THIS IS AN EXPERMENT ON POSTING PICTURES ON MY PART.

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ABOVE -- MEIWA KUMQUAT TREE / BUSH GROWN FROM SEED 13 MONTHS OLD.

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THIS SHOW THE NEW SHOOT TAKING OVER AS THE MAIN TRUNK INDICATING THAT MEIWA MAY TAKE BUSH FORM

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MEIWA KUMQUAT TREE FROM SEED SHOWING NEW BRANCH. BUSH / TREE IS IN CLEAR MAYONNAISE JAR

I ALSO AERATED THE ROOT WITH A BLOW DRYER TO HELP KEEP AWAY ROOT ROT PROBLEMS AND TO PROVIDE FRESH OXYGEN THAT THE ROOT NEED FOR GOOD GROWTH. THE TREE TRIPLED ITS GROWTH RATE WHEN I STARTED AERATING. AT THIS TIME I STARTED GROWING 2 MORE KUMQUAT TREES OF THE NAGAMI TYPE. THEY ARE GROWING MUCH FASTER THAN MY MEIWA PLANT GREW LAST YEAR.

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HAIR DRYER AND JAVA CONNECTOR PIECE TO AERATE THE SMALL TREES

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THIS SHOW HOW THE AERATOR WORKS.

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THESE ARE THE PARTS RO THE LARGER SEED GROWN MEIWA KUMQUAT TREE / BUSH.

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THE MEIWA TREE / PLANT GOES INTO THE ADAPTER WITH A 2 INCH HOLE IN THE SIDE FOR THE BLOW DRYER TO GO.

TO AID IN ROOT GROWTH AND DISEASE CONTROL I USE A POT WITH ABOUT 45 DRAIN HOLE IN THE BOTTOM AND ANOTHER 45 CIRCLING THE SIDEWALLS THIS ALLOWS ME TO DRAW AIR THOUGH THE LOWER HALF OF THE POT TO GET THE MOISTURE DEEP DOWN WHERE THE ROOT ARE JUST REACHING THUS KEEPING THAT AREA FRESH AND OXYGENATED.
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THIS SHOWS THE HOLES IN THE BOTTOM OF MY SEED GROWN MEIWA KUMQUAT TREE.

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THIS SHOWS THE SIDE WALL WITH IT DRAIN HOLE. THE HOLE ARE .125" DIA. I CAN USE THE HAIR DRYER TO FORCE WARM AIR UP TO TOP OR I CAN USE A RAG TO SEAL OFF THE TOP SO THE AIR RISES AND GOES OUT THE SIDE WALL HOLES. THIS KEEPS THE SOIL AT THE BOTTOM FROM TURNING SOUR.

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PEANUT BUTTER JAR WITH NAGAMI KUMQUAT TREE / BUSH. I HAVE 2, BOTH IN PEANUT BUTTER JARS.

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THE AERATION HOLES FOR THE SEED NAGAMI KUMQUAT TREE. ALL 8 OF THE NAGAMI KUMQUAT TREE SEED WERE MONOEMBRYONIC. THEY WILL NOT BE TRUE TO SEED BUT SHOULD WORK WELL AS INTER-STOCK TO BRIDGE MY MEIWA TO PONCIRUS TRIFOLIATA GRAFT. MEIWA TREES ARE VERY HARD TO GRAFT DIRECTLY TO P.T.

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THE MEIWA TREE IN IT'S POT FITS INTO THE BROCCOLI GROW LIGHT BOX TO WARM THE ROOT TO 85 DEG. THIS REALLY KEEPS IT GROWING FASTER WITH LESS RISK OF DISEASE..

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SHOWS SEED GROWN MEIWA TREE WITH THE LIGHTS ON TO SEE.

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COMPLETE SET UP. THE LOWER BUCKET IS LINED WITH ALUMINUM WHILE THE UPPER ALUMINUM LINED BUCKET CONTAINS A 5300 K BULB WHICH GIVE 650 LUMENS LIGHT.

This post was edited by poncirusguy on Mon, Oct 28, 13 at 22:21

GROWING A HAPPY MEIWA KUMQUAT TREE ON IT'S OWN ROOTS FROM SEED.

