Ill let someone else anwser with more knowledge. But The water Must be change daily!! Sometimes twice a day if possible.

If the stems above the Y are thick and mature enough then cut them. If they aren't cut below. If I want to start the following season with a good size plant then I'll just take extremely long cuttings. I don't keep my cuttings in the dark so I couldn't tell you how they do. I keep my buckets near a sliding glass door which has a decent amount of light. The roots do become entangled but they aren't too difficult to tease apart besides that I usually trim off much of the foliage that has grown over the winter because it isn't very strong. I don't change the water everyday, even in the buckets that aren't aerated. I change it every few days unless it looks funky, then I'll change it sooner.

I'm not sure what zone you are in but if it's 8 or warmer your inground brugs should come back from the roots in the spring. Just mulch them well over the winter. You can plant datura seeds inground now and again in the spring. You can also start them inside whenever you want. It's hard to answer without knowing what zone you are in.
Karyn

I found the zone, Karyn. It is zone 8. Your long cuttings are how long?

My ground has tree roots and is trying to dig through wall plaster, so I have my 3 brugs in large pots in the front yard and my 6 daturas in pots in the back yard.

Karyn, if I plant the dat seeds outside in pots, the plants will survive the winter?

You were so kind to send me some Dat seeds last spring. I hope to have seeds to offer for postage in a couple of weeks to forum members. Yesterday I bought coin envelopes--I about died when I found that the smallest size box of them that I could get has 500 envelopes. Anyway, yesterday I used my first 6 envelopes to give some seeds to a friend.

Jim

Jim I've taken 4'+ cuttings and rooted them. I just cut them low on the branch, strip the foliage and stick them in a bucket. With some of my plants the growth above the first Y is still somewhat thin and green. You can stick your brug pots in a garage or the basement, anywhere that will stay above freezing and take them out in the spring. They will start growing again. You don't even need to take cuttings if you don't want to but I would trim off all the thin stems that will probably shrivel during dormancy anyway. As for the datura seed I do what is called winter sowing with some. I stick seeds in a container sometime around the end of Dec and they'll sprout in the spring. This is done outside. You can probably plant them now too as long as you don't get a real warm snap that causes them to germinate too early then get freezing temps again. You can start them inside at anytime as long as you have sufficient light. I start some inside in the late winter/early spring as well as winter sowing and direct sowing in the spring.
Karyn

Karyn, just so I'm clear, you cut the branch and stick it in a bucket--with water in the bucket? And change the water when it gets yucky?

I'm going to piut the 3 big pots with my three brugs in the garage for the winter, but it won't stay above freezing in there, since the garage is separated from the house and does not have doors on it. I hope I don't lose them.

With your dat sowing outside in containers, do you start them in tiny containers and then gradually move them to larger containers?

Jim

Jim is there somewhere you can put your potted brugs that it will stay above freezing? If they were planted inground they'd be fine but in a pot the roots might freeze. Maybe you could wrap the pots in some old blankets or something?

If I'm not using an aerator in my rooting buckets I'll change the water every few days, sooner if it looks funky. Just try to keep dropped leaves out of the water and that will help keep it clean. Yes I just stick the long cuttings right in the bucket of water and et them root.

With winter sowing I use the plastic gallon milk jugs. I split them almost in half with a bit still attached so I can use it as a cover. I sow lots of seed in each bucket, water them in and put on the cover. I pretty much ignore them until spring, just making sure they don't dry out. They will freeze and thaw several times over the winter and start germinating in the spring. Once I see any seedlings popping up I start lifting the cover of the jug, replacing it at night if it's supposed to be below freezing. I either transplant the seedlings directly into the garden or into individual pots. Last year was the first time I tried winter sowing and I had great results. Not only is it easy and saves space and time you also avoid things like damping off. You can't use winter sowing for warm weather seeds but if something normally reseeds it's a good candidate for winter sowing. You can also start more tender seeds the same way in the spring. There's a great forum on winter sowing on GW.
Karyn

You can root an entire trunk. My sister and I routinely cut large, multi-y'd trunks and root them. Planting one of those out the following spring gets you blooms a lot earlier and more often.

Here's an example from a couple of years ago. You can see how tall this cutting was. Actually it was only half the trunk. I had one grow nearly 12 ft in a season. That's the other half in the square bucket.

{{gwi:529691}}(Click to enlarge)

{{gwi:567351}} Closeup of the roots.

I potted it up in a drilled 3-gallon bucket and planted it the front yard on the 4th of May.

