Hi Debbie,

I am sure others will have better things to say, but from what I am reading above, I don't think you are doing a thing wrong, I really think it's just an aclimation issue. They've been changed environments, and this is going to inevitably stress the plants. I went through the same thing with mine when they got home, go through the same thing when I bring them back in in the winter from outdoors (although less drastic a reaction then when I transported them home).

The time frame seems right, everything seems to be going well, them bam, a couple of weeks later you think it's a goner. Don't panic. One thing I've learned from some fine citrusnet people around here (and there ;) is to see if the petiols are remaining attached to the leaf when they fall, or do they remain on the twig or branch? If they are remaining on the twig or branch, it's surely stress. Find it a place with not too much direct sun, but still well lit, and let it be for a while. It should bounce back.

You could look for pests on leaves (under and uppersides) and stems as well, but based on what you are describing, I don't think that's your issue.

Good Luck Debbie!

♣ Gen

Debbie,
I agree. It is normal for an indoor citrus to loose its leaves during the winter. When March comes and the days get longer it will start growing again. Remember that scales will attack the indoor citrus if ignored. It wouldn't hurt to shower everything but the soil once a week to keep the pest away. Good Luck! Bill

Your in Illinois, you have the tree inside your house for the Winter. That is your problem.
Citrus trees are just like any other tree. It needs time to take a break. The best thing you could do is to put the tree in your garage where it can "cool off" for the Winter and sleep.
Your heat in the house is too dry. You can put a humidifier with it, but it wont help because it will still be too warm inside. The garage will be cool enough and humid enough that it will be perfect.
I know it sound s stupid, but this tree is just like any other tree in the Winter. Where do Citrus trees thrive?? Central to Northern Florida. My friend in Lake City, Florida has a Valencia Orchard. The lows this week in Lake City..30's & 40's with highs in the low to mid 50's.
Also, DO NOT WATER when tehy are resting.
I tell ou this both from advise from growers and from experience. I live in 5 Topeka, Kansas. My Valencia last Winter, I made the same mistake of bringing in for the Winter cause I thought thats what it needed since it was a warm Citrus tree. It lost EVERY leaf. And I mean EVERY leaf. I thought it was dead. My Lake City friend visited and saw the tree inside and yelled at me to NEVER bring a Citrus tree inside the house over Winter and that, that is the one mistake everyone makes.
So I put the tree outside in late March and luckily it made it in the Sring.
So this year, I have had it in the garage where it gets 30's every day and humid. To this day, I have lost SIX LEAVES, and the buds that started in the unusual warm December are still on the tree.
I know it sounds wierd, but believe me. PUT IT IN THEN GARAGE.

I have a calamondin, a Meyer and an orange jessamine (I know, not a citrus, but likes the same things) and I have several seedlings, from grapefruit to Yuzus. My appartment is VERY warm, hot even, and I have a whole home humidifyer. Granted, since I face south, when it's full sun out, it can be 30C+, but all my plants are fine, infact are growing actively, and are very happy. So what you say above Florida_wannabe, is not always true. Not for me anyways.

Question: How do you know it's going to be more humid in ones garage??

I looked and found these...
http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/morton/orange.html#Climate

Scroll down to "Climate". "The orange is subtropical, not tropical. During the growing period, the temperature should range from 55º to 100º F (12.78º-37.78º C). In the winter dormancy, the ideal temperature range is 35º to 50º F (1.67º-10º C). "

And also....http://www.botany.com/citrus.html
Read the very first paragraph that tells the basic needs for a "Citrus"...."Citrus trees require a minimum winter temperature of 45-50 degrees."

If your tree is warm year round and doesn't have time to rest, you will start to see less and less flowers and less fruits every year. If you allow the tree to rest, it will produce more flowers and more fruit.

Well, I was serious when asking the question. Unless it's a spring meltdown, generally the outdoor air here is very dry. I have never noticed a significant increase in humidity in anyones garage, to be honest. Most garages I have seen are also heated. Snow meltoff from a vehicle hardly seems significant to me.

I agree that it would be ideal to give the plant a cool period and therefore a rest thus later increasing blooms, however, I do not have that option right now, and was commenting that mine are healthy plants. If I were Debbie, and was worried that I may actually lose the plants, I don't think fruit would be much of a concern right now, but that's just me.

