Hi reptile girl: Let me say that I understand your feelings of being critizied and your question ignored. I read your original post then everyone thereafter, then back to yours. I'm hoping I can help you feel less attacked and perhaps give you a better understanding of how this site works. I also had an experience of feeling attacked and I barked back, then several people jumped on me etc. This is what I hear in your original posting: you are very proud of the hard work you have put into your garden of choice, SYG. You continue to give info about your efforts to provide the best growing mixture and fertilizers that have worked for you. You were not looking for any additional information about soil structure, how you should change the way you garden, etc. you are a happy camper with what you have accomplished and should be. The one question that you asked was what organic fertilizer could you add to your garden to insure the best possible crops. Instead you got bombarded with advice, corrections, suggestions, critisims etc. These are my thoughts that I hope help you; first it is helpful to understand that the people who hang out on the Garden Web are extremely knowledgable gardening people either through university or years of experience or both. These people can help you with virtually any question or problem that you may have. Also just by reading in several different areas you will learn so much more than you can imagine. Now all these experts are great resources but just like a professor, they are quite willing to share their ideas, thoughts, tried experiments and so on. And just as professors in the same subject area, they do not all agree with each others view point or practices. Often many of the postings are the experts discussing between themselves the positive & negatives of what has been written. One thing can be said about this site, there are many generous people who are willing to share their views and that's great. What you probably should do in the future is ask your question, that's it. By putting down so much info, everyone got on board with their ideas, stuff went back and forth and you ultimately felt attacked. They really are not attacking, they are very eager to share their knowledge to be a benefit to you. If you visit again and have a concern or question, I'd suggest giving only pertainent info that would help the other readers to give you exactly what your looking for, no more, no less. Those of us who reply to a post should probably take an extra minute to understand exactly what info is needed and offer only that unless the poster comes back to ask for more info. Efforts to help all who post are truly generous with their time and talent but I can see the flip side, so much response with so much advice and/or critiques can be overwhelming to the newbies. I hate to see & read the sniping back and forth that escalates to a point where some really nasty things are said. I think that before we offer so much advice, we may need to realize that not everyone wants or needs all of the knowledge that we are so eager to share and are then offended "after all we've done" when the writer says "enough." I hope reptile girl that you can see this site in a new positive way. My one big piece of advice comes from a Russian grandma that lived next door years ago. She had several potted rose bushes that produced gorgeous roses and all she did was throw left over vegetables, fruit skins, virtually anything into a pot, covered it with water and left it heat for many hours. What was left she poured on the roses. It sure worked. Last year I had quite a science experiment in my frig. plus stuff to go out to the compost pile. I gathered it all together and decided to put some of the scraps into my blender w/some water and spin for awhile. When I was done I had two big bowls of gunk that I poured on my two Deodor cedars. Within days those trees were sprouting all kinds of new growth on all the branches and both trees became substantially fuller and taller. I thought it was hilarious. Maybe I should repeat that routine and try it diluted much more in several other areas of the garden. I may be on to something. Good luck with your crops, it is fun and rewarding when you can actually feed yourself from your own garden, plus I'm sure the nutrition levels are so much greater than the average found in stores.

Cath, I grow clovers as a permanent mulch - I have to resow odd patches which get walked on a lot but in general, it stays in place around the fruit bushes. Other green manures (we also call them cover crops) I use are much shorter lived - tares and grazing rye are sown quite late in September and dug in the ground in early spring. Mustard is a really quick cover crop and I turn it in after 6 weeks. The main reason for using these cover crops is the silty sandy soil I garden on tends to leach out nutrients and also, as I grow many vegetables, the soil needs more frequent replenishment than when growing perennials or shrubs. For years, I relied on a good autumn topping of horse but the amylopyrolid/chlopyralid used in many broad leaved herbicides, persists, even after passing through the animal's digestive system. Horses which eat hay from fields where these herbicides are used have been unable to break down the hormones in these herbicides (unlike the old 2,4D for broad leaf weed killing). Consequently, crops sown in soil which has traces of chlopyralid grow with massive distortions, rendering them unusable. The effects persist over several years - only curcubits are relatively unaffected. Until recently, these herbicides were not available for the home gardening market but last year, they started creeping into domestic use - Verdone, for examnple, is now using chlopyralid as the active ingredient. What this means for us gardeners is that not only is horse manure compromised because of the hay they have been fed, the municipal green waste which many of us used as a soil conditioner, is also useless. Knowing the provenance of manure is essential (and unreliable since farmers are not always totally honest). I cannot make enough good compost to replenish the humus and keep the soil structure open and friable so using green manures, as well as leaving annual weeds either on top of the soil or turned under, is my main source of soil amendements (and also leaf mould but that takes ages). Is this an issue in the US? Are broad leaved herbicides using amylopyralid or chlopyralid or are they still based on hormones such as 2,4D - which basically makes plants such as dock, plantain, daisies and other lawn weeds, grow themselves to death.

Check out the TESTIMONY in these forums of the power of organic materials to tame/ammend clay soils. I don't recall what water source that the Olivenhein German/Swiss settlers had when they planted olive trees ... but do recall that dry-farming [beans] was used for years. You didn't mention what water source you have [well?] and that will make a difference in what kinds of trees/shrubs will thrive. So, may I suggest that you start with truck loads of [FREE]tree trimmings to create compost piles and to mulch? Ditto for FREE horse manure [lots of horse owners in RSF will be happy to contribute.] Check out the drainage patterns on your lot ... including whatever elevation/terrain changes you plan on. Also the prevailing wind patterns will help in tree placement. Also, check for fire safety in placing your trees. My insurance carrier canceled me because I wouldn't trim my Deodar 30 ft up from the ground. With a history of wild fires, insurance companies are getting antsy. As for what trees to select .... why not check out QUAIL GARDENS .. they will have both exotics and natives to see how large they grow and under what conditions they thrive. My mother has a huge 50 year old Torrey Pine tree in her yard. [Encinitas] It is drought tolerant .. to a point. Certainly striking. I had 50 ft. Cherimoya trees in my Vista yard and have one of equal size in my Escondido yard. Very attractive trees and I think will fit into your zone. Though not that large, I hope you will find space for Ceanothis Here is a link that might be useful: San Diego Native Plant Society

I've been picking up truckloads of this compost for 3 years after laying a 6 inch layer on my sweet corn bed as mulch 3 years ago....one day I moved some of the top layer aside and was blown away at the millions of redworms that had moved up through the bed and began to congrigate in the top layer of this compost as red worms are wont to do. I've experimented with this compost and all I can say is redworms freek out when you give it to them! They will devoure a 3x3 box 5 feet tall filled with this compost in 4 weeks! Leaving about 3 feet of worm castings behind, crazy stuff. I had brandywine tomatoes all year long this year and still have huge tomatoes coming in in the middle of January.