Wow are you going to busy! Oh I wish I could see them, they must be so cute, the GST.

I wish I could help you Gwynne but I'm like you and I have not raised either one of these -yet-maybe I'll have to follow your lead and order some too-your in PA right?

Aggie
P.S. I wish you all the luck in the world with them and will you take pictures when there butterflies for us?

Gulf Frits are not huge eaters. The cycle is about the same as a Monarch, time wise. They get to be about 2 to 21/1 inchs long but they don't get very fat. Of course, they don't change colors as Monarchs or BS do as they grow.

Just provide them with fresh leaves, and they'll do fine. They're both very easy cats to raise. Remember though that GSTs are very sluggish, so don't worry if they look dead all the time. And when either of them get TOTALLY still and don't eat for a while, they're probably between instars and can't eat, perfectly normal. GSTs eat a lot, but relative to their size, it's not much - they really don't eat any more than pipevine swallowtails or monarchs, and the butterflies are bigger, a lot bigger than PVSs.
Have fun!
MissSherry

Waaaah, it almost makes me wish that I could order some GST's! :( I have the rue but none showed up yet. Hubby said I've already gone over my gardening budget. I'm glad that you'll get to raise some though, Gwynne. Good luck.
Cathy

Um, yeah, you want pictures of the butterflies, Aggie? I sort of am down to five GSTs. I only found seven live ones. I think I found a couple of bodies though. Of the seven, two are twice the size of the other five. One of the bigger ones viciously attacked and killed a little one before I could stop him. I think he was trying to eat him. I tried to stop it but they are so small I couldnt do anything without hurting them both. I did move Killer away from the others though. Another one rolled off the vase I had made and landed on the counter. So I am down to five. Normally, I dont end up killing my caterpillars! So I could use some good luck about now, Cathy.

I will keep what you said in mind, MissSherry, about them being sluggish and thank you for your imput, too, Mboston. Hopefully some of them will live long enough so I can see the cycle! I am so embarrassed to be reporting how dismally things are going so early on!

Oh my, Gwynne, sorry to hear about the GST cats! I really hope that things start going better there. I don't blame you for moving Killer away from the others. Bad cat! Are you saying that the one GST died by falling? I didn't know that was possible.

Wow, now that is one angry cat! I have never heard of them dying from a short fall before, that is strange. You will make it to the butterfly stage Gwynne, we live and we learn. I know you will be fine and I am sorry about the two.
When I got the Monarch eggs from Edith all 12 were on the same leave so trying to seperate them was impossible, I couldn't do it. So I did the best I could without hurting them but, when some of them were born they ate two of the other eggs. Out of the 12 eggs I got 7. Some just were not born at all.

How are the Gulf Frit's doing? Are they hatching yet?

Aggie

Cathy and Aggie, perhaps the caterpillar fell more than once. Perhaps I was too embarrassed to admit that yesterday. I had a hard time getting them onto my makeshift feeding station. And it is possible I harmed it picking it up to put it back on the leaves.

This is what I do with my BSTs. When they are little, I take a long, narrow vase, fill it with water, put foil on top, take a needle to start holes and stick a stem of parsley into the holes. Sometimes it is necessary to move a BST. In that case, I tear off the parsley leaf and place it over another leaf and the caterpillar eventually moves onto the new leaf. When they get larger, I just stick a whole plant in with them and when the plant gets eaten, I stick another plant in. I have had very little trouble with the BSTs. I say parsley because that is mostly what I use.

I thought I would do the same thing with the GSTs. I didnt take into consideration how small the rue leaves are. I set up my little vase, only I put rue into the holes. When I emptied the little container that the GSTs came in, some were on leaves and some werent. It was hard for me to pick up the ones that werent on leaves and get them to stay on the rue. They kept rolling off. They only fell an inch, to the foil, and werent hurt. But I kept trying to put them back on. A couple of times some rolled off the vase onto the counter. So we are talking about several falls. At one point, my hand slipped, the foil ripped, and one of the caterpillars ended up in the water! I dont remember if it was the one that later died because I got it right out and it seemed okay. It may have even been the other larger one that fell in. Not Killer, but the other large one.

When I emptied the container, I also had trouble telling the difference between frass and dead caterpillars. I ordered eight caterpillers. I found seven live ones and two or three things that could either have been dead caterpillars or frass. They told me they sometimes send extra eggs because not all of them make it so they may also send extra caterpillars. I now realize that they may have been molting and not dead but I already disposed of them.

