Oddly I was thinking about asking Sam for a scion a few days ago to try it here. I think it's zone 6 Ken.

The species is zone 5 but mine slightly burned the first winter (planted bare-root though - not the best for conifers) now they're home free.

Dax

Ken, Everyone I know of around Indianapolis has lost theirs. We have had one for maybe 5 years, in a very protected spot, and it is almost still one gallon size. I'm not certain it grows at all! Well grown it is a nice plant. Ours is neither. Jay

"ps: i am going to guess.. dave will tell me to erect a tent over it for 3 years.. to insure success .. lol"

No I am not going to tell you that.

I am going to tell you not to buy anymore because they don't like you.

Why do we loose conifers when there is no apparent problem? You don't have to feel like the Lone Ranger...it just happens. The more you have the more you loose. Simple math...lol...I'm just saying...

I just dug this one up today. In my garden 10 years. It started shutting down last fall with drying and falling needles on lower branches.

A big loss. No disease or root issues. I think a drink is in order to toast this one away. Thanks for the memories.

I got a 3. gal Picea engelmannii 'Blue Magoo' on order that should be a fitting replacement. At least that's the plan now.

Sorry to hi-jack your thread...but were friends and I gave you the best advice out there on your golden spreaders. That's what friends are for. Right?

Dave

Pinus cembra 'Chalet'.

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you cracked me up dave..

no i wont be buying anymore.. in fact.. i dont think i bought them all in the first place.. i think i bought one.. paid dearly.. and tried grafting one .. and someone may have mailed one to me for whatever reason [probably to mock me .. lol] ...

but this was back when my learning curve was lower .. so i guess the root of the question was whether i was totally at fault.. whether it was a zone issue .... or the hatred ...

most likely it was all three ... but i am not going to feel guilty anymore ...

ken

In general, it is an extremely touchy plant to establish.

They burn horribly their first few years, and quality grafting wood is difficult to come by. Best to try in an extremely shaded and protected spot for a few years, and sorry to say, but most people have best luck when they plant a #3 or larger in healthy condition. They are such weak growers their first few years, that planting a #1 into the garden in Zone 5 would not fare well.

Bought three extremely nice species NFs at an end of year blow out. Took them out of their pots, tried to untangle the circling roots, and planted in zone 4 in Nov. They didn't like it!

Two of these are still alive, about half as tall as they used to be, not counting their dead tops. So.....not the best trial, but there you are.

+oM

Don't feel bad. They die in Oregon too.They need almost complete shade for 4 or 5 years. Then they are good to go.

I have one 'Golden Spreader' that has struggled mightily for the last 4-5 years. Little die back here, broken branch from snow there. Bought as a 1 gal...still looks like a 1 gal. This past mild winter has it looking the best it ever did in March so there might be hope.

tj

brent said: They burn horribly their first few years,

this fits in with my theory that every leaf ... needle is a food making machine theory ....

so its stressed from planting .. wildly stressed if you do root surgery ...

already two strikes..

then severe leaf damage from burn for a few years ... summer heat.. winter winds.. etc ... effectively strike 3 ...

plants do have some sense of humor about insults to their will to live.. but frankly.. 3 strikes and you are out ...

mine were VERY small.. probably second year grafts at best ...

ken

Ken-

Have you tried Abies concolor 'Wintergold'? Also, how has Abies koreana 'Aurea' done for you? 'Aurea' has similar needle retention issues but is not quite as fussy. Also not as bright golden in winter. 'Wintergold' is a stronger grower, can be somewhat difficult to establish as well. Concolor firs are sensitive to poorly drained midwest soils though...

-Brent

Maybe there are other factors besides hardiness zone.

Here is one in the Denver Botanic Gardens.
Abies nordmanniana
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The 2012 hardiness zone map has Denver at 5b.
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hey brent ... showing your newness here on GW .. lol ... and i hope you know i am joking... and i appreciate your time to respond ...

answers to your questions in caps ... you said:

Have you tried Abies concolor 'Wintergold'? YES.. ALL CONCOLOR ARE WEEDS IN MY YELLOW MINERAL SAND.. BUT IT HASNT COLORED WILDLY ...