My home made soil mix drains very well and uses no purchased materials. I use rotted leaves from compost and rotted wood from hollow trees for the bulk I add a substantial amount of river bank soil for the Teays river valley, but any river will do. Small amount of hard pan clay for nutrients. Crushed brick shards from 1/4 inch to 3/4 inch. Experiment with you own mix.

I plan to grow my trees in 60 inch boxes so purchasing soil is not an option I will start out from scratch to perfect my formula. If I can grow a kumquat tree on it's own roots I will be able to grow any citrus from seed. Below is a link to Dated pictures of my seed grown meiwa tree 1 month past it's 1 birthday / sprout day / germination day. All the picture are of the same tree.

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GROWING KUMQUAT TREES FROM SEED SUCCESSFULLY ON A SHOESTRING BUDGET

Let me know if you don't have access to hard pan clay. I'll put some on Ebay For bidding on. You pay shipping costs.

EXPERIMENT WITH LINKS TO SLIDESHOW WITH 8 MEG-PIX PHOTOS. use left or right arrow keys to move to next pic. Thumbwheel magnifies pic

Here is a link that might be useful: https://plus.google.com/photos/111099372377958308731/albums/profile?banner=pwa

More testing on my own tread to see if I can make things easy.

this is the slideshow link to aerating the root.
http://s1094.photobucket.com/user/wreristhechimney/slideshow/AIRATING-THE-ROOTS%20POTTED-PLANTS

below is a picture link of the same thing without slideshow.
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use of blow dryer to provide air to citrus roots 15 sec blast 3- 10 time depends on tree size.

below is a slide show link to my meiwa tree

http://s1094.photobucket.com/user/wreristhechimney/slideshow/Seed%20grown%20Meiwa%20kumquat%20tree

next is a picture by picture listing of the same.

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this is meiwa in foil bucket with foil bucket light removed.

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younger tree with limbs being spread.

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my favorite picture .

below is high res. link to google imag.

https://plus.google.com/photos/111099372377958308731/albums/profile/5862762593941435714?banner=pwa

hear are picture of bucket light with difrent plant setups.

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fig tree sharing bucket with nagami and sweet lee

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Array of light over broccoli with meiwa tree root pot getting warmed by lights and bucket lights over it
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light off meiwa tree

Slideshow link to bucket light system
http://s1094.photobucket.com/user/wreristhechimney/slideshow/shifting%20the%20bucket%20lights

New ideas for growing kumquats from seed or rooted cuttings. I have transplanted my 2" to 6" sweet lee tangerines and nagami kumquat from 12 OZ plastic cup to one gallon food cans about 6 " diameter by 8" length with the bottom out and staked to the ground. The can is filled with my fortunella formula soil as described above to the top of the can with a 1/4 inch of the tree root showing. This eliminates the biggest problem with container growing, the mucky sour soil at the bottom of the container. There is no dam to hold water back from draining through naturally as it would in soil I'll add pictures later when the job is done in about a week from now. Mean while click on the link to see what pictures I have

Here is a link that might be useful: https://plus.google.com/photos/111099372377958308731/albums/5869826671114565057?banner=pwa

I am now trying to root a twig of my meiwa kumquat tree in a home design rooting chamber. See the picture below to see set up.
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the chamber consists of a yogurt cup for the base and an 18 OZ peanut butter jar That fits tightly inside the yogurt cup with a snap. I used sand as the planting medium. I got the sand by sweeping the street gutter and collecting the sand. I steamed the sand and placed. it in the yogurt cup, then dipped the twig in rooting hormone, and planted it . after closing up the plant with the peanut butter jar I placed it in a north window to avoid bright light The purpose of the dollar bill in the picture is to show a. dollar not spent is a dollar earned.
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The tree to the right was trimmed at the burned spot oin the trunk

The meiwa twig started growing two buds then turned brown and moldy looking and died.

from talking to others and my own experience, I find that if you want to grow citrus north of zone 8 at a rate that will allow you to pick fruit with in your lifetime, that you must provide artificial light. through out the indoor season. This may not be necessary if you live out west,as there are no cloudy days and lean-to green houses work really well. As for those of us in the east it's inside for the cold and lighting.

In INNER city cincinnati we have a zone of high 6a and an AHS heat rating of 7. My house on the south side takes me to zone 6b AHS 8. That AHS of 8 is the real kicker for citrus up north.