{{gwi:583125}}

I had my first bloom around June 8th and had several flushes over the summer.

{{gwi:583127}} This one was on July 26th.

This last picture was on cutting day, late October sometime.

{{gwi:583128}}

Impressive, no? *grin*

Did you plant it pot and all? If you did, then what is the advantage of planting them in a pot in the ground? It certainly doesn't seem to inhibit the growth any!! LOL
I am brand new to brugs and got my first rooted/potted cutting this June. I left it in the pot all summer and brought it in about a month ago. It put out a couple of buds after bringing it in and dropped all but one and it bloomed a beautiful white bloom for me. Anyway i have also received several cuttings this fall which are now rooted and I am already wondering about next summer and my planting options (ground/pot etc.)

This thread has a lot of very helpful information for us newbies!

tngreenthumb---thanks so much for the pictures--the visual really makes an impression. I am planning to plant some of my brugs in ground this spring---(my first spring)-- seeing your process is a big help! :)

daisy12, beings that we are in the PNW and Brugmansia hate to have there roots wet all the time, one needs to check & know their soil conditions. It's great to plant them into the ground in those buckets and easy to remove in case the brug startes to have a problem!! Great information for the newbies!!

greylady-gardener: Yep. Since I have had little luck getting them to return if left in the ground, I've been doing this method for a few years now. Plus they grow much better and are less susceptable to the summer heat if in the ground versus in pots. Honestly, I've never had one do well in a pot.

The holes in the side (NOT the bottom) let the roots get out into the ground which helps stabilize the plant. Come Fall I just run a shovel down the side to cut the roots and lift the whole thing. Normally I cut them back to just the first two or three Y's, but that one was just so big I wanted that picture of it. Here's a typical trim job.

{{gwi:470889}} (Click for larger)

The plants go dormant over the winter and when I put them back outside in the spring they take off. Below is an example of a 2nd or 3rd year plant. (Can't remember.)

{{gwi:559329}} (Click for larger)

tngreenthumb,
wow, that's impressive! Thanks for the pictures!
"Better to see once than hear a hundred times".

Now I know what I can do with left over kitty litter buckets!!

TGT!!! great info and great pics!!!
Chena

You're welcome!

Kitty litter, dishwasher detergent, goat feed, etc. I've even gone to Lowes and bought buckets just to drill holes in them. The thicker the better as they do get brittle over time. Just remember that the bigger they are the harder they are to deal with. A 2.5 to 3 gallon works best for me.

Oh, and it helps if you're hardy enough to wrangle them around. My sister (who lives a lot farther south) tried it once and said it was too much work.

Green thumb, thanks for the info and the photos.

Karyn, is an aerator a type of bucket? No, I don't have a place to keep the brugs from freezing. Would putting the pot in a giant black plastic bag give protection? I guess a plastic bag filled with mulch would help, but I don't want to go overboard here in zone 8a.

Jim

Jim the aerators I am talking about are the little pumps that you use in an aquarium. I just attach a length of latex tubing and let the end sit in the bucket of water that the cuttings are rooting in. I used to attach an airstone but don't bother with those anymore.

A mulch filled bag might work to keep the pots warmer. Whatever you can do to keep the roots from freezing. Elevating the containers off the ground might also help. I use the wooden palettes that tiles and other building supplies come in to set the plants that I keep in the garage on.
Karyn

tngreenthumb Thanks ! Instead of digging up my entire yard, I will try this method to showcase a few in the middle of the yard.

I like this idea!

Wondering how this will work in soil that is almost pure sand. If I amend the immediate hole, as you do, with compost, Does anyone know the extent to which the roots will grow?
I am thinking that sand could be ideal for deep roots. Where I live is near the Connecticut river flood plain, and the soil is rockless and the sand goes down forever!
This could be a great place for brugs in the soil, to tap the ground water, if, that is, they tend to send down deep roots.

Well, there's a reason I never put holes in the bottom. (Well not anymore.) They will put down deep roots and will be very hard to get back out of the ground because you can't get a shovel under them without making a HUGE hole.

They like good drainage, so the sand will help that, but I would think you'd need to ammend a decent area around the bucket in order to give them something to hang on to. But since I have mostly clay, I don't have trouble with them not being stable.

In fact, I have sat and watched them weathing servere winds and I swear they leaned into the wind. I could almost hear Wagner's "Flight of the Valkyries" playing....

tngreenthumb:

LOL. . . .that mental image is hysterical. Thanks for the giggle.