To answer your question, my Cal is bearing maybe 20 fruit, my meyer only two. Given my conditions, I think that's just fine!

Missed a question, I have had them for two years.

"I have had them for two years."
LOL, OK, that explains it. Keep the search feature active as you will need to come back and read the advise given here in a year or so.
See you Summer after next when your Citrus trees are so tired from continually growing that they put out 4-5 blooms with none of which will produce fruit.
Again, CITRUS NEED 40 degrees to 50 degrees for a certain amount of time in order to produce multiple fruits.
This is why Citrus loose many leaves over Winter indoors.

Your 40-50 is not fact. It does not need to be that cold to break bud dormancy. As long as it below 65 for a good period of time, that will do the trick.

Anyways, I'm done, ding you win. Bravo

Let me qoute Millet's input regarding :Bloom Production Withour Cool Temperatures- Millet is one of the moderators in another citrus forum.
" To help answer questions towards methods of getting citrus trees to flower, especially when cool temperatures cannot be given. I've read elsewhere, a post asking how to get citrus buds to "break dormancy" so that the dormant "floral buds" will begin to flower. Advice given included to provide the tree with cool temperature stress, drought stress, or light stress, (the latter I never heard of). To begin with, there is no such thing as "floral bud dormancy" in citrus trees, because initially there are no flower buds. All citrus buds are vegetative buds, that will produce new foliage. What cold stress and drought stress accomplishes is to change a foliage bud into a flower bud by a biochemical process called differentiation. Differentiation = to change from one type of organism to another type of organism. In other words, the cold treatment or the drought treatment biochemically changes a bud that would have produced foliage (leaves) into a bud that will now produce flowers. Normally in temperate regions, this change is caused by the tree experiencing a period of cool weather. However, in many regions of the world there are no periods of cool weather to promote differentiation. In these regions flowering is accomplished by the dry season, where the tree experiences drought stress. Water stress can play a role in flower induction. In the hot and humid lowland tropics, there is little seasonal variation in temperature. In these areas, flowering is usually rather continuous throughout the year. Greater flowering intensity usually occurs when rainfall returns after a period of dry weather. Water stress has been used for more than a century in Mediterranean countries to stimulate flowering in lemons. By withholding water during certain periods, the timing of flowering can be altered so fruit can be harvested at a time of higher prices (this is the case with 'verdelli' lemons), or drought stress can be used to just promote a tree to flower. It is important to determine the optimum level of stress at which irrigation should be started after the dry period. Too little stress can promote an inadequate flowering response. Too severe a stress can cause excessive leaf and fruit drop. Moderate water stress is recommended to induce sufficient flowering without excessive fruit drop, if fruit is present on the tree. For trees without fruit, this of course is not a concern. In Sicily, to promote the blooming of Lemon trees, water is withheld until the trees show wilt, then water is once again given and the trees put forth a nice bloom. Water stress can also be accomplished in container trees, by moderately withholding water to lower levels causing a stress to the tree. I have seen, more often than I would like, a few of my citrus trees bloom forth, after I have inadvertently failed to water causing the tree to became wilted. In one case quite wilted. - Millet"

"No matter where you are, Canada, Florida, California, Kansas, or Wyoming, fact is, Citrus needs 40 degrees to 50 degrees for a certain amount of time for maximum fruit production."

What was that?

You even said it yourself, they are subtropical. That should have given you a clue that they thrive in areas that could never receive the temps you describe, yet still manage to bloom and produce.

I rest my case

I have several citrus in my basement where it doesn't get any colder than around 65 degrees F. I left for a week of vacation and the plants did not get watered. They were slightly wilted when I returned. Several weeks later all were covered in blooms. So I can attest to the drought stress method.

What about other countries that do not feel the tempt below 65*F temp like the Philippines yet I see all kinds of citrus in the market place. And the saleslady would proudly tell you:
" That's Davao grown!". A province in the Northern region.

This is quite an interesting discussion.

I live in NJ where the temps dip into the teens or lower, and I'm keeping my 2 year old, potted Meyer Lemon inside. I had a string of lights around the pot to provide some root warmth and this offseason I added a CFL bulb on a gooseneck lamp with a timer to provide around 18 hours of light in lieu of any sunlight (the windows in my place aren't at all sun friendly).