I was trying to get them all on leaves and Killer somehow got to close to one. I was able to separate them initially but you know how they lay down silk or something so they dont fall off the leaves? There seemed to be silk attaching them and Killer immediately attacked the other cat again. He was half chewed up when I got Killer and him separated. I am talking about the same caterpillar I mentioned yesterday, not another one!

What I finally did because so many kept falling off the vase was to take the rue, put a damp paper towel around the stem, and put foil on that, and set them in a little container SO THEY WOULDNT FALL!! I did put the other larger caterpillar with Killer. When I say larger, I mean maybe second instar, not large enough to safely handle. At one point, they met up and I was waiting for disaster, but they seem to have found their own leaves.

I had three stems, Killer and the other larger caterpillar are on one, separate from the other guys. Two of the three remaining GSTs were on one stem of rue and another caterpillar kept falling off. I put the two stems in a little plastic container but did not put the lid on. I couldnt actually get the last little caterpillar onto the stem of rue, but it was right in front of him. By the way, you might have noticed I refer to the caterpillars as 'him' even though I dont know their sex. I figured with the rue right by him, he would find it, right? Wrong. When I did one last check before going to bed, he had disappeared. I found him this morning, climbing up the vase with the parsley! I have them enclosed in a monarch castle. There are monarch caterpillars in there, but neither eat the other's host food, so that is not a concern. I have four small BSTs in there. While BSTs will eat rue, GSTs dont eat parsley. I have no idea why he crawled away from the rue that was right in front of him. I put him back with the rue but I have no idea what he is going to do. I have found for the most part that BSTs dont wander from their food source and these BSTs are so little that they wont be a threat to the GSTs. I did, however, put the larger BSTs in another cube as I was afraid they might go for the rue.

One of the GFs may or may not have hatched. I ordered 12 eggs and they sent me 24. The eggs were different colors and I wasnt expecting 24 so I called and asked if these were all eggs. I thought maybe some of the different colored ones werent eggs. It turns out that the eggs change color before they hatch. I know the monarch and BST eggs change color, but not this dramatically. Anyway, this is when I asked why there were so many and they said they usually send extra eggs in case they dont all survive. I had wanted GST eggs but they were out of them and had caterpillars. I thought great, that would make it easier to deal with. I guess I was wrong there! One of the GF eggs looked empty today and I see a little hole in the leaf, but can not find a caterpillar. I dont know what they look like when they just hatch.

I hope you dont think I am criticizing Shaky Oak. They are wonderful there. It is my lack of experience with these caterpillars and with rue that is the problem. Edith is the one that grows plants. She is wonderful. I have talked to her by phone several times and have emailed her. I cant say enough good things about Edith. She has taken the time to answer all my questions. And believe me, I have had some stupid ones. She advised me on how to take care of a passiflora caerulea that I didnt even get from her. No, this caterpillar disaster has been my fault through lack of experience. I only ordered eight GSTs because at that time I didnt have very much rue. Right after the caterpillars were shipped, I found four large rue plants.

I also ordered four false nettle plants and two more passiflora incarnatas. Not having done my research, I did not realize that the false nettle can get to be 12 inches across! I certainly dont have room for that many 12 inch pots. Edith says I can keep them in a smaller container and gave me instructions on how to trim them when needed. Also, this is very stupid, but I have heard people here talk about the GFs stripping their passiflora vines. I didnt realize that it grows back. How dumb is that! I thought if the GFs ate my passiflora I wouldnt have any left for my enjoyment so I ordered two more.

Edith warned me that the false nettle is very brittle and that some of the leaves might fall off. They didnt. Everything was packed so carefully and nicely. The plants all look great. I really do recommend Shady Oak and hope you dont decide not to order because of my mistakes. I cant praise them enough, which I already mentioned.

Whew, if you made it this far, I know that was a long read!

Gwynne

Oh Gwynne--your going to be fine with them, you know that right? Every type of butterfly and caterpillar has a different personality. The Monarchs are so different than the Spicebush. The BST's are different than the Spicebush.

I have only raised a few different types of butterflies, by no means am I an advanced raiser, and I think that each type has different ways. You will get used to them and the Gulf Frits-you'll be a pro in no time.

