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kimcoco

What colors should I plant together here?

kimcoco
16 years ago

Milwaukee, WI calling all Clematis experts! Newbie needs your help.

I've narrowed my choices to type III viticellas. These will be planted in full sun and rich soil.

I will need to choose four (4) clematis to plant along a fenceline (one on each panel for now), and I'm looking for advice on color combinations.

About me:

With regard to flowers, I'm not a big fan of having every color around my yard - I like to keep colors of the same hue with one or two contrasting colors. But, I'm open to suggestions from those who are more experienced. I prefer rich, bold colors to the pastels, and I'm not a big fan of (light) pink or lilac.

My landscaping style is more formal - I like to keep things simple, clean but not boring, and nothing high maintenance. Am I contradicting myself by planting clematis? I don't know, but I think this vine would look fabulous on my cedar fenceline.

Lot size & color combinations - my lot is very small, less than .25 acres. I've read that cooler colors give the illusion of a deeper yard, while warm colors make a long yard shorter. Whites soften cool colors and strengthens warm colors. Blues, violets and greens are cool whereas reds, oranges, and yellows are warm. Obviously, I want to give the illusion of a deeper yard with my small lot, so my initial thought is to play more with the cooler colors.

With that said, I also want to have a contrasting color to give it more appeal, so would you recommend three cool colors with one warm color? Or, all cool colors (and whites), but then plant (red/orange) tulips and (yellow) daffodils at the base for contrast?

Early vs. late bloomers - can I mix these so I have both? Depending on the source, I read that Warsaw Nike blooms only in Jun/Jul, whereas other sources indicate Jun/Jul/Sept/Oct. Obviously this will vary depending on your zone, but how accurate is this info? If there are indeed different bloom times from each variety, I'd like to mix it up.

Here are some that I've chosen for my preliminary list, but I'm always open to suggestions:

Alba luxurians - white

Blue Belle (very pretty deep purple, very rich - love it)

Blue Angel - pastel? I wouldn't mind mixing with stronger colors

Huldine - very pretty white with purple violet stripe

Madame Julia Correvon - wine red

Tango - red with white bars - very pretty

Polish Spirit - deep purple blue - very pretty

Not the best pic, but this is the fenceline next to my garage:

{{gwi:578197}}

This is another view. The clematis is going along the fenceline to the left of the garage:

{{gwi:578199}}

{{gwi:575491}}

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

Oh, and for those of you in warmer climates - PLEASE send some warmer weather our way!!! :)

Here is a link that might be useful: landscaping article re: color combinations in flower beds

Comments (18)

  • michael_in_chicago
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm in your zone (Chicago) and I know Milwaukee well. Are you in the city, or one of the 'burbs?

    First, you would have plenty of room for 3 or 4 clematis per panel if you really wanted. They do look much nicer contrasting with each other this way, or with a splayed out rose (check out the rose garden at the Boerner Botanic Garden).

    Also, the concept of blues lengthening sightlines probably won't apply to your fence. It would have more of an effect if a blue flower were planted at the end of the garden that you were viewing from more of a distance.
    To answer your questions:

    Alba luxurians - healthy grower
    Blue Belle - gets huge; mine is 4+' wide and 10+' tall
    Blue Angel - will bleach quickly in your full sun area
    Huldine - the purple stripe bleaches quickly, but it's a nice one
    Madame Julia Correvon - quick grower
    Tango - I would avoid this one; weak grower
    Polish Spirit - good choice, though Etoile Violette a stronger grower, sort of a smaller Blue Belle

    Other viticellas or strong type 3's to consider are Warsaw Nike (do get one - strong grower, hardy, plush velvety flowers), Prince Charles or Emilia Plater (blue, but pastel-like), Margot Koster (darker pink), Bonanza, Negritjanka, Romantika. Check them out on Clematis on the Web.

    I know Minor's has a decent clematis selection. Email me privately if you'd like to know more.

  • nckvilledudes
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The viticellas are great and grossly underutilized by most people so I applaud your choices. If I had to redo my garden, it would have no type IIs and the type IIIs would be viticellas, integrifolias and integrifolia hybrids, and the native US species.

