KC, to add to yur update...

I'm not surprized to see this book come from Wagner nad Schweitzer as they have both specialized in Noctuidae for decades (I read some of their papers 20-30 years ago). Sullivan specialized in Theclinae back then and Reardon was a USDA forester. So the book ought to be a good one to have if your bag is Noctuidae, even if you don't live in the eastern range it covers. The 2100 color pictures is quite an undertaking, and I'd bet will sell the book even if nothing else does.

Never cared much for the Peterson Guides myself (or any field guides for that matter). With many works on "eastern" species already in print, it'll most likely be an update of what has already been done by others (copied), maybe include some newly assigned species or taxonomy, maybe new pictures to WOW some folks and probably will not go past species level (making it worthless IMO).

FWIW

L.

I've never been a big fan of Peterson Guides because they are mostly drawings and I'm one of those people that like pictures. Sounds like this new book will be mostly pictures.

I can understand why a field guide on adults was worthless since you can figure out what you have based on characteristics. But order/family/etc are based on the characteristics of the imagos. I think a good field guide on holometabolous immatures would be useful until you have been somewhere long enough to know them by heart.

If you like butterfly picture books KC, you might like the series by Bernard d�Abrera (about $200-$500 for each of 32 volumes), or any of the "Butterflies of .... " series from several authors at about $600 to over $1000 per copy for each. ;)

Most field guides are based on the adult stage only to species level (often with the emphasis on common names) simply because they are intended for a layperson more than for serious amateur or professional lepidopterists.

Lepidopteran taxonomic assignment is in fact based on a mix of similar characteristics that can be in any stage, not just the adult stage. And those characteristics can be geographical, etc, etc, etc and not just physical. In any stage lepidoptera can be determined to various taxonomic levels by their characteristics IF you have the knowledge base, which very few people do beyond their specialties or own actual experiences. So a reference that does cover the complete metamorphosis of any lepidoptera in any classification, whether it be of a complete family, or even just a species, subspecies, form, abberation or cline in detail would always be beneficial IF done by someone qualified who did the work themself to prove it out.

The authors of this Noctuidae book are VERY qualified and have VERY long experience, so I'd bet the book will be well done (and I would hope very detailed).

L.

I've already pre-ordered the Wagner book - his Caterpillars of Eastern North America is one of my most frequently referenced books.
Sherry

Larry,

I definitely engaged my fingers before I engaged my brain on my last post. As I was reading your post, Geometridae and Psychidae popped into my head.

I'll have to see if Ohio State has those pricey picture books in their library.

I think $180 has been the most I've spent on a bug book. I just spent $140 on the latest version of "A Dictionary of Entomology" by Gordh and Headrick. OSU has it and I found it very useful so I figured I could use a copy at home.

If you were a prof at OSU, you would not be happy on how much they depend on Peterson's insect field guide. It is basically the lab manual for general entomology. It is also way out of date on a lot of its info. But Donald Borror was da man at OSU for years so at least two of this books are still being used. I never got to meet him. He would have been 81 when I first showed up at OSU.

KC

KC,

Having written and published a specific work myself I understand the time, effort and expense involved in not only travel for research and field work, but writing, editing, etc and publication costs IF all are paid for by the author(s) themselves (more about that later). Quality color photographs are very expensive in books - the higher the quality the more expensive. Even so the prices asked for many books is ridiculous, and is all about the profit that can be made on them. I covered ALL of the expenses and did all the work for my project myself, and gave all the copies away at no cost (all 5 printings). My purpose was to record and share (which did add some limited notoriety as well), but it was not to make money on. While some of the books I refered to (and many others) are spectacular as photo albums, did require a massive effort on the part of authors if they did the field work themselves, and may contain enough technical information to help offset their cost, they are still overpriced IMO. That later part... most are written by authors with institutional backing where most if not all expenses are covered by their backer. Brings to mind when I was picked for a special team to go do lepidopteran field work in China for a couple of months in the 90's, and couldn't go because I did not have those ties and could not justify the expenses out of pocket when I still had a son to put through college starting in a couple of years.

Unfortunately some of the early works and discoveries have been lost in later references, but they still hold water and so still have value. Dozens of my research papers, books and other references are as old as the hills, but I'd rather refer to them than a lot of the stuff being published today that is often just copied work that was only done for the notoriety, the almighty buck or to record it (with notoriety as a by product). Teaching from a reference by a staff member is nothing new, still goes on today. A nemisis of what is supposedly called higher education. It's not right, but it still prevails.

Larry

My copy of Owlet Caterpillars showed up today. It is set up very much like Caterpillars of Eastern North America. The big difference is the bigger pictures.

The big picture that really caught my eye was Schinia gaurae (Clouded Crimson). It is also in Caterpillars of ENA but the big cat pic in this book really resembles a monarch caterpillar. Plus the pic of the moth with its wings closed is just gorgeous. My wife thought it was a flower.

I learned about wine ropes, another way to attract moths.

My only complaint so far is I wish the publisher had released it in hardback too (I'm guessing a hardback is coming). I find the bindings in these big paperbacks do not hold up. I've had this book for 8 hours and book will already flop open to the page on Schinia gaurae. Reminds me of Butterflies of North America by Scott. I went through two paperback copies of that, last one being the 2001 version, before I decided to seek out the 1986 hardback edition, which has held up great. I don't have the corrections but I also don't have pages falling out.

Got my new Peterson moth guide yesterday (Friday). Cannot not tell you much except that my son really likes it (he has sorta taken ownership at the moment).

Looking back through this thread, I wanted to say that OSU does have some of the pricey picture books. I tracked them down shortly after I told Larry I would. Unfortunately, I did not keep a record of what I found. Guess I have to make a trek over to that library again.

Here is a link that might be useful: If you want a signed copy of the Peterson book

David Wagner and Seabrooke Leckie were both at the Mothapalooza event that I attended this month. Got both of them to sign my books. I don't think they were used to having groupies. :D I did not see their books for sale anywhere at the event so it was a matter of the attendees coming prepared. I bought a hardcover edition of Caterpillars of Eastern North America just for the event. David told me he was jealous because he did not have a hardcover copy.

David also shared a couple other nuggets of info. No more paperback copies of the Owlet book will be produced, so get your copy while you can. Said it was his decision. Someone asked why but he would not go there. He told me he was unaware that his Eastern Caterpillars book was in short supply late last year. Last nugget is he is currently working on a western North America caterpillar book.

Sounds like an interesting meeting! I've got paperback copies of both his books - they're two of my most used books.

Sherry

David was the speaker on Saturday night. His talk was titled âÂÂWhy Sooo Many Moths: Key Adaptations of Our Planet's
Largest Class of Plant Eaters.â On Friday night, he was one of the "experts" at the moth sheet location where I was assigned. I got some video of him explaining things. I now wish I had stuck with him that night but I spent most of my time flitting between all the sheets that had been setup, hoping to get a shot of something cool. I did end up with a very large dung beetle that flew into me while I stood under a street light. Helped a lot of people get pictures of it but I did not get any. :(

Got my copy KC. Thanks for the heads up. It is gorgeous. I am saving it for winter when I can spend time pouring over the pics.

Elisabeth

I am so looking forward to getting these new books to add to my collection! Thanks for the info

Owlet Caterpillars of Eastern North America is now $3600.00 from Amazon. Quite the price increase considering list price was $29.95 in late 2011. Amazon Canada has it for $74 US but won't ship it to USA.

You can still get the ebook for around $60.