What I get is 2 months of excellent citrus growing temperatures, proceeded by 1 month of just adequate and followed by one month of the same, the beggining of the season the month is mediocre at best with in and out of the house with the trees. The last month is just as bad.

The winter months under lights bring 16 hour days at good growing temperature. This should be when the trees grow the most and when we northerners can catch up with the south. My meiwa and nagami kumquat tree grew the best and my sweet lee tangerines also did much better. We are already in june and the long range forecast has us in just so so temperatures. my trees are screaming 'UNCLE' Help me. But I am powerless to help.

Hears what I did.

{{gwi:570204}} roots at 70 F tree at 90 F

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pepper plant's heat warms roots of kumquat tree in the bucket light setup above.. warming roots above 70 did not help noticeably.

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Fig tree grew faster than in sunlight at 90 F.

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hair dryer with coffee cup connector use to blow warm air through roots

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tree in place getting aerated.

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meiwa tree getting aerate tree grown from seed.

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Meiwa kumquat Tree inside foil bucket. Seed grown.

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First picture of meiwa at 7.5 months old

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growing in window sill facing south. Bucket light is now added.

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Growth has accelerated. and third trunk visable

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New trunk is over taking two original trunks.

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New trunk has over taken to be dominant.

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meiwa tree in rapid growth.

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meiwa tree s spurt of growth slowing.

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Meiwa tree has put on 18 inches out of 30 inches in 3.5 months. IN THE WINTER TIME UNDER LIGHTS IN CONTROLLED CONDITIONS. here is where we catch up

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meiwa kumquat tee from seed has budded over

Here is a link that might be useful: http://s1094.photobucket.com/user/wreristhechimney/slideshow/Seed%20grown%20Meiwa%20kumquat%20tree

all my citrus is now outside on my roof in one general area. Moving citrus is very difficult and requires a plan and patents. What I did was very stressful on the tree. I started taking them out in late march when it was warm and inside when it was cold for two months. The tree made the transfer with 10% of its leaves intact. It is sprouting out real well but would do much better if we had tempersatures in the 80-90's las year. The picture in my last entry is meiwa at its peak.

see picture below to see meiwa today

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meiwa kumquat grown tree from seed whole tree

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above top 2 sections of the potted Meiwa tree
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below my othe 6 citrus
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nagami and sweet lee tangerine in ground
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Nagami and meiwa in plastic bucket with nagami in salad dressing gallon container. Steel food tins with bottom removed hold sweet lee tangerines. All growing well but none look as good as april.

This post was edited by poncirusguy on Sun, Oct 27, 13 at 21:52

A new potting Idea that uses scraps and trash to make a 170 gallon kumquat tree pot/container

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The 55 gallon half barrels will have will have 500+ holes about 1/8 " diameter in the side walls and about 200 holes in the bottom. the platform in the center holds the base of the tree from dropping as the soil recedes. no need to dump the tree out to get soil under neath. this will fit on a 4 by 4 skid for a forklift

The meiwa regrowth is slow but progressing, see below.{{gwi:576608}}

I PLACED 5 BLUE BERRY PLANTS NEXT TO MEIWA TO LET IT KNOW WHO WILL FILL THE POT ABOVE IF MEIWA DON'T SHAPE UP SEE BELOW.{{gwi:576609}}

The trees are outside and getting the food they need and are doing well.

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3 sweet lee tangerine trees in bottomless gallon food tins. 1 nagami in gallon dressing jar.

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4 th sweet lee tree in ground visible in overhead view.

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Meiwa tree with new leaves numbering about a third of the leaves it had when it was at its best and doing well now.

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Poncirus trifoliata with over 10 feet of linear growth, is 17 month old

All the trees have acclimated to outside weather and I am now feeding them wit a 30-10-10 with micros miracid

My latest picture of my in ground seed grown sweetlee tangerine tree. She is almost a foot tall with several branches. I have the tree surrounded by sweet potato and watermelon vines to shade the soil and the trunk from sunlight. The vines are kept low enough to prevent shading of the trees leave. This keep the soil cool but lets it dry out around the trunk

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Click on the picture to open my photobucket. It can be viewed at 8 megapixel

All cirtus from seed will be thorny and take several years before bearing. You have done a good job on the seedlings.

