of what they looked like before the switch..

I am so excited..Again thanks.. Josh you were right..:-)

Mike..:-) :-) :-)

Here is a link that might be useful: What they looked like before in CHC's..Pictures

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Comments (12)

jaybird3316
13 years ago
Mike,

Al's container posts are invaluable. I am a 5:1:1 believer!

I bought this little centennial Kumquat for next to nothing because it was in terrible shape. 5:1:1 did the trick. I have little kumquats growing all over the thing now (not int his picture, but now. I need to pinch them off)
{{gwi:616354}}

Same story with this Meyer Lemon. Bought it dirt cheap becuase it was yellow and sparce. Its getting better and better.
{{gwi:616356}}
jojosplants
13 years ago
Hi Mike!
I'm so glad you got things turned around!! The tree's look great!

I have 2 fruit tree's in the 5-1-1 and just love it! But I think I am going to work everyone into the gritty here in the near future. I like that it will last longer.

I did find a grit source!! Just talked to Al about it yesterday, and will be getting it soon!! I'm so excited!

I talked to Michael and we are looking to get 15-20 more tree's between now and spring!
Fruit and citrus. He's so pleased with these mixes too and he doesn't even garden! lol..

Take Care!
will write soon. ;)

JoJo
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@dleverette When making 5:1:1 mix, I break-up the compressed chunks of peat so they pass through a 1/2" screen. I toss any sticks and such on top of the raised beds where they break down with time. Here's a tip you'll find very helpful. For large batches of 5:1:1, pour the bark onto a tarp laid on a flat surface, then wet the bark a bit. Then, add the screened peat and spread it over the bark. Add your lime on top of the peat, then put down the perlite and wet that. The trick is to use just enough water to make the mix damp when it's thoroughly mixed. Both peat and pine bark are hydrophobic (water repellent) when allowed to dry below about 20% of their water holding ability. This makes a dry 5:1:1 mix extremely difficult to rewet if you don't moisten it when you make it. The moisture in the mix diffuses, moistening the bark/ peat and "breaking" its tendency to repel water. Within 15-30 minutes of making the mix you can pot plants and water them in thoroughly w/o the frustration associated with trying to rehydrate a dry soil. FWIW, I don't use coir. As many times as I've tried it and cone comparative experiments, I've always had problems or been dissatisfied with the results. You might be interested in a comparison between peat and coir I wrote several years back: Peat vs. Coir Sphagnum peat and coir have nearly identical water retention curves. They both retain about 90-95% of their volume in water at saturation and release it over approximately the same curve until they both lock water up so tightly it's unavailable for plant uptake at about 30-33% saturation. Coir actually has less loft than sphagnum peat, and therefore, less aeration. Because of this propensity, coir should be used in mixes at lower %s than peat. Because of the tendency to compact, in the greenhouse industry coir is primarily used in containers in sub-irrigation (bottom-watering) situations. Many sources produce coir that is high in soluble salts, so this can also be an issue. Using coir as the primary component of container media virtually eliminates lime or dolomitic lime as a possible Ca source because of coir's high pH (6+). Gypsum should be used as a Ca source, which eliminates coir's low S content. All coir products are very high in K, very low in Ca, and have a potentially high Mn content, which can interfere with the uptake of Fe. Several studies have also shown that the significant presence of phenolic allelochemicals in fresh coir can be very problematic for a high % of plants, causing poor growth and reduced yields. I haven't tested coir thoroughly, but I have done some testing of CHCs (coconut husk chips) with some loose controls in place. After very thoroughly leaching and rinsing the chips, I made a 5:1:1 soil of pine bark:peat:perlite (which I know to be very productive) and a 5:1:1 mix of CHCs:peat:perlite. I planted 6 cuttings of snapdragon and 6 cuttings of Coleus (each from the same plant to help reduce genetic influences) in containers (same size/shape) of the different soils. I added dolomitic lime to the bark soil and gypsum to the CHC soil. After the cuttings struck, I eliminated all but the three strongest in each of the 4 containers. I watered each container with a weak solution of MG 12-4-8 with STEM added at each watering, and watered on an 'as needed basis', not on a schedule. The only difference in the fertilizer regimen was the fact that I included a small amount of MgSO4 (Epsom salts) to provide MG (the dolomitic lime in the bark soil contained the MG, while the gypsum (CaSO4) in the CHC soil did not. This difference was necessary because or the high pH of CHCs and coir.) for the CHC soil. The results were startling. In both cases, the cuttings grown in the CHC's exhibited < 1/2 the biomass at summers end as the plants in the bark mix. I just find it very difficult for a solid case to be made (besides "It works for me") for the use of coir or CHC's. They're more expensive and more difficult to use effectively. The fact that some believe peat is in short supply (no where near true, btw) is easily offset by the effect of the carbon footprint of coir in its trek to the US from Sri Lanka or other exotic locales. That's the view from here. YMMV Coir Study: https://sites.google.com/site/plantandsoildigest/usu-crop-physiology-laboratory/coconut-coir-studies Al
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meyermike_1micha
Original Author
13 years ago
Jojo..!Thank you so much for being a part of the help I needed to do so! Thank you..

