another one of the bush tree

the new tree from home depot

and finaly the mandarin tree that i would like atleast one of the other two to look like ;)

(im really not sure what type of mandarin it is though it wasnt labled and its not given me fruit yet)

thanks again in advance its really appreciated!

Chris,

The Meyer is really more of a bush than a tree; so if left on its own, it will be bushy. To make it grow more even, try turning your pots a quarter turn every few weeks or when you think about it.

Other than that citrus can be pruned almost anyway you like, including espalier, topiary, and even Bonsai.

One caution... if you prune citrus up too high the trunk can sunburn and kill the tree. To help guard against that, you can paint the trunk with white latex paint thinned 1 to 1 with water.

thank you very much i didnt know that about the sun burn.... i will be very carefull about that!

i do how ever turn my trees already and the other two respond well to it but this peticular tree just wont grow on that lower side, usually what happends is the new growth from the higher side bends toward the sun :S if i were to trim back all the branches on the lower side like and inch or so would this possibly be able to incourage growth on that side? and now that i have a few new flowers and lemons forming on the tree should i wait until after there ripe and picked? or would the better aproach be to trim back everything and see what happens a second time? or even should i just keep triming the side that grows to discourage any new growth on this side?
thanks again
chris

Pruning does not discourage growth; normally it encourages it. Your tree is pretty small to be having fruit; if it were mine, I would wait until the bloom is finished and then remove all the fruits at pea size or smaller. If you want to leave one or two for the experience, it might hold them; but if you leave all the fruits the tree can support, a Meyer will "forget" to grow.

hmm thats good too know. why do you say wait till the fruits are at pea size? why not just remove the flowers and let the tree grow sooner? also should i remove the branch tips where the buds once where? because ive noticed in the past not much growth happens in this are after its lost its flowers.... i wasnt sure why though i just assumed the plant would know what its doing :/

My experience with Meyers is that if you remove the flowers, the tree will just make more flowers; but if you wait until the fruits are set, it will not. If you want, you can snip back the point where the buds were; back to the next leaf node that will produce an upward or sideways growth.

Perfect i will do that after the fruit set.... Thank you for the advice for my bush tree haha

Another thing ive herd is that if u just put a cut in a branch ( without actually cutting it off) u can spark a new branch to grow in a place u want just below the cut, is this true? And how deep would the cut have to be in that case?

Okay, I'm just a wee bit horrified at this severe pruning of these poor trees! Having to get over seeing this before I could post, lol! Okay, first off, citrus trees need very little pruning. I rarely prune my citrus trees, with just rare exception for some minimal shaping and with my mature trees, in pruning out interior dead wood (this I do regularly). Clm, the nodes will naturally sprout growth. I'm going to tell you this just once - step away from the pruners! Egad, let your poor little trees alone, and allow them to develop some additional lateral branching on their own. In two years, let's talk about POSSIBLY some minimal pruning for shape. And, with so very, very little canopy, (I can count the number of leaves on one of your trees on one hand), your trees most likely will abort all fruit in exchange for trying to develop a canopy that will eventually support future fruit. So, let your little trees alone for now. Water, fertilize and give them plenty of sunshine. And yes, paint their poor little trunks and branches with 1/2 strength flat interior latex paint to prevent sunburn.

Patty S.

could you post some pictures of your trees so i could have a look at what they look like when let to grow naturally?

as well i don't understand why your attacking me, i realized pruning my first tree/bush wasnt the best idea as a novice but ive done it once and havnt touched it since. now im looking for information because one side of the tree isnt growing well, still i havnt touched it yet. and the little guy whos leave u can count only got trimed back because he was almost dead when i bought him marked down from home depot. to further emphasize my point i returned there yesterday to pick up a few things and the two remaining lime trees and the one meyer were dead. not a leaf on them and the branches where turning brown. (maybe ill pass back by there tn and take a picture) but thats what heppens when u leave trees on a shelf. I bought that one as i said because of the little sprout of new growth coming up the middle that to mee said the tree could be saved, and with a little fertalizer its shot up quite nicely. my question regarding this tree is just that i want it to grow taller not wider and need some know how.

normally i would go to a nursary and talk with someone but ive just moved to a french provence and finding an english gardner just dosnt happen that often. and finding one in our area that speaks english and is good with citrus is even rarer.

Oh, clm, I'm not attacking you! I was making some fun, and I'm sorry you thought I was attacking you, not my intent! Yes, you would need to prune away any dead wood, that is always a good idea as it can be a source for insects and infection to gain entry. But it's not necessary to prune very young citrus if they're a bit uneven. And, as John has mentioned, the Improved Meyer lemon's natural growth habit is more bush-like, so I would allow it to do what it wants to do, naturally. Now, all that being said, you can prune for shape, and even what I would call "severe" shape with espaliering of citrus. Lemons and limes actually do well with this, and the Bearss lime has sort of a natural "espalier" type of lateral, 2-dimensional growth habit to start with.

So, if you're so inclined, and would like to try your hand at espaliering a citrus tree, pick up a Bearss lime tree that hopefully is already displaying some of the 2-dimensional lateral branching, and prune to espalier. Beyond this type of "ultra-pruning", it really isn't necessary to prune young citrus. I let mine grow for a bit to see it they can recover their shape themselves, then, if they are really, really lopsided, I'll either pull a branch down mechanically, so that it runs parallel to the ground to stimulate new apical branching (think of a climbing rose - you want the canes to run horizontally, parallel to the ground, so that new nodes are stimualated to act as apical nodes, and sprout new growth and flowers), or resort to some minimal pruning. Almost all plants will respond in this manner, and you can force new apical node growth from the nodes along that branch, and voila! New growth. No need to nick or cut the tree (which damages the tree, and you always run the risk, then of a portal of entry for diseases and insects). Remember, citrus are tip producers, so if you prune too much, you're going to prune away your flowers and then your fruit.