My meiwa certainly has nice thorns as well as my poncirus trifoliata. I had to go check my roof top garden to see. All 4 of my sweetlee tangerine were loaded with thorns. However my nagami kumquat is thorn free. I did not notice this befor. Not that it is important but I found it interesting. I plan to grow both the meiwa and nagami to fruiting on their own and grafted to other roots.

I had posted this to find other that had succeeded to grow kumquat trees from seed to compare notes. It turned out to be a log of what I was doing

Thanks for looking and posting with a compliment. You are the first one other than myself to post.

Here is my seed-grown calamondin. There are four trees in a bunch. I focused on the stem and the thorns since that is the most impressive feature so far. No flowers yet and it's probably 3-4 years old.

johnorange

I agree with you about the thorns with my plants too. If you trim the thorns you destroy much of what citrus is about. Also, if you have thorns somehow you just kind of learn how not to get stuck but other never quite learn how to steal the fruit with out getting thorned. GOD BLESS THE THORNS.

Steve

deleting another double post

Steve

This post was edited by poncirusguy on Thu, Sep 5, 13 at 18:27

I have snipped thorns off my lemons for my own protection but also to keep lemons from becoming impaled and fermenting while still on the tree. I haven't noticed any issues with de-thorning but I can see how it could provide a route for disease and certainly allow access by squirrels, My calamondin better make some fruit in another few years or I may be tempted to replace it with a tree that gives me more fruit and less thorns for my efforts. Did you hear that Mr. Calamondin tree? :>)

I have 4 seed grown sweet lee tangerine trees to be used as root and tree stock to top graft my meiwa kumquat scions to. My poncirus proved to troublesome. 3 sweet lee trees were grown in bottomless 1 gallon food tins. One sweet lee was grown in a hill (bottomless & wall-less) 3 gallon container

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seed grown sweet lee tangerine tree moved from hill to 4.5 gallon bucket. Click on picture for details

click on link below to see a video on the advantages on using bottomless containers

Here is a link that might be useful: https://plus.google.com/photos/111099372377958308731/albums/5869826671114565057/5920315434603073298?banner=pwa&pid=5920315434603073298&oid=111099372377958308731

This post was edited by poncirusguy on Thu, Sep 5, 13 at 23:18

My meiwa and nagami kumquat are now bursting out with new growth after putting them in the bucket light system. I'll post pictures later as the growth is significant.

This post was edited by poncirusguy on Wed, Oct 16, 13 at 15:28

I went to your link with the idea of posting there, where you say it's more general, but you've got all these notes saying to let the thread die.

I'm still waiting on my seed grown citrus, but they haven't been around all that long. It does depend on the variety you choose to grow, how long it takes to fruit. A general *but not very precise* rule is the smaller the fruit, the sooner the tree will set fruit. Obviously, with a slow growing tree like kumquat, you're not going to get really fast production, though. Key Lime is about the best if you want to grow from seed and see fruit quickly, without having a monster tree. I expect one of my two remaining key lime seedlings from last year to produce probably by 2016 or 2018. I honestly never expect fruit from my sweet orange seedlings and am only mildly hopeful about my tangerines. But I'm also the lady with the five year old, six foot tall dwarf Bearss lime that has never flowered. (They produce in the first year and never get more than 2 ft tall, dontcha know? That's what the ad said!)

That said, I just ordered seeds for Meiwa Kumquat. I'm relatively patient, though, as long as I have other trees producing. I honestly have no idea how they will behave, but it looks like you are getting growth consistent with what I'm seeing from my limes, although you're doing much more to supplement their light than I ever do. I'm thinking you might see fruit by the time my limes are fruiting and my Kumquats should take about 2x as long (provided I'm not counting my seedlings before they sprout).

I got attracted to seed growing citrus because I enjoy it, mainly. There's something about watching the little seedling poke it's head up for the first time and slowly become a tree. Call me a sentimentalist. But it does help that I also have fruiting citrus trees to take the sting out of the wait I have ahead of me. (Yes, I have some grafted and cutting grown trees as well and I had fruit last year and am waiting for this year's crop to ripen--I bought 75% off clearance at a nursery and took home amazing trees for about what you pay for twigs in dirt from certain catalog stores.)