    Most of my comments mirror Michael's:

    Alba Luxurians a very luxuriant grower and I like the fact that the flowers have green ends in the cooler earlier part of spring. The flowers later in the summer will be all white although as far north as you are, they will retain their green ends longer.
    Blue Belle love it but it is not as vigorous as Polish Spirit for me.
    Blue Angel-definitely bleaches out for me to almost a silvery blue.
    Huldine- a great white but to see the stripe down its back you need to be able to view it from various sides, probably not good for a fence in that respect. Why not try campaniflora that is mostly white, has much smaller flowers than Huldine but is supposedly much more vigorous and floriferous.
    Madame Julia Correvon-wouldn't be without it. It was one of my first viticella types and I love it. If you love tone on tone, try Purpurea Plena Elegans with it.
    Tango-don't have it but do have Minuet which is fairly vigorous.
    Polish Spirit--love it for its vigor. In my garden it is much more vigorous than Etoile Violette but others seem to find it more vigorous than Polish Spirit.

    Others to consider would be Abundance, Black Prince, Brocade, John Treasure, Kermesina, Royal Velours, Viola, Venosa Violacea, and viticella the species.

    As to bloom times, they would all bloom later in the season for you than for me in zone 7a but when exactly is going to depend on factors too numerous to guess. Just realize that most viticellas will rebloom for you if you cut them back by half after blooming, keep them watered and fertilized well, and in late fall, another round of blooms will ensue.

    Don't know if you have the link to Clematis on the Web so I am including it below!

    Here is a link that might be useful: COTW

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  • kimcoco
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks so much. VERY glad to get feedback from the experts.

    I'm sure I'll be back with more questions when it comes to planting time.

    Do I have to worry about these climbing OVER the fence? The reason I ask is b/c we have only a 4 1/2 foot fence, and my neighbor mentioned that she's not really into vines all that much. I'm guessing the plant will eventually spill over, but it is my fence (and I have good relations with my neighbors).

    Also, do I need a trellis, or will it climb my wooden fence on its own???

  • hoovb zone 9 sunset 23
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Clematis climb via twining leaf stems. They need something to grab hold of. They do not have sucker pads like true ivy or boston ivy that enable those plants to go up a wall without anything to grab hold of. Their leaf stems are not that long, so they need wire to grab hold of, or a trellis made of very narrow strips of lumber. The leaves cannot wrap around a 2x4 for example, it is too big. I use hardware cloth with 1" squares attached to the fence (with spacers between the fence and the hardware cloth) because the clematis grab so easily onto it. If you are vigilant you may be able to guide the vines sideways so that they do not go over onto your neighbor's side. Also perhaps more compact varieties might work better.

    I'm sure the real experts will have comments about what is best to use in your zone.

  • kimcoco
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This is what I ordered so far from Koi Garden & Klehms:

    Madame Julia Correvon
    Bonanza
    Huldine
    Gipsy Queen

    and I'm in the process of pricing out viticella venoca voilacea, warsaw nike, purpurea plena elgans, viticella alba luxurians, and etoile violet. I also like the minuet as I've been told they're striking against red/purple plants (I have purple leaf sand cherries).

  • nckvilledudes
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The plants could climb over the fence especially depending on the path the sun follows over the course of the day. Pinching the growing tips out of the plants as they grow will help limit the eventual height of the plants and make them bushier.

    I agree that you will need something to have the clematis to cling to as they climb the fence. I personally like the green vinyl coated metal fencing you can get at most home improvement stores which can be staple gunned to the fence. You could even extend it above the current height of the fence to provide extra height for the plants to climb.

  • kimcoco
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I looked at the hardware store for the green vinyl coated metal fencing, but they have only the 2-3 feet tall versions. Maybe it's still to early in the season. I will probably go higher than the fenceline, provided my neighbor doesn't mind - but I think once the vines have grown it will look nice and provide more privacy - I'm sure she'll appreciate that as well.

    How large can I expect my clematis to grow the first year? Will they reach the top of my fenceline (4 1/2 feet) this year or next?

  • nckvilledudes
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Kimcoco, as stated in another thread the fencing is wire and coated in a green type of plastic. The rolls are 4 feet wide and were purchased from Lowes Hardware store in the area outside where they sell other types of fencing. The fencing is easily cut with wire cutters and the holes in the fencing measure 2 inches wide by 3 inches tall. You don't necessarily have to have just one piece to traverse the whole width of your wooden fencing. In the pictures I posted on the other thread where I show a wood post and fencing trellis and the copper trellises, I rolled the wire from one end to the opposite end of the structures and then repeated the rolling process above where the wire fencing left off. On your wooden fence you could use a staple gun and staples to attach it.

    As to how much your clematis will grow in their first year, your guess would be as good as mine since too many factors will enter into that including the vigor of the plants, how you prune them or if you pinch out growing tips, the type of fertilizer you use, etc. What you should be concerned with the first year is getting the roots established and getting as many stems growing from the crown as possible by repeated pinched back the growing tips. Clematis are not immediate gratification plants--like most plants and vines, the first year they sleep, the second year they creap, and the third year they leap.

