Medonto: I agree with all of Trudi's suggestions, but I have said on this forum the best marker is one from Lee Valley. I just removed some from my front bed today that have endured two winters and last summer and look as good as when I labeled them. I use pieces of plastic from fabric softener bottles, but they also work on popsicle sticks. You can remove the ink with acetone (nail polish remover) and re-use or keep them for annuals/toms/veggies which you sow every year. You could also use Trudi's idea and label on the underside. I did that my first year, but did not like the idea of having the lift the entire container up to see what was inside. Good luck with the ID's. Northerner.

Beachface, I like your moniker too! Makes me smile to think about just what that would look like! =) I few additional remarks, that I forgot before (senior moments!)...because these plants look somewhat like flowers (we DO call them "rosettes"~so that can confuse), I can see why you referred to the leaves as "petals". Folks will figure out what you mean, unless, of course, there are blooms in the pic as well. If your Mum was growing these for a few years, chances are these two are the same plants. Sempervivums are known as Hen & Chicks (some call Echeverias by the same common name, not helping with the confusion), because their growth habit is for the main plant to be surrounded by chicks/pups/rosettes. The one on the right, with leaves more upright~is showing it is healthy. The one on the left looks sad. Perhaps the root system isn't as well-developed as the other. Its limp look is how sad Echeverias look as well (why I said it might be one). Either way, the one on the left needs more of something...roots, sun, etc...to get happy again. :P Thank you, Karen, for your kind words. =) Rhamel (TG), and anyone who cares to listen/read, a few tips for responses to folks asking for IDs: Goodness knows I am not always correct with IDs I've given. :) Folks here will help keep me honest & call me on it if they believe differently. Sometimes I'm in a rush & didn't look into it properly. If I believe a plant is in a certain genus (as you indicated), I usually try to do a bit of research to see if I can find several examples of plants I believe are the same. If you think the plant is other than what someone has stated, you make your case by backing it up with evidence. You can give a link to photos of plants online, refer to plants found in books, give a genus name (species, too, if you think you know it) & why you believe it is so. Of course, the original poster will have to do their homework as well, checking out suggestions given. You can ask questions of the OP, as to details of their plant (size, texture, habit, look of it at different times of the year, flower shape, bloom color, hairy/smooth, etc.) to narrow down its identity. For example, right now I can ask Beachface if the edges of the leaves have any cilia (tiny hairs-you can feel with your finger/use magnifying glass) on either or both plants? If cilia is present, it indicates Sempervivum (in this case-could also be present on Aeonium). If no cilia, then not Echeveria. Getting a little long-winded here. Better get off the tutorial box.

Hope all the boys with their injuries are getting better. Yes they will always call and sometimes if the child acts funny they will really make your life miserable. You would think that boys never have accidents they way some of them can act. I was always at the school for some bruise or another with my two and they usually did it to each other, lol. They fought all the time and still don't get along. John says his oldest boy was always good. He said when they went to someones house they could have a box of toys right in front of them and they wouldn't move from where he told them to sit unless he told them it was ok even if the other person told them it was ok to play. I told him thats because he trains us all like the dogs, lol. He makes you want to mind him, lol. I often wonder if my boys would have been different if I had met him sooner. It has surely helped with my daughter. She acts very different around him than she does with her father and he will do anything in the world to please him. I thought he was going to faint when he heard her back talk her father on the phone once, lol. He just expects you to behave and thats it they do it, lol. Even my boys don't act up in front of him. His younger son got arrested once and sat in jail 3 days and wouldn't call and tell him until his brother found out and called us, lol. He would have stayed there forever rather than tell his father he got in trouble. He gets this look on his face and it makes you stand up straighter, lol.

Herman, I'm not sure whether it's breba or main crop...I just assumed it was breba, since it's coming out early. But, 'm not that knowledgeable about about this in general. I'm interested to hear more about your last sentence..." Of course If yours doesn't drop main crop at all that will be very important,but I wouldn't commit to grow it again only if I am sure of it." What do you mean that it would be important if it doesn't drop? Also, what do you mean that you wouldn't commit to growing it unless sure? Thanks, Geoff