Whereas these cuttings have me imagining the Bugs Bunny theme song as I'm running around. . . . .eeesh.

I never thought of elevating the big brug pots from the concrete floor in the garage. Karyn, I'm glad you weren't born stupid !!

And seeing your photo on another string, aren't you glad that you weren't born ugly?

Had never lived in Mississippi before a couple of years ago. It amazes me. I had to water the brugs tonight because they are still growing and producing. I just came in from watering them--shorts and no shirt. I am truly blessed with brugs and dats.

jim

Jim

tngreenthumb - dang...I thought that was a pokadotted pail/bucket. There wasn't any explanation given over on the other thread. I was surprised that nobody else was curious enough about such a small pot to inquire. lol Now I know why.

You know, I have spine problems and I tell you it's easier to escavate the near surface scrawling bigger roots and wrap them around the root ball and put them in a pot then to do it your way. Mind you, I also want them big and it was a real hard time getting it in the pot. Those bigger roots just don't bend. I have no idea how much root damage was done, if any. I'd definately go for your way in a similiar sized pot if it weren't for the limiting size of the tree and my muscle power.

And putting aside a lack of muscle here...From my biggest I'd have to cut 1" roots off in order to get mine in a pail that size and chop 2 of the 3 main branches off which are currently 4-5.5'- I just measured them for first time and after chopping off the Y (I want it taller or at least have cutting for next spring stored differently than in water).

Do your outer roots not dry up? I'd grab an appropriate sized plastic bag or two and get as much of those outer roots in. Your choice as to whether or not to seal, chance of mold and things will grow if not all sterile. Or stick them in a nearby pot. Water them when you do your pot, I don't believe it'd hurt the root if not all of it was in the bag as long as water was coming through on it's end. OR...pot it in a bigger pot just for winter storing. Then I could get more size on them.

How much water do you give that little bucket during winter storage?

Oxmyx - I have messages/reply spread the forum for you. But regarding your sandy soil. I'd be adding some real soil in the compost and sand. At least 5 inches deep and at least 3' around. The hole I'd make if I were you, 18" deep and 2' across with your mix. I'd personally only go about 1' deep. Pail or no pail. I only need to dig so deep as I haven't found any bigger sustaining sized roots very deep at all...not on the 2 that have them anyway. They all do eventually grow bigger roots, as Karyn has kindly informed me but I don't know if they're all surface sprawlers.

Ya'all are just lucky I'm bored and need to feel useful.
Sharing my resourceful mind - Sandy

Oxmyx - I wouldn't worry about finding all my post, sometimes I think I submitted and jump back to the main forum before checking the thread out. But do see the one at
Characteristics of 'Wanted brugs' it answers the reasoning for my user name.

Sandy even when you don't sink the brugs in a pot you don't need to dig up much of a root ball when lifting them for winter storage. The roots will regenerate without a problem. If you are planning on keeping them growing without a dormancy period then more roots are necessary. You can also remove a significant portion of container plant roots. I have some that have outgrown their 30 gallon pots and I can't go any bigger. I slid them out of the pot and sawed off a good amount of the roots and repotted them, all look great. It's not worth killing your back tring to lift a big heavy root ball. I've had my share of back problems too. I think many of us have but we still keep lugging around our plants. lol
Karyn

Thanks Sandy and Karyn. I was still wondering - where do you put that shovel when you go to dig them up?

I was hoping it wasn't 1 foot for every two feet of growth or something - I was going to be in big trouble! (grin)

I wanted to put mine in the ground next year to see if they like my dirt better.

thanks sandysseeds007 I appreciate your input
I generally will load the beds with a ton of compost, thats why things grow so well here. As far as real soil mine is 8 inches of silty to sandy soil, and with the large amount of compost I put in each year I expect the brugs will get huge. As an added bonus, from reading here and my gut feeling, the pure sand under the plants (down 8 inches) will allow great root expansion, but I will have some trouble digging them up. up.

It ain't no picnic with my spine either so I guess the tng's in ground pot with no hole in the bottom will only be for certain areas, since you have convinced me I need to make a larger hole, thus I might as well just dig up the whole area..
Dang the large beds of brugs I plan will be a real drudge to dig up!

sandy: Sorry, I thought I mentioned the drilled holes in the bucket. (I usually do.) I root prune them after I get them out of the ground. I take a sharp knife and slice them off even with the sides of the bucket. That also helps start them towards dormancy.

