To preempt anal members to the group...leprechaun dandruff was a joke!!! It is not a common organic material..

I don't think the solutions you reference are as complex as you seem to believe.

The 5:1:1 is a mix of pine fines:perlite:peat. You will need to add dolomitic lime as you would with most any potting mix. This is just like the mix you describe above except that instead of "garden soil" you are using pine fines. You can also use fir bark. I believe you will find that the bark based mixes will be far superior to using "soil" (from your garden or otherwise). So the 5-1-1 is just bark, perlite, peat and garden lime. You can find the last 3 at any big box store and you might be able to find the bark there too. There should certainly be a source in Denver. You seem to understand that using the clay from your yard is a bad idea. The clay retains too much water and is heavily compacted and difficult for the plant to operate in (lack of oxygen). That's why the mix will use bark instead of "soil." "Garden soil" in a pot will behave just like your clay - it will hold too much water, it will compact quickly, and it will not have sufficient oxygen for the plant to be healthy. Even if it doesn't look like your clay going in it will behave like your clay soon enough.

The mix some of us use for citrus is some form of the gritty mix. This might be *slightly* more involved but isn't that complicated either: 1 part each of granite, bark, and turface/axis. These components are readily available in Denver. Someone posted gritty mix sources near Denver in this thread: http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/contain/msg041917144346.html - look for the post by "oakiris." You can use substitutes for the granite. Axis (calcined diatomaceous earth) can be substitued for Turface (calcined clay).

The gritty mix will require watering more often than the 5-1-1 mix. Since you are in CO and can't leave it outdoors year round you will also have to consider drainage overflow options for the gritty mix when the plant is indoors. I find that the gritty mix is much heavier than the 5-1-1 so if you have a large tree that needs to go in and out every year you might need help moving it.

The gritty mix should perform better over the long term assuming you water as required. The 5-1-1 will likely be easier to source and will require less watering but plant vitality should be diminished by comparison.

I have quite a few citrus in both of these mixes.

I use Osmocote Plus (9-3-6) for my CRF. This is somewhat expensive at ~$15 per 5 lbs and is only available at Ace Hardware where I am. It's no longer sold at Lowes/Homedepot. It contains a complete micronutrient package which is important in both mixes since you are not using "soil."

You could put regular Osmocote (indoor/outdoor variety) in the mix which will be cheaper but then you will need to supplement with some kind of micronutrient package (Micromix or similar) or use a complete liquid fertilizer with micronutrients (some people use Foliage Pro).

For my next round of trees I will be trying Jack's Professional 25-5-15 High Performance. This is the suggested 5-1-3 ratio for citrus in water soluble form. I've never tried it. I'm not sure if it contains calcium since I can't find a label for it yet.
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I'm not sure what you think is "non-standard" about these mixes but I think you will find if you goto any reputable nursery in your area that they will use bark-based mixes. The nurseries in my area do. Bark is hardly an esoteric ingredient though you may not find it at Home Depot or etc. Why? Because people are lazy.

The reason the 5-1-1 hasn't put Miracle Gro out of business is because people want to be able to water their plants once a week or once every 2 weeks. This is what Miracle Gro mixes allow you to do. They retain enormous amounts of water so that you can be lazy when it comes to watering. People love this. Plants do not. MG used to have just plain old peat-based mixes. These already held too much water for plants to achieve their full potential and allowed people to water maybe once a week. Now Miracle Gro has peat-based mixes WITH MOISTURE CONTROL. This means they added a polymer to hold *even more water* so that you can water even *less often.* Again, lazy people love this. Plants hate this.

I don't imagine that you are actually confused by ratios but just in case I will give you what you asked for in terms of % by volume for the mixes above:

5:1:1 (5 parts pine fines : 1 part perlite : 1 part peat)
~71.5% bark
~14.3% perlite
~14.3% peat
*Add 1 TBSP of dolomitic lime per gallon of 5-1-1 mix that you make.

Gritty Mix aka 1:1:1 (1 part turface : 1 part pine fines : 1 part granite)
33% Turface (or Axis)
33% Pine fines (or Fir)
33% Granite (substitutes listed in another thread)
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Just a tip: I think you will find that people are more willing to help if you dial down the... bombast. If you have a question then you will probably do better to ask it in a straightforward way without the implications.

Many thanks. I knew the answer was out there. Now it is all in one place.

I use this on my tropicals, bananas and elephant ears. it drains well and still holds enough moisture for these plants.

5 parts pine mulch screened through 1/2" hardware cloth
1 part straight out of the bag miracle grow potting soil
1 part straight out of the bag perlite.

bought them all at lowes for about 12 dollars. I also used this on my smaller citrus a year ago before I switched to the gritty only difference was I use straight peat instead of the miracle grow. They did just fine. My potted herbs have done well in this also. I reserve the more complex high cost per gallon gritty for my more prized citrus.