I think you go through a whole lot more trouble than I do. I generally treat my citrus like big bonsai trees and even go through a regimen of root trimming after the third year, but that's about as interesting as I get with it. I've never seen anybody aerate roots like that with a hair dryer. What does it accomplish? Is it something I should do?

I admit I usually stick my seeds down in a pot with a label on. More likely than not, there's a larger tree growing in the same pot, just so I remember to keep my seeds watered. By the time the little tykes have a few set of true leaves, I put them into their own pots--usually cut off soda bottles--and keep potting up until I deem them big enough for an "adult pot." I never use sterile anything on my seedlings and I usually get way too many seedlings and have to give away plants.

I grow my citrus in a mix of "garden tree soil" pebbles and coarse builder's sand, with the idea in mind of making a mix that looks like the dirt in the yard from when I was growing up in Florida. I figure if FL dirt works in citrus groves, it should work for me, with some pebbles for extra drainage.

I have little to no trouble with anything damping off. (The one Key Lime that damped off came back and has been playing catch-up ever since.) Will damping off be a problem with my kumquats? I've literally never grown kumquats before and I've heard they don't do well on their own roots. (Yet I'm getting seeds anyway and have no intention toward grafting despite all this poncirus I also have growing.)

Oh, I also saw a picture where you were trying to root a cutting. I know this way is the wrong way to do it, but I've had fabulous success rooting poncirus in water. It takes a while, but it works. I know some tree cuttings root better than others, mind, so I can't say if it would work for your kumquats or not. When I try with lime cuttings, no matter what I do, they usually rot. The only thing with rooting any trees in water is that I tend to consider them -1 years old when they start, because they will have to go through a transition period and they will almost always be behind a tree that was rooted in soil. But with some trees and plants, water is the easiest way to root them.

clymersville

I am sticking with this thread. Since kumquats are the hardest citrus (fortunella) to grow from seed this will provide excellent information to growing any citrus from seed.

The damp off is no more of a problem with kumquats than any other citrus. I was using rotted leaf material way to high in bacterial and fungal mater for any citrus. Kumquat roots grow much slower and the plants remain vulnerable to damp off for a longer time.

As things progress for you I would like you to post pictures on this thread.

Steve

My latest pictures of my seed grown Meiwa bush / tree

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Meiwa inside its bucket light system

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Meiwa outside of the bucket light system

This post was edited by poncirusguy on Tue, Oct 29, 13 at 12:50

I just now saw your reply. Sorry it took me so long. In terms of pictures, for me right now, you'd see the dirt at the base of my lemon trees. But, sure, as they sprout and grow, I'll post pictures. I don't honestly expect anything until spring, because the nighttime temperatures are cooling off already. I have been wrong about seeds sprouting in the fall before though. (I have a baby passion flower vine to prove it.) It's also possible that I'll get nothing, because the seeds did dry out first. I did my standard "soak shipped seeds overnight" thing. We'll see what happens.

I noticed with my calamondins (about 90% of the sources I find say that calamondins are part kumquat) that the seedlings are growing at about half the rate of my key limes. I'm hopeful for them because I lost the parent tree to snow storms while I was unable to protect my trees while moving. (I'm very lucky to have the citrus I still have.) Oddly, with those, I have this little seedling with tiny leaves spaced close together that is still alive after seven months. I've had seedlings like that before, but they are usually weak and die on me very quickly. I'm not sure it will last the winter, but if it does, I want to find a way to get it growing better in the spring. It's likely the weak out-cross offspring of my calamondin and meyer lemon.

My sweetlee trees from seed grow much quicker. Are free of the micro- nutrient problems of my Meiwa and Nagami kumquat trees. I have 4 sweetlee trees ranging from 18 inches to 35 inches.

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Sweetlee #1 and close up

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Sweetlee #2 at 2 feet 2 trunks and one branch.

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Sweetlee #3 at 34 inches with a 18 inch branch

{{gwi:576622}}#4 sweetlee at 35 inches, single trunk, branching out with 8 branches near the top

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The expanding buds.

The sweetlee tangerine trees are growing with gusto but may not fruit for a very long time. The kumquats are agonizingly slow. but will fruit an a potted tree of indoor size. I have conclude that getting a grafted tree is the best way to get citrus fruit up north

I do have 1 citrus tree doing very well but it was from a 1.5 inch cutting. In a half year I had fruits and in 1 year I had over 15 fruit ripe picked an devoured.

