Hello treehaus,

I've managed to kill a couple myself, so I'm as interested as you are in finding out how to do it. It's hard to keep that wet/dry, acid/base, and calcium balance, but I suspect there's even more to it than that.

Lainey

Hi Lainey. Glad you're on board for this as well. I just potted up three small containers - two are small plastic containers, one is a shallow clay bonsai-type dish. They are potted in a very coarse mix of sharp granite rocks and sandy loam. I watered them with distilled water, and one of them I watered with distilled water with a few drops of superthrive in it. I don't know if that will hinder or help. After looking around on this forum I've seen some evidence that others have at least tried growing them potted, so I am hopeful someone may have advice.

Happy growing,
treehaus

Here is a web journal sheet that I just did up because of treehaus inquiry! Hope it helps. You can always email me for more info anytime. But I do not know all the answers. Much of my culture is experimentation. In fact yesterday (Saturday May 17, 2008) I redid some of the selags that were starting to go down. In checking out the soil mix the issue that appeared to be the source of the demise was that my mix was too sandy and the mix stayed too wet. So I am taking an approach that is similar to growing orchids. A very fast draining mix with some moisture retention but with a thinner layer of substrate to grow in. This coupled with the kind of watering I do: daily mistings several times a day and heavy watering when the pot fills lighter-is what I believe is the best cultural combination. Only time will tell as I watch how these plants react to the rather radical treatment I subjected them to yesterday. As an aside I am also experimenting with propagating them in coir. This should prove interesting and hopefully prove successful. But ??
One recommendation. Take an image of the plant after potting it to use as a reference of comparison.

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Thanks Tman,

This looks great! One question that was raised by Lainey was the matter of alkalinity vs acidity. Is this a factor that requires consideration for the potting medium these Selags need?

Thanks again.

treehaus

Tman, I would also be interested to know, do you grow yours in a green house, or outside? How much sun do yours get?

In Minnesota I have seen S. rupestris growing in cracks in exposed granite beds, where they appear to receive full sun.
Perhaps the granite keeps the roots cool in the summer, I do not know.

treehaus

In growing the selags I use r/o water. So without testing it I am guessing that the water is slightly acidic to neutral. The nex mix is probably slightly acidic because of the use of the coir. I do not really think that acidity or baseness of the soil is important. I have studied S. bigelovii growing in a debris field of limestone. What is important is the physical attributes of the substrate: porosity and aeration.
If you check out the photobucket site you will see that I am listing the species under their two sections (scientists call these sub-genera though I rather use the word section though the entire question of taxonomy with Selaginella leaves open alot of speculation on relationships.) I grow members of both the Stachygynandrum (S. kraussiana, etc.) and the Tetragonostachys (S. rupestris, etc.) The Tetras are all outside. The Stachys are mostly in the greenhouse, in my bathroom, and some are outside in containers (all are in containers, except for some plants of S. kraussian on the floor of my greenhouse).
I have not worked out the amount of daylength that is best for the plants. For the Tetras direct sun is needed for several hours each day. In my study of S. bigelovii the populations occurred in an area that was shaded during early morning, received direct sunlight from late morning into mid to late afternoon. Exposures were often southwest or eastern. I do not think it is coolness that granite beds provide the roots of Selaginella but rather a very huge surface area that water wapor may linger in. I am only speculating but I believe the plants can absorb water vapor, or rather their rhizomes can. Here is an interesting specualtion on what happens in the substrate of a natural stand of S. bigelovii:

Surface substrate of chipped limestone fragments with various large intruding boulders of sedimentary to igneous rock which may indicate lots of subterranean fracturing that may form pockets where finer soils may accumulate and/or pockets of water may reside. With rain and the rapid percolation into the substrate water is captured in the pockets, with or without soil. As surface temps rise water vaporizes creating a subterranean humidity chamber of sorts and in doing so rises up into the more surface layers. As night approaches the soil cools, the water vapor condenses, the plants drink. Also with their extensive rooting system pockets of trapped water may actually be tapped (?).

I would definitely love to see images of Selaginella population in their native habitats!!! Besides S. bigelovii which I will be journaling and posting onsite in the near future.

Here is a link that might be useful: Selaginella

These clumps of Selaginella rupestris were rooted in clusters of moss or in the scant soil between cracks in exposed granite. They appear to have only just begun greening up. Pictures were taken near a granite quarry in central MN.