Hey meyer mike, Are your trees so green because you feed them leprechaun dandruff? LOL.

mike

They should just bag the sodding thing and sell it.....Why do they sell Citrus compost when it is clearly not useful?? grrrr

If you can find a garden center to order some of the Fafard's professional line of potting mixes, you'll be in great shape. Fafard also makes a retail product but that's not what you want. It's formulated to look and act more like what the typical consumer is expecting in a potting soil. Ick.

The professional line of Heavy Weight mixes are absolutely terrific, straight out of the bag. Visit a locally owned garden center or nursery in your area and see if they won't special order you a few bags. I've never been turned down.

I've used, very happily, Fafard #3, #51L, and the Nursery Mix.

Here is a link that might be useful: Fafard Heavy weight mixes

mksmith said

Hey meyer mike, Are your trees so green because you feed them leprechaun dandruff? LOL

It is good to see somebody has a sense of humor on this forum! Life is to short to have a spike stuck up your backside!!! Meyermike please post a link to your LUCKY CHARMS GREEN PLANTS!!!

I'm not so sure Meyermikes tree's get leprechaun dandruff...

I think I read recently that Meyermikes tree's were plastic. ;-) giggle...

Gotta luv me Mike. ;-)

JoJo

JOJO there is a difference between an sense of humor and a low blow!!

well in all fairness to JOJO, i proclaimed that mikes trees are fake, kidding of course.

mike

lolol

I needed a good laugh all of you!

In defense of Jojo, being a very close friend of mine, I do have to say she was kidding around too:-)

You have all been so supportive and great with your suggestions and of course kind comments. I just pray that I can get a friend of mine to feed my plants to keep them as healthy as they are. I am seeing slight yellowing on a few:-( Yes I do Luv ya Jojo! I WISH WISH there was a local member on this forums that I could trade care for our plants.

By the way, Rhizo always comes through for those that don't care to make their own mixes and suggesting ones straight from a bag that are far more superior than the MG and certain others.

Lucky Charms Green Plants?lol. I like that

Hey, Mike...our plants ALWAYS suffer when we have to rely on others to take care of them for awhile, don't they? Just remember that even if yours do grumble and pout, it will just be temporary. When you're able to get up and around again, they'll recover quickly.

Hi Mike and Mike.. :-)
Thank you! :-)

dsieber~ maybe you don't realize what good friends me and Mike are, and I would never say anything mean towards him! I did include a smiley and giggle, to indicate a joke. So i'm not sure where you got the idea it was a low blow? but anyway...no biggie...

There are a select few I go to for plant or tree help, and Mikes one of them, he knows the other 3. ;-)

Mike,
You know I'd jump to help you if I lived closer!! Probably razz you a little about the foot too. LOL! What are friends for.? ;-) I'm sure your plants will be fine! Your probably just in a panic, not used to being tied down.

and rhizo is right, it will be temporary if they pout. You'll have them in top shape in no time!

JoJo .... I was kidding too... :) It is just that I am an old fart with limited emoticon skills! :)

Jojo: That is exactly what friends are for..lol To keep me on my toes,not the heel, literally..lol

Thanks for the encouragement Rhizo and Jojo. It means a lot at this moment. I am looking at a few turn yellow and I just know someone has to feed them. I think I have someone in mind for a small price, probably free:0)
Thank goodness I had someone to reset the water pump on my pond that redirected to shoot water right out of the pond. I have no idea how that happened, but it was almost empty this am. I could hear the fish pleading for their lives and yet the frog didn't seem phased at all.

Dsiebr> You an old fart? No...lol

Have a great night all. It is always refreshing to visit here after a long and agonizing day. Between this, tv, and reading, I think I will have to hit the gym once I can walk again. Talk about but cramps and a sore lower back from all this sitting.

Mike

A couple of other suggestions to the OP:

I use fine "Groundcover Bark" which is redwood bark that I buy at HD for $3-something per bag and gravel that I pick up in the roofing supply area for less than $3 per bag. In place of the Turface, you can use part #8822 from Napa Auto Supply or "Stall Dry" from a feed store. I have no trouble getting any of these products.

I don't bother to screen the bark either. I usually top up my raised vegetable beds with homemade compost and a couple of bags of the bark in the spring too. It works great!

jxbrown,,, you said " #8822 from Napa Auto Supply " the only thing I think is related is saw dust or kitty litter what is that stuff?

I don't know the exact term for the Napa floor dry,(#8822) but it is similar to kitty litter and is often used as a sub for turface.

JoJo

I think it's called "Oilsorb" and it's calcined diatomaceous earth. It is bright white, as is the Stall Dry (caution: "Dry Stall" is not the same thing) so somewhat less aesthetically pleasing, but cheap and easy to find.