organicmickie, you are too funny! I like the way you think, though! I actually have a Rooguchi, but I didn't think it would climb high enough to make an impact in the rose. I guess I was thinking with it being an integrifolia, and all.... I really have no experience with clematis. I have four of them - three of which I bought last fall and are tiny things still in pots, and the Rooguchi, which was given to me by a friend who was moving. It never got higher than about 4 feet in her garden, after several years, so I thought it would not get much higher. And yes, that is still in a pot too. Wendy, I have given thought to having more than one clematis and what that would entail pruning-wise, although I haven't come to any conclusions as to what to do yet (no surprise there!). At least Zephirine Drouhin is thornless, or nearly so, so that will help. Wendy, as far as the photo of Kacper that I linked to, keep in mind that the link I provided seems to only go to the main page, with the photos on the side constantly changing (I realized this AFTER posting it). Is it possible that when you clicked on my link that a different clematis than Kacper was showing on the page? I'm a little confused by what you are saying - the COW photo of Kacper doesn't look pink to me...? Sorry, I'm befuddled here! :) Thank you all so much for all the help and infor here. It's really very helpful! :) Dee Here is a link that might be useful: maybe this link will work better....

Yo Ken, if your still around your up on this one. Far as Composites go I am with the Larry/whoever We are for the most part. Composites are really no longer using recycled material because there is just not enough of it so most of the raw stuff is virgin,the energy used to make composite is an enviro no no, when its time to remove the project composite is not real big on bio degrade its tricky to burn shreading it would be silly. Bottom line composites are not so enviro freindly. Info like that might suggest its not all that good to clean it either, with anything. I dont agree>> composites will out last Ipe, left to go silver/gray Ipe is as close to no maintance as a person can get. With the softer composites like Choice/MoistureShield even trex= tjunk I have found a coat or two of TWP 116 seals up the decking,locks in the color and keeps mold,mildew,stains from causing major problems. Of course not needing to do this is the reason the Wallet goes for composite in the first place. I my own self dont like composites at all for the reasons stated in several posts here and on other sites. Welcome aboard Larry!!! Sorry I dident understand your intent at the begining . John