Also, how has Abies koreana 'Aurea' done for you? 'Aurea' has similar needle retention issues but is not quite as fussy. Also not as bright golden in winter. MINE IS 6 FEET TALL.. INTENSELY YELLOW .. A BEACON .. AND NEVER HAD ANY NEEDLE ISSUES.. EVER ... I HAVE POSTED PIX 100'S OF TIMES.. AND WILL POST ONE BELOW.. JUST FOR YOU .. PSSSTTT!!! ... DONT TELL ANYONE ELSE.. LOL

'Wintergold' is a stronger grower, can be somewhat difficult to establish as well. Concolor firs are sensitive to poorly drained midwest soils though... MY SAND IS ANYTHING BUT POOR DRAINING ... LOL ...

ken

on the right .. P k aruea
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concolor WG.. a long time ago ... i will have to walk out today and snap a newer pic ...

11/2006
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jan 2007 ... old camera .. and i have no clue whats up with the color on the pic
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oct 2007
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THANKS for the suggestions .... ken

Ken-

Thanks for elaborating.

Your Abies koreana 'Aurea' looks like it's doing phenomenal. Trouble with growing them is that they still have needle retention issues for the first few years.

There's something about some yellow conifers being the forbidden fruit...

Abies concolor 'Wintergold'
Abies koreana 'Aurea'
Abies nordmanniana 'Golden Spreader'
Picea orientalis 'Skylands'
Picea orientalis 'Tom Thumb'
Pinus contorta var. latifolia 'Chief Joseph'
Pinus parviflora 'Ogon janome'

just to name a few... all have needle retention/establishment issues when young, then after about 5 years of misery they start to perform beautifully!

needle issues.. lol ..

my pine .. densiflora??? .. burkes red.. and mrs cesarini ... lost every needle for the first 3 years ... lol

it never failed to amaze me.. that they actually survived...

the burkes is behind the aurea in the pix above

ken

Hi Ken, I have an Abies nordmanniana 'Golden Spreader' growing in my garden here in Omaha, NE. Mine's a similar midwestern zone 5 clime as yours. This will be it's 4th year in the ground and has been doing well in quite a bit of shade, receiving 4 hours or so of midday sun during the summer. Winter is a different story as it is in direct light most of the day unless snow covered. My soil is a loamy clay. As tj mentioned above, the mild winter this year has it going into spring looking the best I've ever seen it. Either that or it found out about the new hardiness zones and that it actually resides in zone 5b now!

From today
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From last May with some burn on the south side
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It's planted in a sheltered locale adjacent to an old declining Brideswreath spirea that I'm using as trellis for a Jackmanii clematis.
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New growth is an inch or so of lime green. People don't think it's even real.
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I'm fairly new to these forums but plan on contributing when I can. My garden is only 5 years old but I have some dwarf and miniature conifers(~75). Like everyone here, I can't wait for spring (which ain't far off now)!

jimmy

man jimmy.. that is some purple clematis .. nice pix..

i hope you do hang around and entice us with your pix..

welcome to GW conifer forum

ken

"Maybe there are other factors besides hardiness zone.

Here is one in the Denver Botanic Gardens.
Abies nordmanniana"

Hi Sluice - I'm not convinced that's A. nordmanniana, the cones aren't right. Have you got a closer pic of the cones with more detail visible?

Resin

Resin,
Here's a crop of the cones. If there's not enough detail, I might need to try again next time I'm at the botanic gardens.
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The sign and foliage.
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Thanks! Definitely not Abies nordmanniana; looks more like Abies holophylla. More pics would help.

Whether they got it wrongly labelled, or whether some kid switched labels around for a joke, no idea.

Resin

Interesting, the tree next to it was labeled Abies holophylla!
Could this one (labeled holophylla) be nordmanniana?
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Sorry, not enough detail visible in that pic to tell.

Resin

For what it's worth, I grew up at a house w/a flawless 90 footer (straight species) in z6 western MD. It was ~60 yrs old. Struck by lightning in 1985 & cut down.