I love Shady Oaks! It is the best place to get plants and caterpillars. I just wish shipping wasn't so expensive right now or I would be buying things left and right from her!
I hope things are going better today for you-I'll be thinking of you~**

Aggie

I am at work now, which is a nice break from the caterpillars! I am so envious of you, getting to raise spice bush caterpillars! I think next year I will plant a spice bush. Edith says they can be grown in a pot. I have seen pictures of them in my butterfly book that says spicebush butterflies are local to this area, but I have never seen one. I dont think. Probably couldnt identify it if I did!

Maybe next year, if I can get a spicebush growing, and have rue, I will order GST eggs and send half to you and when you get spicebush eggs, you can send them to me. We are in the same state, so that should be allowable. Meanwhile, are you taking lots of pictures? I would love to see them in you are.

hello
I will be getting my shady oaks order tomarrow, this is my first time ordering eggs, but I also ordered GST eggs so we'll so if I get cats too. I have read all your posts and will try to learn from your "hickups". I have decided to put them in a seperate container away from the other cats till they get of decent size.
I went and ordered monarch eggs to( I have had trouble finding them) then on tuesday I found bunches of monarch eggs. oh well the more the marrier right?
I ordered plants too so I'm glad to here they send nice big plants.
I'll let you know how it goes.
michelle

Gwynne the worst part is that I have never seen the Spicebush that is doing all the egg laying! I read somewhere that they like to stay in the woods and lay eggs close to the ground, which must be true because it is where I find all of them. Today when I went I checked on the Sassafras trees, the last time I was there they were covered in J. Beetles. Well they have totally eaten most of it. I could not believe my eyes-just a bit of leaf here and there for me to take home to the cats---but-- while cutting some of the good leaves I found two eggs and two small cats. I was so surprised.
Your idea sound great! I would love to raise GST, they just sound so cool-Giant Swallowtails.How are they now? I bet it's getting better isn't it?

I have taken a couple of pictures but, they don't come out so well. I have tried to take close up but they look like a blob of green-but I'll keep trying! Anyday now the first one should be born-I can not wait to see it..It's like Christmas!

Aggie

Michelle good luck with your eggs and cats-I'm sure you will be fine~I did the same thing you did, I ordered Monarchs from Shady Oaks and then found some a few days later-go figure!

I have never gotten plants from Edith yet but I'm planning my order-I have so many that I want to get..

Aggie

I received my plant order from Shady Oaks on 7/17 Tuesday and the plants look terrific. I'm lucky in being only a day away by mail.
Isn't great that they have affordable plants that can't be found anywhere else?
I ordered some zebra cats and larva but didn't get them. Guess they were out. Funny thing is I haven't had a zebra longwing ever in my garden and Monday I got my first one and then another today. Didn't need the cats after all.
I can highly recommend Shady Oaks (even if my cats didn't ship).

Michelle, you have read my posts? When I looked at the length of my biggest post, I thought, 'no one is going to read this, it is way too long!' Yes, I hope you do better than I have. You might as well learn from my mistakes, I have made so many of them!

You will probably get eggs. The eggs are .75 cents each and the larva is 1.00 each. They were out of eggs so substituted larva. They should have some eggs now. I explained to Edith what happened and said I would probably be buying more as I have a lot of rue now. Have any of your eggs hatched yet?

Aggie, I have not seen a monarch butterfly yet but I have found eggs. I actually am not outdoors all that much except for in my balcony garden which might explain why I dont see as many butterflies as other people do. And I have no idea how to identify trees, I wouldnt know a sassafras tree if one fell on me! I hope you have enough leaves left to raise your caterpillars.

I would love to raise some GSTs as well! I am beginning to wonder if a couple of these caterpillars are a big strange. They keep wandering, cant seem to find the rue even when I put them on it! Maybe they want to go off somewhere and molt. I am used to the BSTs that molt on the parsley and dont usually leave the host plant except to pupate.

I havent quite figured out the macro feature on my digital camera either. It almost seems to be better to take the photo from a little further away then zoom in once I download it onto my computer.

I still havent located the little GF caterpillar that I think may have hatched. I wont throw anything away until I am sure there isnt a caterpillar in there!

When you do order plants, you will be very pleased. The shipping really was less than I thought it would be. They were able to get six four inch plants and my eggs and larva shipped for 17.00.

Naples, that is wonderful that you saw a zebra longwings in your garden! I have never seen one. Now that is one butterfly I would remember seeing! I hope it was a female and she left you some eggs.

Gwynne

Wow, that shipping is not bad at all, I thought it would be through the roof because of gas prices..I guess not.