This list has been compiled from the thread started by Garden_Frog back in September 03. It is based on the membersrecommendations (names in italics). The list is organized by region (and Upstate New York is HUGE!!): Capital Region/Glen Falls , Syracuse area , Finger Lakes/Central New York, Rochester Area, and Buffalo area. Some areas are not yet represented (Adirondacks for example), but this might come! Other great sources of plants are Farmers Markets (as the one mentioned by upstategardener Christine in Downtown Rochester, or the one in North Tonawanda, Buffalo, on Saturdays, mentioned by Penny1947). Local Co-ops, too, are valuable sources. Honest Weight Co-op in Albany has really interesting choices on a day-to-day basis! So, let's not forget our "local growers"! Capital Region / Glens Falls Area Verstandigs (Delaware Ave, Delmar) Nice variety of annuals, healthy and good prices -- babanna & Anne-Marie Olsens (New Scotland Ave., Slingerlands) Healthy plants, expensive though. Nice variety of shrubs --Anne-Marie Helderledge Farms (on the escarpent near Thatcher Park, Altamont): a wonderful place, looks less like a store and much more like a garden. Very unusual plants and knowledgeable staff --Kareen & PerennialFanatic Gade Farm (Route 20 Western Ave.-just below Carmen Road, Guilderland). A great variety of just about every flower possible and a fair selection of veggies. --mcdonne ... And they have great wood fire for the winter! --Anne-Marie Colonial Acres Nursery (on Route 20 - "Western Av."-, Guilderland): Healthy plants although expensive. A nice selection of shrubs. --Anne-Marie Beckers Farm (Columbia Turnpike, East Greenbush): reasonable prices and knowledgeable staff --Kareen Story's Nurseries (Route 67, Freehold in Greene County) --babanna Guernsey's Schoharie Nurseries (Schoharie, Schoharie County-30 minutes West of Albany) They have over 100 acres of nursery. --Rockman Hewitt's (several stores around Albany) For trees......Lifetime guarantee on all trees and shrubs...Garden_Frog: Tara For bulbs: nice selection --Anne-Marie For seeds: nice selections --Anne-Marie South West Country Grown Perenials (in Walton, South of Oneonta, Catskills). The place is unbelievable. I've been getting my shrubs & perenials from them for about 10 years now. Fresh blueberries to pick, too. --LIDebbie South [Dutchess County] The Phantom Gardener Nursery (Route 9N, in Rhinebeck, Dutchess County) A bit pricey but they have a nice selection and the plants are healthy. --Rockman North/Northwest George's (on Troy-Schenectady Road, Latham): good selection of perennials, good selection of trees and shrubs, but a little expensive --LNMP & KitCatClub Faddegons (Norhtway at exit 6, Troy-Schenectady Road, Latham - huge varieties if seeking something "unusual". --Cremin Valoze's (Route 9 just past Guptill's, Latham Huge collection of small (4" pots) perennials for $2.50 a pot --KitCatClub Schulz Greenhouse (Hetchletown Road, Scotia) My all-time favorite nursery, for both selection and reasonably priced plants. Most of the stock is sold in smaller quart-sized containers. Local growers (2 or 3 greenhouses set up on his property) --mikee2 Toadflax nursery (Route 9, South Glens Falls). Directions: off Exit 17 of the Northway, head towards Glens Falls on Route 9... go by the transfer station, soon after, on the right-hand side. --adkmountaingirl A lot of unusual or hard to find plants. All plants are VERY healthy and of good size, worth the cost! Staff Knowledgeable --Garden_frog Staff go out of their way to help and answer questions! wonderful (and so healthy) selections! --adkmountaingirl Visited by Anne-Marie in September. What a pleasure! Absolutely awesome Mums Great nursery! Watkins --PerennialFanatic Meads --PerennialFanatic Garden Time --PerennialFanatic Quaker Farms --PerennialFanatic Syracuse /Oswego Area Phoenix Flower Farm (in Phoenix area) Daylilies, Irises, Peonies, Hostas, unusual shade plants. Truelly amazing place! starina Large variety of grasses Wendy_the_Pooh Also recommended by DustyDigger Country Herbs and Flowers (County route 8, in Fulton) Pretty good prices. Over 1500 different perennials and over 100 herbs. Great place --kklady Ornamental grasses, water plants, cannas, and fish for the little pond --starina Ontario Orchards (in Southwest Oswego) For trees and shrubs --starina Seneca Hill Perennials (Oswego area) My current absolute favorite for rare shade plants and perennials! --starina Grandpa's (in Sodus ) For perennials -some interesting finds --starina Seneca Trails Garden Center (off of Rte 20, outside of Oneida) --rouan FarmersMarket (right across the street from Carvel Ice Cream store on R12, in Watertown) Extremely knowledgable manager, healthy plants, good selection! --littledesertrodent Finger Lakes Region/ Central New York Bakers' Acres of North Lansing (Groton , between Cortland and Ithaca) Herbs and perennials and much more-- Wendy_the_Pooh The Plantsman (on Route 34B, Ithaca) Excellent unusual plants, great prices and very knowledgable owner --mzebe Plantasia Nursery (636 Dawson Hill Road , Spencer ) The best for dwarf evergreens, evergreens and Japanese maples, topiary and all the classic trees and shrubs --mzebe Veronicas Garden (1748 Trumansburg Rd, Trumansburg) Very good selection, organically grown perennials --mzebe Harvest Hills (off of Rte's 5 & 20 in Geneva ) --rouan Borglum's Iris Gardens (Austin Rd, Hall, south of Geneva --west of Seneca Lake) They dig the iris right out of the ground for you --misstish64 Great, and fantastic prices. He also has peonies and a few other perennials --juspeachy Dana started something new this year, he has added named iris to the dig your own bed's $5.00 a clump, & he has also gotten in to Daylilies. Great people that go out of their way to help you.. :) --nyvoices99 Anita *If you cant visit in person, go to their website! The Overlook Perennial Gardens (on Middle Rd., just out of Hammondsport) Fantastic! Small, but great plants and wonderful prices. They have some fairly hard to find plants, and Old English roses. --juspeachy Rochester Area Garden Factory ( in Gates, Just west of Rochester) Huge, the biggest in Western New York, and they have anything you could want. --yjtj Sara's Garden Center in Brockport Somewhat pricey but great sales at the end of the season. Great place to find unusual varieties -- MaryBz5NY Spring Valley Greenhouse (Daansen Rd, Walworth) Known for their clematis (actually give away free clematis on their opening day!) Also excellent for veggies --Rini & Upstategardener Have an inviting website, if you cant visit the place! Walker's Nursery in Marion Sporadic hours but great people, very direct about what to expect from plants -- they won't dissuade you from buying anything but they want you to know what you are going to get. --Rini Wayside Gardens (on rte 31 in Macedon) A bit pricey, but they have a good selection. I found herbs there that I couldn't find anywhere else. --rouan Lucus (Route 31, Macedon) Very unique plants -- upstategardener Christine Trollybed (Route 31, Macedon) Very unique plants -- upstategardener Christine Oriental Garden Supply (in Mendon) Bamboo, unusual conifers, dwarf conifers, japanese maples, unusual trees --starina Bristol's Nursery (Route 96, in Victor) Somewhat pricey but great sales at the end of the season. Great place to find unusual varieties -- MaryBz5NY --Also recommended by rouan Buffalo Area Galleys -- deg08 & husky004 Menne Nursery (Niagara Falls Boulevard, Buffalo) -- rbirch & Penny1947 Majeski Nursery (French Road, Buffalo)--husky004 Stedmans -- rbirch Adam's (in the town of Tonawanda) -- Russells (East Amherst, towards Buffalo) -- deg08, rbirch, and yjtj Garden in the Hollow (Route 5 in Clarence ) Small place for bargain hunters - smaller, healthy plants at great prices . Check out sales in the early spring on perennials. --Gertlee Masterson's (East Aurora) Good pond plants husky004 Also recommended by deg08 Johnson's Nursery (East Aurora) Unusual perennials & shrubs - very healthy. You will pay, but it's worth it. --Gertlee Boston Hills (just outside of Eden) Reasonable prices, wide variety, and great service --Glennkid Eden Valley (Eden) We are so far out in the western part of the state (Little Valley, NY that Eden Valley sounds good to me. --parmm Johnston Nursery (in Erie, Pennsylvania) Great selection, outstanding prices ( HALF the price of Menne/Adams/Russells and TWICE as large), and friendly service --Glennkid

Mine isn't orangy; the photo I posted is true to color on my monitor. It is the truest red I have in my garden, really not on the blue or orange side of things. It will surely get large enough - mine is over 8' now (after 5 years in poor soil after starting as a tiny rooted cutting), and MOBOT says that it can grow to 15'. Mine is restricted by the 5' height of the obelisk. I am not sure why many sites suggest 8' tall and 12' wide - perhaps they are going on the height of the trellis. You will need to give it something for the twining stems to wrap around, perhaps wires.