  • nckvilledudes
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Here is a link to the thread where I posted pictures of the vinyl fencing in use. In the case of the wood and post trellis, I started at the bottom left and rolled it to the right and attached it with wood staples. I then went back to the left and went right above where the previous roll ended and rolled again, stapling all the way.

    For the copper trellises, I rolled in a similar manner,using plastic heavy duty cable ties to attach the fencing to the copper framework and then trimmed off the excess and bent the wire edges around the copper pipe.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Link

  • kimcoco
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ok, so I planted all my type III clems along my fence. Most of them I got from Koi Garden Club and I couldn't be happier with my choices. I decided to go with the green vinyl coated wire - doesn't stand out like I thought it would and I'm really happy with the results.

    I've planted clems mostly three per panel - from left to right: Prince Charles, Venosa Violacea, Huldine, Polish Spirit, Purpurea Plena Elgans, Etoile Violette, Bonanza, Gypsy Queen, Warsaw Nike, and Alba Luxurians.

    By my garage next to my Purple Leaf Sandcherry I planted Viticella Minuet with Alba Luxurians. Next to our patio I'm planting Madame Julia Correvon - beautiful!!

    At the base along the fence, I basically planted what I had in my yard so far... my yellow daylilies and iris....I've removed all the grass from the base since this picture was taken and I plan to add a border of some sort so I can mulch and keep it in place to keep the roots cool. I'm also planning on planting bulbs this year along the fenceline - tulips and daffodils (at the advice of those on this forum).

    I'm so excited I can hardly wait for these to fill out. I think it's going to look stunning. And, we just added a patio this year, so what a nice view as we relax in our yard...

    {{gwi:578201}}

    {{gwi:578203}}

    {{gwi:578205}}

  • Joan Dupuis
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Your planted fence will look beautiful in 2 or 3 years once they fill out. I'm thinking that I would actually remove the daylilies, as your space doesn't look very deep. Once the clematis start to mature, as well as the daylilies multiply, there won't be much space, and it will be hard to remove the daylilies later without damaging the clematis roots. The reason I say that is that I planted dozens of clematis seedlings in my old veggie garden in 2005. I dug most of them up this Spring to move along new fencing, and the root balls were HUGE. I ended up cutting off a lot of the outside roots. An alternative would be to plant annuals for some color this summer, and plant your bulbs this Fall. Just my opinion from experience. I also had to move a couple of daylily clumps and they are very hard to dig up.

    Joan

  • nckvilledudes
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Love your fencing. Glad you could find it and use it. I told you it wouldn't stand out as much as you thought it would and once the vines cover it, you won't see it at all.

    I am with Joan here. I suggest you remove the daylilys as they are going to be in competition with your clematis for moisture, nutrients, and space. You don't have enough space there for them and all the clematis you planted. Remove them now when the daylilys are small and the roots of the clematis and daylilys have not become intertwined.

  • kimcoco
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

    I will definitely move the daylilies (now where to put them???). Just when I think I'm finished with moving plants around... I just planted them recently so they shouldn't be too difficult to transplant, if all goes my way.

    Are the iris ok to keep there?

    Will daffodils be ok for planting by the clematis?

    What other flowers (any perennials) do you recommend for the base of the clems? I'm not a big fan of annual planting, but I'll go that route if I have to...

  • nckvilledudes
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I know I tend to be a fanatic about it, especially after our dry and hot summer last year, but I do not like coplanting anything with clematis but other clematis. That is especially true in the small narrow strip that you are growing your clematis in. I will let others give you their opinion about this!

  • kimcoco
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I was thinking I should add something to the base to keep the roots cool - but with the border I'm adding - I'm thinking of a small slate rock border along the edge of the driveway to keep the mulch in - maybe I won't need anything else with a good layer of mulch?

    I'll wait to see what everyone else says. My main concern is that I just ordered some daff bulbs and I just don't want them choking out my clems.

  • buyorsell888
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Use a soaker hose and mulch. When they say "roots cool" they really mean moist.

    Love what you've done with the fence. It looks great and will work really well.

    I've had less success with lattice and net and would like to convert to wire fencing myself.

  • sharon_can
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Where do you get the green vinyl coated wire?

  • janetpetiole
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Home improvement stores like Lowes or Home Depot. I see you live in Canada. Do you have a Canadian Tire nearby?