Snowden, I'm not a professional, but we did stay at the Holiday Inn in Trinidad. ;) I will confess that pic #5 was taken out the hotel window! Kmanzfive, the sunset was around 5:00pm. The facility in pic #23 is the parking lot on the volcano rim. Under the parking lot there is a sheltered bench area. It gets pretty windy up there. The lot also serves as the trailhead for the crater bottom trail, and the rim loop trail. There is a visitor center (not shown) at the base of the volcano.

Wow! What a treatI can't figure out how to update my member page with an e-mail, so that it can tell me when people add to a thread. Just realized a few minutes ago that Coralbelle and Dax had posted. Beautiful pictures are starting to form in my head. If I'm not real careful, I'll be throwing caution to the wind and going on a mail-order binge despite my best-laid plan to try to go local and do a trip to St. Louis area for more possibilities. Coralbelle- For me your several vignettes with 'De Groots' are a bonanza of ideas. SShhhhDon't tell Ken, but I'm awfully fond of fragrant hostas. Might have to tuck one or two in the shadier corner of this border. If Ken finds out, he might start tempting me with 'Stained Glass' or 'Diana Remembered', which I don't have yet. That would just add to the temptation you guys are giving me! "The third is again a trio of Spires with three Chamaecyparis pisifera (I forget the name - variegated yellow but very subtle) and a sweep of Hakonechloa macra 'Aureola.' This is a much larger vignette at the front of the house and I love it." Is this your grouping that's in the driveway border? Dax- "Make it look unusual! That's the plan right." You got it! And that's my weak point in terms of trying to resist the temptationsIt isn't clear to me yet how hard it will be to move from the notes and mental view into actual conifers found and planted in a reasonably artful way. 'Pusch' / 'Acrocona Pusch' -- Definitely a mail-order catch, right? But I do have a thing for red cones! 'De Groot's' Thuja -- This is one I'm hoping to find in St. Louis. Sounds like MBG likes it, too, but I still need to check their "Locate this plant" link. Where did you guys find yours? Okay, okay, on the Daphne. Maybe it's time to try one. Now, where am I putting it? Yesterday, I spent a little time at the ACS website, and I checked out all the Abies balsamea cultivars, thinking that these are pretty fragrant? Is that right? I think I noticed 'Weeping Larry', but I don't remember why. What's his growth rate likely to be? "Chief Joseph' sounds stunning. I think, however, you are trying to lure me into planting the whole border of my drive down to and into the hell strip. Why not, I say? Well, Hubby has to be slowly coaxed into these things, too! But maybe the Chief needs to be on my Must Have Some Day list. In my mind's eye I understand that the sharper breeds would add a hint of somethingcleannessrefinement? but for now I can resist the sharper needled forms. There's just too much I don't have. Now your hemlock suggestionwell, I just may have to have one of those. You called her a beautytwice. 'Gentsch's White' -- "soft. White-tipped and arching foliage in a globe form. A beauty." Sounds like she also needs to be on my "soft" list. Thanks again, guys. I'm wondering which I'll be able to track down. May have to give my two favorite local nurseries a call. They could "special order" for me and that might at least secure one or two of my choices or the 3 thujas that I'm still thinking might be a good start. You see, I have this gift card from Christmas And, yes, I'll keep you updated on where I go with this. Wellspring

Larry.. i will try to simplify it for you ... in a few years.. lol .. your daughter can explain it to you .. lol OD is a descriptive term .... in the olden days... you could name a plant OD .... so there was an OD in a lot of different pines ... as listed above ... they have changed the rules .. and you have to use a real name now ... not a descriptive term ... i think that is the correct way to explain it ... here is an example you might under stand ... Pinus strobus 'Dragon eye Dirty diaper' .. a descriptive term ... lol .. think about it.. rotf .... more properly it should be Pinus strobus 'Pampers' ... or P. s. 'Luvs' or or P. s. 'White Cloud' ... or whatever version you have over the pond ... and you cant have Pinus strobus 'pampers' and a pinus koreansis 'pampers' .. and P thun. 'Pampers' .... the 'pampers' part is 'taken' with the first naming ....thereby avoiding confusion ... especially in Larry's head .. lol ... and mind you, mine.. and every body elses ... your confusion is actually the exact reason for the rule change .... right resin??? any clearer ..??? ken

There are three ranks below species accepted by the ICBN; in order of decreasing differentiation: subspecies variety forma The ICBN doesn't have any formal definitions of the term, other than that they must be used in that order (i.e., you can have a variety of a subspecies, but not a subspecies of a variety). The definitions are thus open to some debate and different usage by different botanists, so what one botanist may consider sufficiently distinct to be a subspecies, another may regard as only distinct enough to be a variety. Various guidelines have been published by various botanists as to how they use the terms; the one I have always found the best is that proposed by Du Rietz (1930, The fundamental units of biological taxonomy, Svensk Bot. Tidsrk. 24: 333-428) and Rothmaler (1944, Systematische Einheiten in der Botanik, Feddes Repert. 54: 1-22), and followed by e.g. Christensen (1987, Taxonomic revision of the Pinus mugo complex, Nordic J. Bot. 7: 383-408). Summarised, this is as follows: A forma of a variety, subspecies or species occurs sporadically within the distribution area of the taxon of higher rank, and differs from that taxon in a single character. A variety of a subspecies or species is to some extent allopatric [may or may not be restricted to a discrete native area] as well as mixed intergrading populations if they occur together, and differ from each other in usually more than a single distinct character. A subspecies of a species is both regionally and locally allopatric (but may intergrade where their ranges meet), and differs in several distinct characters. Species of a genus differ from each other in numerous distinct characters. Where closely related species meet, occasional hybridisation and introgression may occur (but does not always do so). A broadly similar definition is given by Rushforth (Conifers, 1987), with the additional point that varieties do not differ markedly in ecology or adaptation, whereas subspecies often do. Coming back to the cedar thread, the four taxa of cedars in the Mediterranean are a slightly difficult case in that they do have distinct ranges with no introgression (because of sea barriers), but they do not differ in several distinct characters, nor do they show any significant differences in ecology or adaptation (the biggest difference is that stenocoma is one USDA zone hardier than the others, not a huge difference). For this reason, I consider that varietal, rather than subspecific, rank is the most appropriate. For comparison, consider e.g. Coastal and Rocky Mts Douglas-firs, which do differ in several distinct characters, and also markedly ecology and adaptation (RMDF is 3 USDA zones hardier than Coastal), so much so that neither can reproduce successfully within the range of the other. This I consider an excellent example of a subspecies (if it isn't a distinct species!). If one follows traditional classification (Cedrus atlantica for Atlas Cedar; Pseudotsuga menziesii var. glauca for RMDF), one is left with an indistinct taxon with minimal morphological and no ecological difference classified at a higher rank than a distinct taxon with strong morphological and ecological differences. Resin