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HARDY CHICAGO KUMQUAT TREE ---LOL

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HARDY CHICAGO KUMQUAT-----LOL

I saw on another thread that you are recommending that people not grow Kumquat from seed, as of last October. How are your plants doing now? Any bigger? I thought you were doing pretty well, from what I saw. I just now got a kumquat to finally sprout. The seeds I got last fall failed and I had to try new ones this spring.

All 3 are in very bad shape right now. They are just now leafing back out. I'll get picture tomorrow. My suggestion is to use the quickest drying potting mix possible. If you haven't seen this,check it out.

Steve

Here is a link that might be useful: http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/citrus/msg031339421384.html?1

Yeah. Kumquats are a whole different ballgame, from what I understand, though I can't seem to get my other citrus and my watering habits to agree with the pebbly mix that people are promoting these days. I switched all my other trees back to a tree bark/perlite/leaf compost mix and they seem much happier with me.

I would warn anyone to be careful using a mix that drains too well on young seedlings in small pots. I lost more than half of my baby calamondins that way and only rescued the rest by returning them to pot where they germinated with the adult Rangpur lime.

That said, we've had a whole lot of rain lately where I am and I understand it's been like that for a lot of areas this spring/early summer. When I feel my citrus have had too much water, I move them onto the porch instead. Overwatering is probably one of the worst things you can do for your citrus. They handle underwatering much much better. Unfortunately, though, we don't control the rain.

This post was edited by clymersville on Sat, Jun 28, 14 at 19:31

The majority of my seed trees die from Damp-off. Once the tree get to about 6 inches tall they are nearly immune to the damp-off. After that point almost all trees that died was from not enough water. I have also found that my mix (1 part garden topsoil to 2 parts totally rotted leaf compost works well. I have also done very well with bottomless containers. There is no soggy saturation point at the bottom.

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Bucket with lots of drainage

Check link below to see bottomless gallon food tin kumquat tree get potted up to a 5 gallon bucket

Here is a link that might be useful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AkMFbhlgB0

Damp-off of very young seedlings has never been that much of a problem for me, but I think the reason for that may be how I germinate them to begin with. It's a cue I took from my mother, which is basically to put the seeds in the same pot (around the edges of the pot) with an adult plant then water the adult plant the way I normally would. It means I don't use bottom heat and whatnot, so things sprout when it naturally becomes warm enough for them, but pretty much I don't worry as much about damp-off because there are older roots using the same water in the same pot. It's when I take the babies out that I experience problems. As I mentioned, I actually put some young Calamondins back with their Rangpur Lime host plant to recover after this winter.

The other thing I practice quite a lot is the theory that it's not dead until it's dead and even if I'm sure its dead, it's worth a shot. You wouldn't believe the number of citrus seedlings and cutting grown figs I had come back to life after the moving issue the spring before last.

I actually use the much maligned self watering pots, but not as self watering pots. The designers would say I'm using them totally backwards. I'll go down my line of trees and tip them to dump the water if I notice water actually standing in any of the reservoirs. (I can't imagine using them to "self water" because what that really does is create a high water table for root rot.)

If you've ever taken a moment to look at one of those things empty, the bottom of the pot that sits inside the reservoir is like a pasta strainer. So long as the reservoir is always empty, drainage isn't a problem.

Meiwa is dead and been replaced by grafted meiwa.

replacement meiwa below.

in a 7 gallon gritty mix container.

Very good advice!!

I never thought about that as I move 3 citrus tree all in 30 gallon containers. I did not get one scratch but that was just luck and could have turned out tragic for me.

Just found this, Would have loved to see all the pictures

Photo bucket was so hard to use I deleted my account. It just wasn't worth dealing with. Google+ is almost unusable. I can only access Google+ and Youtube with desktop shortcuts. I am totally unable to get to my accounts when I am away from town trying to show friends my pictures on their computers. I do very little with google+. You Tube changed their format so I have access to only the newest 10 of my videos. I have to find the links on this forum to get to older videos. Houzz has a very good Photo sharing setup. I use Houzz for all my citrus sharing of pictures. It is raining hard here so I am trapped indoors and cutting the final pieces to my green house.

Steve