I really owe most credit ot you know who..:-)

Al has been an unbeleivable support for me and a few of my friends!! Never have my plants been so happy..

What kind of fruit tress? I too am slowly drifting to the gritty mix..Talk about an easy mix to transplant out of..It just falls away from the bones, I mean roots!lol

I never thought I would see the day your HB would start getting involved..That is great..Do you know how many people I know locally that are now taking up the hobbie of growing fruit trees, since once before they never could ever grow tropicals here? They are having the time of their life growing plants they never once thought they could.A few people here at work want be to take them shopping for the gritty mix supplies..lol

Take care!

I will write soon..:)

Mike
jojosplants
13 years ago
Jay!
Your tree looks great too! I save alot of Al's post and print them. :) The 2 tree's I have in the 5-1-1 were almost dead too. They just took off and came right back! Now the roots have filled the pots and will need to be moved to a bigger container soon.
I'm like you and many other's and wont go back to store bought mixes again for anything. :)

Hi Mike,
You did all the work. :) I just hung around offering support to my good friend. ;)

If anything, I owe you for comming to my rescue almost a year ago, and pointing out these mixes and the container forum.. ;)

Yes, we do owe most of the credit to Al~ :)
His support and patience with our endless questions, we'll always be greatful for. :)

My plants are happy too.. So that means I am. :) For the first time in yrs! I get to enjoy them instead of fight with them all summer.

I have a pear tree, and appricot in containers. A plum in ground. Just got my fig last week. And orange and lemon in containers.. but with soil from yard still, and not happy! LOL! This weekend i'm going to look at the citrus at a new place I went to. 20 acers to browse! Plants, tree's and cactus and succulents! Heaven..LOL!!!

Oh, I never said Michael was "involved" :). He doesn't go near the garden unless it's to see what's ready to eat. LOL!
But he see's how well everything is doing, and doesn't mind me spending the money now, because plants actually live now. Were getting 14" terra cotta's for them too.
I make him look at your posts and Al's and Josh. ;) When he saw how well you guys were doing with your plants, he was all for me trying these mixes.

It's been awhile since i've heard "oh, something new to kill" ROFL! It was so bad, my mail man would write R.I.P on a box if he knew it was a plant from ebay. lol...

My mom and friend are asking me to get them set up with the mixes too. :)

I wish you could take me shopping too! ROFL! I hate driving around. lol!

If I get a chance i'll try and get some pics of the tree's strugling in the soil from the yard... then after being in the gritty for a few weeks and post them later.
meyermike_1micha
Original Author
13 years ago
Jay...Now that I have access to see the pictures, I got to tell you they are so nice and coming along so well..You do the same as me..lol. I always look for the specials, even if the plant looks sick, because I always feel like I can make them look better in my care..Sort of an ego thing..lol

Seriously, reminds me of going to the animal shelter to pick up some poor dog or cat and help nurture it along by giving it a good home..Sort of like what the Dog Whisperer feels helping a once hopeless dog..It is a great feeling to see something become better than when it was..And your plants, by far are looking awsome compared to when you picked them up...You should be proud and feel a sense of satisfaction..I feel like that everytime my trees make it through a winter unscathed...I like to give the mix a lot of credit too..:-)

Thank you for the pictures..:-)

Hi Jojo..:-):-):-)Oh my God, plant heaven is right!!! Just leave your credit cards at home, and go with a budget..lol
Nice fruits you have, especially the fig! I have two..yummm

Sounds great.. I would love to see the difference after you put then in the gritty mix..

Look at Jays!..Lol..Even the nursery owner here wants me to show him how to make the gritty mix...Boy do they have it made ha..He made a bet with me since he HATES growing citrus in the winter at home..Say's it is too much work..If I get mine through, without the dropped leaves, and pests, fugus knats, and rot, he will be a beleiver..Well guess what? lol

Mke..:-)
jojosplants
13 years ago
Hi Mike,
Don't have a credit card, so no worries there. LOL! Budget? what's that?? All I can fit in the jeep? he he..;)

I can guarentee i'm leaving Mike and Jace home! LOL!