Next Friday I'm going to order some Gulf Frit. eggs and my all time favorite-Painted Ladies. I just have a soft spot for those butterflies, there just so cute..

I'm also going to get a few False Nettle plants, I really need some without the stingers.:)

Aggie

A great idea, Aggie. Those stinging nettles are just not worth the pain of having them, especially when there is something else available that doesn't sting. Pellitory pennsylvanica (named after your state, so you might find some growing wild) is another host in the urticaceae family that doesn't sting either.

I winter sowed some stinging nettle year before last and I just decided not to plant it after I was able to get the False Nettle. I have enough problems without getting attacked by a plant! LOL!

Susan

hello
yes some of my monarchs have hatched, but I don't know where they are in the cage, but there are 3 empty egg cases.
I went out to my in-laws farm in MO today and dug up some small milkweeds, I hope they do better than the others.

we saw so many butterflys out there, it is not a working farm, just open prarie. we saw tiger swallow tails, yellow and the dark black and blue ones, giant swallow tails, monarchs, question marks, and verious smaller unknown kinds.
michelle

hello
me again. my order came today from SO. the plants look great, but they were not marked and I had to call and ask what was what.
some of the monarchs had hatched in the shipping container, but I moved them on to some honey vine right away, they have milkweed too just incase they don't like the honey vine. I did not get any GSTs becouse they were out of large rue, and the small rue were too little to feed those guys. but at least I now have rue, hawthorn, willow, and nettle (non-stinging) plus with the fennel, milkweed, honeyvine, and my cherry tree (a black tiger swallow tail was fluttering around I hope laying eggs) I should be able to attracked a good number of butterflys next year.
michelle

Aggie, I did the second day shipping, not the overnight shipping. Everything arrived in great shape and was well packed. I have not been doing to well with the caterpillars and eggs, but I attribute that to my lack of experience.

Michelle, it sounds like you did well with the plants! I hope you get lots of visitors. I am confused about the honey vine? I thougth that the monarchs could only eat milkweed.

hello
I thought monarch only ate milkweed too. but last year(my first time to raise cats) I found several monarch cats in the lawn eating a very invasive vineing weed. so when I found this site a few months ago I posted a discription of the vine, I was told it was called honeyvine, in my caterpillar book they call it white vine or creeping milkweed(looks nothing like milkweed). I give the cats a choice and they seem to like both milkweed and honeyvine. I rip honey vine out of my perennial beds by the bucket full so I have no shoutage of food for monarchs. I have left several areas of the vine alone, so we'll see if the monarchs lay eggs on it this year. they seem to perfer to lay eggs on the milkweed.
michelle

Michelle,
Yes, Monarchs will eat the Honeyvine.

I just started reading this post.

Poor Gwynne!

Okay, some pointers on GSTs.

1. They can be cannibals BIG time.

2. They don't like being handled when they are small so it is better NOT to pick them up. Leave them on the leaves and just move the baby ON the leaf to another leaf. Put the baby on the leaf onto the new leaf. You may just have to forego the entire water-vase-rue idea when your GSTs are teeny-tiny and just have them in a small cup. Believe me when I say the GSTs do NOT wander much. :)

3. Once they get to be about 3/8" long or so, then if you handle them with a brush, you'll be okay. You won't be as apt to kill 'em off.

4. GSTs are just really slow movers. They don't eat all that much (or so I've found) and so they are easy to raise if you remember that they are just the pokey types. They don't wander either, which is nice.

5. GSTs don't do the 'silk string thing' like Monarchs do at the early instars when startled. That's why the little ones just fell...

6. Like BSTs, the GST will do the gut purge before pupating and will make a harness/sling when they do pupate. Have sticks available.

As far as Gulf Frits? The eggs are super yellow-orange in the beginning then change to a darker golden, almost bronze, colour when they are getting ready to hatch. This is a faster moving caterpillar, like a Monarch, and they do like to eat! They also do not do the silk string thing so be careful! GFs hang like Monarchs (J) when they pupate.

Hope that provides a bit of info! You can always email me, as well...

tifannytdog@yahoo.com

:) Sherry

Too late. All the GSTs. died. I am so upset wondering what I did wrong. I was unaware that they dont put down a silk pad like BSTs. Edith says she will give me a credit for them.

I tried putting them on the little vase and they fell. I tried putting rue right next to them. They wandered:(

I could not get them to eat. Only 4 of my 24 GF eggs hatched. I only paid for 12, whoever does the shipping gave me the other 12 just in case some didnt hatch.

