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Niobe, Rhapsody won't grow tall

16 years ago

My established Niobe and Rhapsody are only three and half feet tall. Fireworks finished blooming and has few stems up the lattice but the other two just won't grow up.

If I prune them now or next week after blooming will they still bloom this year.

Here's Rhapsody:

{{gwi:615308}}

Thanks.

Millie

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Comments (17)

buyorsell888
16 years ago
Most people complain about Clems growing too tall and having bare bottoms.
nckvilledudes
16 years ago
Looks like it is doing fine. I agree with BorS--most people complain about a clematis growing too tall and getting leggy.

As to whether the plants will rebloom if cut back now that they have finished blooming, the only real way to tell is to cut them back and see. The length of your growing season will determine this. Also give them a high phosphorus fertilizer and keep them watered well and the plant will do what it can. You might just be surprised. What do you have to lose by trying?
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Are the stems touching something thorny, like a rose, barberry, or thorny tall berry stems? A few days ago I noticed that the tallest stems of my Hagley Hybrid were drooping. Ah ha, give it water. But we just had 4 days of rain. Still drooping today, but the shorter stems which were not touching the rose stems were fine. So I took off the twisties I had fastened the clem to the rose stem, and shoved a 4 ft trellis between them, I remembered that someone on another forum had a wilt-like problem with one of her clems that was brushing against her barberry in the wind. Other people talk about growing roses with clems, but I guess it was pretty dumb to tie them together. I may lose the droopy stems, but at least it won't suffer further injury, I hope. I'll have to be carefull in the places where a blackberry seed left by a bird has turned into Many tall blackberries taking over more & more of my flower beds. In some ways I would like to get rid of them, but it is nice to have free fresh fruit when the berries ripen. Will have to trim back the parts that dare to get near my clem vines as I do with the branches heading toward the paths, Marie in ME
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Carolyn, none of the clematis you are planning on planting are ones that get monstrous and therefore aren't likely to smother an arborvita hedge or cause problems with dieout on the hedge. If you were trying to grow one that got as big as say sweet autumn clematis or another of the species such as orientalis or that type of clematis, I would be somewhat concerned about the shade provided by the clematis on the evergreen causing brownout on the plants. The only thing to consider is that the two clematis you mentioned are type IIs and really don't get pruned back in late winter. If you have to prune your arborvita hedge back to keep it in shape, you could delay or forestall the blooming on your clematis depending on when the hedge is trimmed back. If you don't prune this hedge, then you don't have anything to worry about. As far as the hedge and the clematis competing with each other especially for water and nutrients, that is something that is definitely going to happen. You can easily remedy that by providing the plants with enough water and nutrients--especially the first couple of years the clematis are planted and getting established-- and also provide the clematis with exta water during times when you don't get much rainfall especially in the summer. Things to consider when planting your clematis to grow on the hedge. First, are the hedges at their full height and width. If not, plant the clematis far enough away from the arborvita so that once they are at full maturity, the arborvita won't be right up next to or covering where the clematis are planted. You can easily lead the clematis into the arborvita with a garden stake or even rig up wiring to the arborvita. Secondly, if the arborvita are dense type plants, realize that the clematis will essentially grow up and over the plants and not necessarily through the branches. Lastly, if at all possible, plant the clematis on the shady side (north side) of the arborvita because the clematis will grow towards the sunlight so will grow around towards the front of the arborvita. Good luck with your clematis!
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I have found that Salvia Black & Blue is a bit floppy in part sun in my experience. It does seem to like a fair amount of water in my garden, foliage looking a bit tattered and not blooming quite as well if it doesn't get regular moisture. I grow it as an annual and can't imagine my garden without it. I saw it first about 5 years ago and it was love at first sight; I've grown it every year since then in large pots where I can enjoy the hummingbirds coming to visit it. I was thinking along the same path as T2D, though not sweet autumn since it can be a seeding nightmare in warmer areas. There are a bunch of less vigorous, long-blooming clematis in blue shades: Rhapsody has a reputation for really long bloom and a lovely mid-blue to blue-purple color. Venosa Violacea is another stunning one, with a wide, deep-purple edging that bleeds into white tepal centers. VV will bloom from July through August in my garden, and Rhapsody (though I don't grow it) should provide at least some flowers virtually all summer with heavier flushes at times. Both are fine in part shade and have the potential to get 10 to 15 feet, but you could either give them a good-sized oblelisk or as T2D suggested give them some string or netting to help them along your porch railings. If you don't want to look at dead vines all winter, both can be trimmed to a couple of feet for winter (and VV really should be) though it will delay Rhapsody's bloom start a bit if you do that. Clematis does like more moisture than iris and shouldn't get dry (regular moisture and mulch are recommended) so for either clematis or if you decide on the Salvia B&B you might want to put in a loop of soaker hose under the mulch to make watering easy if there isn't regular rain. If you want to restrict it to the obelisk, there are shorter clematis that should bloom well, particularly some of the ones that were developed by Raymond Evison which along with their sales names will have a name that has Evipo and a number. Alternatively, ones bred by Kivistik tend to stay below 6 feet at most and have a reputation for being great plants. Below I've given you a link to a good source of the Kivistik clems. With clematis, you should plan to either get a good-sized plant or expect to wait a couple of years for the plant to grow to a good size. It's worth the wait, however! Here is a link that might be useful: Kivistik clematis at Hummingbird Farm
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jeanne_texas
16 years ago
What do you mean by your established Clematis?..How old are they?..They look fine to me..do you fertilize them??...You might try just pruning back a few of the vines to see their reaction...I hard pruned my "Ramona" the first year ..she showed me her gratitude this year as I let her grow and didn't prune...Jeanne
carolfm
16 years ago
My Niobe has never gotten very tall and it has been planted for years. It twines up a trellis and around a climbing rose and it usually tops out at about 6 feet. Your clematis certainly look healthy.

