Karen, How right you are -but- as you state "the trick" and if you are not able to do this a cylinder type planter could be the difference between success and failure. Disclaimer: I am a veggie gardener and know nothing of flowers. I must say however that if that pipe/paint roller makes the difference in me having fennel bulbs -or- just fennel seeds when the plant bolts - I gotta go with the tubes :-)) I am planting the Florence Fennel for the bulbs not for the seeds. albertar, The lady I was talking to puts 20+ pipes/paint rollers in her dish pan so I don't think she would get enough bang for her buck if using milk cartons. I did introduce the idea of WS to her and she looked at me like I had 2 heads. I calmly gave her the URL for Garden Web and told her to look up the WinterSow.org for further info. Her look changed after getting this info. Perhaps we will see her here before long. albert_135, I saw a PBS documentary years ago and I do remember them planting trees in some type of tube. They were reforesting a strip mining area. Never thought of it again until you mentioned it above. DL

Bummer. Must be frustrating locating those things. As it turns out turface is used by sporting arenas like baseball fields or golf clubs. So another way to locate these products is to talk to the gardeners of golf courses. The problem of having to buy these products is that you'd end up with huge amount of the product. One area (US Based) I checked sold the stuff in 50lb bags. Anyhow, here's an interesting article on it in the ICAN Garden website. http://www.icangarden.com/document.cfm?task=viewdetail&itemid=1414 Interestingly the closest one can get to subtituting turface is to use cat litter. Since I do have a kitty, I can tell you that the litter product does actually last a long time. Might be an easier and cheaper solution if finding hte actually product continues to be a problem. As for crushed granite, the best bet is to approach stone yards and I'm sure there's plenty in your area. These things are used to stabilize interlockings for example.

Direct Buy definitely isn't for everybody. If you're shopping only for cheapest price & aren't concerned about brands or quality, it's not for you. If you only buy a few very specific brandnames and DB doesn't carry them, it's not for you. I read a lot of the negative comments about it online & most of them just confirmed that it would be a good deal for us. Since we're owner/builders and have to source a lot of things ourselves the membership fee wasn't a big deal - we made it back in the savings on our windows alone. (bought very high-end windows that wouldn't have been able to afford to look at otherwise). We have a very tight budget but expensive tastes so I don't know if we've saved tons of money with DB but we have been able to get much better quality than we could afford elsewhere. Keep in mind that they are franchises so the customer service & sales tactics can vary a lot between locations depending on the owner. Another thing that varies is the local merchants who are associated with DB. We're lucky enough to have lots of good ones at our location so have been able to take advantage of the design services at big lighting, plumbing & tile stores & a high-end local cabinet manufacturer while getting great discounts. We haven't bought everything through DB, it's just one more resource for us. I'm always on the look-out & have found some great deals at store close-out & moving sales. Another thing to consider is that if they carry manufacturers you like, you have each company's entire line to pick from, not just the best-selling items that the stores carry. That's important for us because our tastes don't always coincide with what's most popular in our local stores. It doesn't make sense for everyone, and it depends on what your local showroom is like, but I have no regrets about joining. After reading some of the responses, I don't know why people get so worked up about a company they have chosen not to deal with. If it makes sense for you to join, that's great; if not, don't join but why get so incensed about those who do?

My favorite restaurant supply store find is my measuring scoops. I gave a set to Diana in the my favorite things swap - you can see a picture on that thread. Restaurant supply stores are good for getting substantial stainless steel measuring cups and spoons instead of the wimpy aluminum ones that bend or dent. Or the big thin spatulas that can be used for tasks like lifting a layer of cake after you have split it horizontally to add fillings. In addition to what others have mentioned, they often have the cake pans with straight sides instead of sloped which is nice when making layer cakes. Around here there are two kinds - the ones that sell mainly food with a bit of equipment and the ones that sell mainly equipment - everything from utensils to major appliances. Smart and Final and Cash and Carry are the food kind - they are under the same ownership but Cash and Carry is bigger with more specialized food. For example, our Smart and Final has a few kinds of Torani syrup but the Cash and Carry has the full line plus some other lines of flavoring syrups. The equipment ones aren't all equal either. The area that has Cash and Carry has about 3 of the non-food restaurant supply stores. One carries nicer more varied stuff than the other two. But all have at least the basics like the stainless steel sheet pans, good cooling racks and lots of utensils. All the ones around here are open to the public. You don't have to be a restaurant or have a tax ID. Here is a link that might be useful: Link to thread with picture of the scoops