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Treehaus,
Thanks so much for the excellent images.
On looking at these images my impression is that the species is densa and not rupestris even though densa is not reported from Minnesota.
Ever used a hand lens? Reason is that the main difference between rupestris and densa is what the base of a leaf looks like where it is attached to the stem. For densa the leaf is attached at an angle to the stem and is just the base of the leaf appearing cut off at the point of attachment. For rupestris the base of the leaf appears to be shaped like a raised wedge shape area with the point of the wedge pointing down the stem. If you can spot the wedge shape then it is rupestris.
If you wish you could manipulate one of your close up images on the stem to see how the leaf base looks.
The link below is an image of such a base but not a great image.

On the location. What is the exposure of the plants, south facing? Got an image of the overall population? The moss looks dry. Is there any water in the immediate area: a pool, stream, ?? If so how far away from the water are the plants?

Your images are really fantastic. Like to write?? I would like to twist your arm to write about that population with images!!!

Please do take a close look at those leaf bases as I would like to know if your plants extend the range of densa or not!!

Here is a link that might be useful:

Tman,

I took another look at the pictures and unfortunately have not been able to determine from them whether or not the leaf bases match your descriptions. It may be however, that I do not fully grasp the distinction you are referring to. I will attach below a link to my Flickr page - there you can click on the individual images of the Selaginella to see larger versions - hopefully this will reveal the details you are looking for.

Regarding the location: I found the Selaginella growing on an outcrop of granite rock that at its highest point probably rose no more than 5 or 6 feet above the surrounding landscape. I would not say the plants were growing on the south facing aspect of the rock, because essentially, the rock lacked "faces". The outcrop is smooth, and seemingly of one single formation, and there is nothing rugged about it - it has gently sloping gradations - no jutting formations or crevices or anything that could produce shade. The nearest trees are too far away to produce shade except perhaps at sunrise or sunset. From everything I could tell, the Selaginella in this location was probably exposed to the sun all day. The moss the Selaginella was growing in was very dry. I inspected the soil beneath the moss however, and found it to be very dense and cakey and not porous whatsoever, and it was surprisingly damp. There is no water in the immediate area - but there are decent sized quarry pools maybe 200 feet away. The granite was higher than the surrounding area, so there was no standing water on the granite. I don't think I have a picture of the overall population, but I will check later - the clumps of Selaginella, although relatively numerous, were each not much more than 1' in diameter a piece. For now, I have the following image which shows how dry the habitat atop the granite is.

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Here is a link that might be useful: My flickr page

THANKS! A great picture!
I downloaded a large image and will see if I can enlarge it enough to determine the leaf base characteristics. I definitely will be looking more closely at the efloras descrioption and whatever images I have linked at UBC forums.
Your observations are great. Am curious how the formation lies on the land along the North to South, East to West axis.

Forgot to note that the blue flower is a Violet.
check the link below.

Here is a link that might be useful: Viola

Just ran across the link below. It may be that one green moss growing on the rock ???

Here is a link that might be useful:

Thanks for the IDs Tman, I think you're definitely right about the flower, and that picture you found of the moss is very close to what I have up on my Flickr page - definitely the same stunning green color:

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Unfortunately I am not certain of the orientation of the granite outcrop. My hunch is that it ran diagonally from NW to SE, but I was somewhat lost myself when I arrived there, and didn't have a good sense of the cardinal directions.

Thanks again for the IDs, and let me know if you're able to discern anything from the pictures I took. Perhaps I will have to make a return trip to the granite outcrop sometime in the near future to make more thorough observations.

-treehaus

It is rupestris!. I was able to blow up the image enough to see the leaves better which can also be used in the id.
Got a compass?? Is your camera able to do close ups or zoom?
Looking at your image above I am not too sure that it is Ceratodon. Mosses can be tough especially since their appearance may be affected by their habitat. I only have limited knowledge of the native mosses but am trying to learn more as I do grow several from other states and they are all new to me. Make that learning how to grow them!!
Hopefully I will run across it as I am working on doing lists of mosses in the states that I have plants from and can review images if online. I only have a list of the mosses of Georgia up at the Georgia Botanical Society web site. Am working on a list of Utah with links to available images. I will probably put up both lists at GardenWeb.

Hi Treehaus,
Think I have came across your moss. Check out this link.
Keep in the mind that the moss is variable in appearnace according to its habiatat. Be interesting to see an image of it after it has been rained on to see how it opens up.

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:605893}}

Thanks Tman, that looks like the one!

treehaus