Carol
millieon
Original Author
16 years ago
Ernest Markham is one of those that grows tall and blooms only on the top as I have had him too. Just bought him again last week and will see how he does at this location. Bought few others too.

Rhapsody was moved with me couple of years ago and was pruned by mother nature last spring so this spring it was not pruned at all. It does look healthy it's just I was hoping it would fill out the trellis.

You are right the only way to find out is to try it, will cut few stems and mark them to see if they bloom again. There are still buds that have not opened and spent bloom have been deadheaded.

If Niobe gets to be six feet tall that would be fine with me.

Thanks for responding.
millieon
Original Author
15 years ago
Hi,
Just wanted to report that my Niobe and Rhapsody Clematis grew taller this year.

{{gwi:615309}}

{{gwi:615310}}

...and same with "Fireworks".
{{gwi:615311}}
Millie
jeanne_texas
15 years ago
Millie..How beautiful..they tend to grow taller and wider with each passing year..congrats..Jeanne
buyorsell888
15 years ago
They look wonderful being full and lush at the bottom.
hoovb zone 9 sunset 23
15 years ago
They look great!
millieon
Original Author
15 years ago
Thanks for your comments!
flowerfan2
15 years ago
Wow beautiful clematis. Do you hard prune them every year to the ground? They look great.
millieon
Original Author
15 years ago
Thanks flowerefan2! Mother Nature does it for me. So far they have all died to the ground at this location. Don't understand as this is a warmer climate than my previous location. Will see what happens next year.
Millie
buyorsell888
15 years ago
Are you sure that third one is Fireworks? Mine has a dark bar on it that your doesn't seem to have.

Here is a link that might be useful: Firerworks at Brushwood
millieon
Original Author
15 years ago
Buyorsell. My "Fireworks" looked like the one in the photo too in May but it has been in bloom already for a month and the first blooms did have the dark bar.

Here's a photo from last year.
{{gwi:615312}}
Millie
fernzilla
14 years ago
Hello:

Both Niobe and Rhapsody are small Clematis vines thier
average height is 6 to 8 feet.
harryshoe zone6 eastern Pennsylvania
14 years ago
Rhapsody is my slowest growing clematis. It is also the first of the large-flowered clems to bloom. This year I cut it back like a 3 and it seems to be getting taller. I tried to treat it as a 2 last year. It would probably help if I knew what I was doing.
jeanne_texas
14 years ago
Harry..don't feel bad hon..Clematis "Rhapsody" is not as vigorous as others in my gardens either and I've had him for 5 years..hard pruning will only force him to throw out more vines..and that is a good thing...Jeanne

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