I'll water them good before putting them into the basement and then again as needed but not so often that they try to keep growing. They slowly go dormant as I back off the watering.

As for surface roots, you have to remember that these will make roots anywhere the trunk is in contact with damp soil. (Which makes it easy to make new plants by air layering.) So while the don't normally grow roots on top of the soil, they do have them close. I often find them winding out through the mulch.

What in the world is air layering?

I'm sure it's not like an "air feeder". When silk plants were coming out, I bought a nice fern. Didn't know it was silk and asked the nurseryman what to feed it. I remember his smile as he said, "Nothing, it feeds on air." Well, dumbass that I am at times, I thought he was being literal.

I was growing hundreds of african violets at the time, and little old ladies would stop at the house to look at my violets. Often they'd ask me what kind of fern I had, and I would proudly tell them, "It's the new type of air fern" and then explain that it didn't need regular food because somehow it fed on air. Of course I thought that "Science!" had somehow bypassed the need for the Krebs cycle and the acetylcholine chains that I had had to learn in Biology.

Two years later someone who knew a lot about plants was at the house, and I asked her why my air fern had not grown. It had not lost any leaves, but had not grown either. I thought that I had it in a bad location because it had not grown, though the color remained vibrant green.

I'll never forget the look that my friend gave me. It was the body language equialent of, "Jim, sometimes you can be such a dumbass."

I got the message, but didn't know why the message was sent. I dropped the subject, but returned to it when she got to the front door to leave the house. Asking her again for how to improve my plant, I still remember her placing her arms around my words as she hugged me and quietly whispered the answer into my left ear.

My ears were red for hours.

Jim

ROTF - oh Jim, we've all been there! That is just too cute.

Years ago, I had a friend who watered all my fake ferns inside while I was on vacation. He said he was mortified when all this water came running down from my suspended cabinets and onto the counter, in the doors, onto the floor. . .

And then - as we were laughing, he sheepishly advised me not to plug in my neon floral arrangement for a few days. LOL. . .

Damn I think I fell for that air fern, and bought one once!

So funny Jim.

Jim, I think we've all done something like that at one time or another. Most of us just won't tell anyone about it.

Layering is often used to propagate roses as all you have to do is bend a cane over until it touches the ground and put a rock on it. A couple of months later it will be grown to the ground. This would work with brugs, but they dont bend well once they get going. So I came up with the following way to layer "in the air" so to speak.

The images below will illusrtate what I'm about to describe.

A toilet paper tube was split and then cut in half to make two cylinders. For this experiment I used a rooted trunk that was coming out of dormancy early in the basement. It had two nice shoots going already so I used those. This particular plant roots pretty easily, so the timing shown below would probably not be as fast with a more difficult plant. But it should work.

The tubes were taped around the shoots right where they came off the trunk. They could be placed anywhere, this is just where they started to go straight up. I then packed the tube with wet potting soil. And I mean wet. I had to squeeze some of the water out to make it moldable, but it was still pretty wet. Then I wrapped it all with plastic wrap to hold in the moisture and secured that with the Velcro strips.

The plant was kept under a light on a timer. I made sure the trunk's roots had water as it was sucking it up pretty well. Basically I just monitored the pottiong soil to make sure it stayed moist. With the plastic wrap I think I only added water to them once or twice in a monthÂs time.

Once you can start seeing roots in the potting soil, itÂs time to unwrap. I let these go for a bit past that as I was busy, but that just lets more roots grow. I then cut them off the mother plant and potted them up and by mid May they were nice sized plants ready to take to our bi-yearly plant swap.

{{gwi:560279}} {{gwi:560282}}

{{gwi:560284}} {{gwi:583129}}

{{gwi:560286}} {{gwi:583130}}

My sister, who lives further south, has been doing something similar with full trunks. Since her's come back from the roots, she takes a one gallon pot and cuts a hole in the bottom and splits it up the side. Then she wraps that around a trunk and fills it with dirt. By the Fall it has lots of roots and she just whacks it off at ground level just below the one gallon pot and mulches over the root ball. The now rooted trunk can be potted up and is ready to go in the greenhouse to be planted out the following spring as a full grown plant. And the mulched root ball will send up a new shoot which can be air layered again.

If anyone is interested, I have this and the bucket growing method in PDF files. Shoot me an email and I'll send you a copy.

TGT - got both the PDF. Thank you!

Very easy for a "beginner" like me to follow. Appreciate it!

Green thumb, THANK you for all the time and effort you put in, above. I couldn't get the pdf. I'll try again later.

Jim