Okay, some before and after photos of a couple of poor citrus trees I had ordered, and could not pick up for a couple of weeks. Had someone holding them for me, who forgot to water them. They were in very bad shape when I finally got my hands on them. Yes, I did prune out dead wood, but that's all I did for these two trees, and they needed every leaf they had, even if they were leaves on their way out (dying). These two little trees needed as much ability to generate energy as possible, until they could recover and produce a new flush of leaves. They both were rather rare varieties, so I was determined to save them, as they were very hard to get. First series of photos is my Chironja orangelo, before and after:

{{gwi:599965}}And after (about 2 years, now). There is enough canopy growth to now support some fruit (as you can see):

And, my little Ortanique tangor, which has a more weeping structure, sort of like a Satsuma mandarin. It was in very sad shape as well, I thought I was going to lose this little tree. I think it had maybe 10 leaves on it, and was all bent over sideways. I just allowed that branch to stay horizontal, as I knew it would create those apical nodes to wake up, and send out new branches. It did in a huge way. It, too, now has fruit that I'm letting stay to maturity. This series of photos is from the start, 1 year later, then just today, almost 2 years, now:

Patty S.

Patty, that's quite a turn-around for 2 years, your trees look great.

CLM, I agree with Patty's advice regarding pruning. Citrus need very little pruning... they are the exact opposite of my grape vines!

okey i think ill do that, ill pick the fruit off after they set and see how it turns out. and if need be in a year or two ill try and shape them. thanks for the advice from all. im just glad to know my inexperience didnt kill the non growing half of my tree :)

thanks again
chris

ps patty your trees look lovely especially the Chironja orangelo. i hope mine turn out this nice ;)

Well, what I wished I'd have snapped was the Chironja about 2 months after the first photo. It was even worse. Just sticks. I was heartsick. Fortunately for me, I have this wonderful S. California sunshine going for me. That sure doesn't hurt :-) And, a lot of praying and pampering. These trees came at the time when much citrus growing and shipping got locked down due to the discovery of that HLB infected tree (from an infected graft) in Whittier. So, I knew this might be my last chance at getting both of these varieties unless I resorted to grafting my own. So, very glad to have them recover so nicely. So, now I just encourage more growth, and by doing some branch training, I've been able to get both trees to be a little more symmetrical without having to resort to pruning. At this point, both trees could tolerate some pruning for shape, now that they have a nice canopy. But, they're doing well enough and are symmetrical enough now not to need any.

Patty S.

clm, I've probably killed more trees and plants than the whole forum combined due to my inexperience :-) We all have to make it through that learning curve for sure. I'm still not always having 100% success, I tend to "over-love" my plants, and I certainly know better by now, but I sometimes can't help myself, lol! I think your little trees will do just fine, they look to be in some nice potting medium. Just keep fertilizing and watering properly, and hopefully you're in a warmer area of France so you can keep your trees outside for most if not all year, so they get lots of sunshine.

Patty S.

Between buying the trees at Home Depot and moving to a french speaking province, I would say he lives in Quebec. It is warm at some times of the year.

we get around 150 days bays between frost where i am, which yout right greg is quebec, but i had the older tree inside under a light all last winter and it did lovely even set and kept two lemons, but i didnt let them get past grape size because i thought the tree would be to small for that ... which might have been a mistake as well im not sure :/

but patty when you say branch training what do you mean? because ive herd of it before and thought it was a better alternative to pruning but really cant find much info on it. how is it done? and its amazing your tree could come back from being just sticks, i would have thought without leaves to photosynthesize the tree would be a goner, which worries me because shortly after i snapped the photo of my little tree something took a few bites out of some of the leaves and i lost all the little leaves ( now im down to 4 on the plant).... ive sprayed the tree but im worried it will make it through.... i just gotta keep my fingers crossed i guess :(

Oh, missed that, Greg, and thanks for clarifying your location, clm. As far as branch training, it's just a matter of finding good lateral branches that you want to train to run horizontally. You can the wire those branches so the are pulled down and are parallel with the ground. The goal being of course, is to have even numbers of branches to the right and left of the trunk, or equally opposing branches. For you, I would suggest a trellis that you can stake into a large pot, then plant your citrus (I do recommend a Bearss lime, as they probably have the most amenable natural form to espalier, although you could use any citrus variety.) Then, wire and tie the branches to fit the shape you're after. You'll prune out any branches that do not fit the form you're after. Its a fair amount of time & effort, but it can be fun. There are some how to's out there on the Internet. Here are a few links:

This is a Dave Wilson Nursery video about high density fruit tree planting, and there are some espaliered citrus trees in the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MP7voRKFUoE

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pdffiles/MG/MG27300.pdf

http://www.sunset.com/garden/wires-walls-espalier-how-to-00400000039492/

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/txgard/msg0915222011490.html

http://deepgreenpermaculture.com/diy-instructions/espalier-supporttrellis/

http://www.burkesbackyard.com.au/factsheets/Gardening-Tips-Books-Techniques-and-Tools/Espalier/1563

http://homesteadrevival.blogspot.com/2012/04/espalier-fruit-trees-for-potager.html

http://vimeo.com/16331580

http://www.flemings.com.au/documents/espalier.pdf

Patty S.

thanks very much for the links, i think i have some home work to do before i figure out exactly what im gonna do so i dont end up hurting the trees more then i already have..... and i will be looking into getting that lime tree as soon as i get out of the appartment im in :)

thanks again
chris