We have gas heat and the house is relatively dry. It's a relatively cold house, too. The tree has dropped about half of its leaves so far and much of the newer growth it was working on in late fall has browned and died off. Then again, it also lost about 80% of its leaves last winter and seemed okay when spring arrived. I'm watering it every 10-14 days after checking it with a water gauge to test if the soil is mostly dry.

Given the conversation in this thread, should I be making any adjustments to my setup? Does my tree actually NEED to be cold to promote flowers for next spring? Surely putting it outside right now would kill it, right?

Yes, the cold actualy will help in the long run in the number of flowers and possible fruits.
Yes, the tree will put on new "growth" as far as new leaves and possibly 10-15 flowers in the spring, but those flowers wont last long and they definatly will not turn into fruit.
Even in New Jersey, I think if you put it in the garage where it will be 40's at night and 50's 60's in the day and will still get the humidity and NOT the dry air from your furnace, your tree will put out A LOT more flowers and a better chance of fruiting from those flowers.
Also, when it's in the garage, try not to let it get below 32 in the garage and DO NOT WATER!! Maybe water only once every three weeks. Since the tree will be resting, the water you put in will not be needed and it will set in the bottom and cause root rot.
So try this, I bet it works....Move your fruit tree to the garage. Give it a week. After that week watch and I bet that your tree stops lossing leaves. Then follow those directions (water, etc.). But during that first week you still may lose leaves due to the trauma of moving to the cold. But give it a week, THEN start watching and I bet it stops lossing leaves.
Best of luck and keep us updated.

Thanks florida_wannabe. Unfortunately my place lacks a garage, so it's inside or outsite on the deck. Given the temps, I'm better off leaving it inside over winter, correct?

I'm thinking that I'll try and put the tree outside earlier in the spring so it can get SOME colder, above-freezing temps. Maybe in March.

Cold is NOT NECESSARY for citrus to bloom. My citrus never see cold temps below 65°F and bloom profusely. These blooms also turn to fruit. Cold can KILL your citrus tree. If you want to stress your tree into producing blooms, forget to water it until it wilts. Then water. Your tree will bust out in blooms.

Cold is necessary for OTHER fruit trees to produce blooms, but NOT CITRUS.

If you need more information stating that cold is dangerous for citrus you only need look at the MILLIONS of trees lost in California and Texas. Growth froze in low temps that continued for days. The trees will survive because they were planted IN THE GROUND and the root zone stayed warm.

BEFORE you attempt subjecting your tree to cold temps, contact any of the reputable online nurseries and inquire about this. IF it was MY tree I would NOT subject it to cold for any length of time.
Andi

jerobi : Actually you are inluck. I went back and read your first post and saw that you have a "Meyer Lemon".
Actually the "Meyer Lemon" is one of the BEST indoor citrus trees you can have. Seems as thou after hearing what your doing as far as light and watering the best thing you could do is maybe either run a humidifier or spray mist on it twice a day. But NO, DO NOT put outside if your in Jersey. I suspect your leaf droppage is due more to humidity than anything else since "Meyer Lemon" are a very good indoors citrus.

gardner_dragon: "BEFORE you attempt subjecting your tree to cold temps, contact any of the reputable online nurseries and inquire about this. IF it was MY tree I would NOT subject it to cold for any length of time.
Andi"
Go to the top of the thread.. About 6 posts down you will see where I already DID inquire and posted links to the effect that state that "In the winter dormancy, the ideal temperature range is 35º to 50º F (1.67º-10º C). "
& "...."Citrus trees require a minimum winter temperature of 45-50 degrees."
Also, "If you need more information stating that cold is dangerous for citrus you only need look at the MILLIONS of trees lost in California and Texas. Growth froze in low temps that continued for days. "
Those were trees that as I quoted from your post growth froze. Notice where I pointed out to do not let the tree go below freezing???
But I think you also read something into what I said and you should not have done that. You started off by saying, "Cold is NOT NECESSARY for citrus to bloom". I NEVER said that is was necessary for citrus to bloom. I said that if you let the tree rest and give it 50's for a while, then it would produce MUCH MORE fruit than if you did not.
Next time, you may want to read the WHOLE thread instead of just a couple posts before putting words into peopl's mouth.