My fig is a replacement for one I had gotten in Feb. from lowes. it never leafed out. were going to get 2 more figs at least.

I'm hoping to get the citrus moved into gritty mix this week.

Have a good night guys!
JoJo
cebury
13 years ago
Beautiful trees as usual.

I have a few trees in the 4:1 CHC (husk)/Azalea mix (recommended by Millet) and they are doing excellent. I diddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd the triple rinse and Cation Exchange trick with Calcium Nitrate. It's very "weird" for me to soak that stuff, just like I do the gritty mix, and see no signs of over-watering. Of course anyone who sees either of those two mixes would think they are weird to begin with.

I tried to go without shade cloth this summer for about a dozen of my container citrus, hoping the trees would "eventually" get used to the heat and adjust, and I paid the price. I haven't lost any, but they look ugly. The heat and light stimulated lots of growth, but many leaves are burnt (bleached) curled and turned over, and I really have to keep up with watering otherwise I lose the young growth immediately after it sprouts. The south side of my yard is just too hot (130'ish) for container and young trees in the ground. Established ground trees do just fine though.
cebury
13 years ago
WOAH, sorry about that. I fell asleep at the keyboard. The excessive "ddddd" even ruined the format of the thread. I hate pain filled nights when I can't sleep.

============ ORIGINAL POST =================
Beautiful trees as usual.

I have a few trees in the 4:1 CHC (husk)/Azalea mix (recommended by Millet) and they are doing excellent. I did the triple rinse and Cation Exchange trick with Calcium Nitrate. It's very "weird" for me to soak that stuff, just like I do the gritty mix, and see no signs of over-watering. Of course anyone who sees either of those two mixes would think they are weird to begin with.

I tried to go without shade cloth this summer for about a dozen of my container citrus, hoping the trees would "eventually" get used to the heat and adjust, and I paid the price. I haven't lost any, but they look ugly. The heat and light stimulated lots of growth, but many leaves are burnt (bleached) curled and turned over, and I really have to keep up with watering otherwise I lose the young growth immediately after it sprouts. The south side of my yard is just too hot (130'ish) for container and young trees in the ground. Established ground trees do just fine though.
silica
13 years ago
Last Spring I put several of my trees into the 4-1 CHC peat mix. The growth on these trees was absolutely fantastic, far surpassed my other citrus. Actually unbelieveable. Also it is very assureing that a citrus tree growing in a 4-1 CHC mix cannot be damaged from over watering.
meyermike_1micha
Original Author
13 years ago
That is the thing Silica..

Not that I am not happy for you, in fact proud of you..

But I have asked so many times for help to be able to grow them as you say you did, and there is rarely anyone to help!
Where are the pictures of the trees, the close up shots of the CHC mix, the instructions, the fertilizer regimend you use, the step by step instructions, the suppliers, the evidence,the support...ect? Are we at the wrong forum for all the CHC experts and the pictures? Are you able to answer questions about nutritional defficiencies and how to correct them? How many did you loose over the years figuring the stuff out? Did you wash it? How do you keep the salts out? How do you keep the pH perfect?
There might be many here that are still interested at giving it a try..

My plants would of died in that stuff by the time anyone could tell me what to do..

It is nice to know some may be pro's at using that stuff such as you posted, but most and if not all the friends I know fail everytime only after a few weeks..

Many are quick to say they do well, but not as quick to offer support and the above...

Great job though at growing well in CHC..You have me beat..;-)

Mike
meyermike_1micha
Original Author
13 years ago
Cedbury: How are you?:-)

Where have you been lately? Thank you for posting and I am happy your plants are doing good!

Who is Millet?

I am begginning to think no young plant of anykind not even cactus or succulents likes any sort of direct hot afternoon sun, unless they are mature and can take it, especially in pots..It seems as if ALL my plants perform better when kept out of the sun on the hottest part of the day..

Last year many turned yellow and burnt, and got bleached leaves..My gardenias did same too..This year none of that.

Good to see you again..:-)

Mike
marcom13
9 years ago
Hello,
I'm brand new to the world of growing small citrus trees and I'm desparately trying to do the right thing. My original advice was no soil just non-soil mdium like Chc and peat mos but now I'm seeing 5:1:1 mix and I don't know how to get to the beginning of the thread to get this new medium. Help please.!!!!
Thak you,
Emmett
marcom13

Updated trees from Coconut Husk Chips to the 5.1.1 mix. Pictures

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