I feel like giving up at this point.

Gwynne I am so sorry. I really, really, don't think it was anything you did. From reading your posts it sounds like you did just what you were suppose to do. Again I am so sorry and I don't think you should give up, clean everything and start over again. That is all you can do because you love to raise butterflies~**

Aggie

Okay, girl, we're gonna help you raise at least one GST here! Darn it!

Do you have any Glad plastic containers or something similar to them - small, not big. Put a paper towl (folded up) in the bottom of your container. Put your lil baby cats in the container on whatever Edith sends you. Put a Rue cutting next to the babies. They will climb onto it.

I put "slices" in the top of the container for a little bit of oxygen so the cutting won't get mold on it. You can also wrap the end of the cutting in a damp paper towel, and then wrap the towel with Saran wrap to hold the moisture in, but keep the container dry.

Once the cats get big enough, as CalSherry says, you can move them to the "vase" method, just put the old cutting with the cats next to the new cutting with fresh foliage and they will climb onto it, too. GSTs are very sluggish. They will not be prompted to move by any method whatsoever. They will do it in their own darned time.

GFs. Hmmm. You have passion vine for them, right? I'm trying to remember - did you have two different kinds? Di you try both? I'm still finding eggs and cats on mine. I just put a fresh length of vine or two in the cage every morning, and they climb onto the fresh food. I don't know what to say about what happened with them. Maybe someone else has some ideas.

I've never ordered eggs/cats, so maybe it has something to do with environmental changes???

Susan

Thanks, Aggie and Susan. I am afraid it wont be this time with the GSTs. The remaining four died and the last one seems to have vanished. All that is left in that container are the BSTs. I asked Edith and she said they are out of GST eggs at the moment. They only had caterpillars last week which is why they gave me caterpillars instead of eggs. And here I thought I would be doing better with caterpillars!

You are correct, Susan, I do have two different types of passiflora. I ordered passiflora incarnata off ebay. That took a long time to get going, so I ordered passiflora caerulea off someone else. Meanwhile, the incarnata started doing great. I ordered 12 eggs from Edith. Because I had visions of my vines being stripped, I ordered two more passiflora plants. Shady Oak sent me 24 eggs instead of 12 in case some didnt hatch. I ended up actually with only four hatching. They are only about 2 or 3 days old, too soon to know how they will do. And now I have all this incarnata! This has just been a disaster.

I have never actually looked for eggs on my vines, assuming that the butterflies that use them usually dont travel this far. I wouldnt know where to start looking, the plant has vines all over the place!

hello
sorry to hear about your troubles, my monarchs are doing fine. I just put the cup with the eggs in my small cage and everyday I lay a few fresh leafs on the top, I'm too scared of tossing out a tinny cat to clean out the old leafs everyday.
but don't give up try again
maybe not now but sometime.
michele

Gwynne, are you raising your caterpillars inside a container, or just leaving them on the plant? Just trying to help you figure out what may be happening. GFs are very easy to raise. In fact, I do usually leave mine on the vines. However, this year we have so many predators in the garden, due partly I'm sure to the rains we've had this year, which tends to invigorate the numbers, that I put all of mine in a butterfly hamper.

GSTs, IMHO, are one of the most difficult to raise, and the mortality rate is higher on them. If you have tons of eggs available, it may not seem like a big loss, but when you're just dealing with a few, it's not totally surprising that they didn't make it. I wonder, too, if it has something to do with a drastic environmental difference between Texas and Pennsylvania. If you can locate some prickly ash, ptelea trifoliata, or Rue in a nursery somewhere, you might be able to find some "locals" to attempt raising. If you left yours out on the balcony, the night temps might be too cool for them compared to the night temps in Texas. Just a consideration.

Thank goodness, you have a great deal of passion vine! If you don't get any this year, it will be ready for the BFs next year!

In addition, I'm wondering if you had some kind of pesticide or chemicals applied to the foliage of your plants (in that they were sprayed before being sent to you). I don't know how long you had them before the butterflies were put on the plants. That can definitely have an impact on the mortality rate.

Fritillaries are much more abundant in PA than in the south. Have you planted any wild violets in a pot for them? The cats look very similar to GFs, and the adult butterflies are very pretty. Also, the Great Spangled Fritillary would eat violets, too, and other fritillary species as well.

I'm so sorry you lost all your caterpillars. It's heartbreaking when that happens.

Susan

Thanks everyone for your suggestions. Maybe I will try again later this summer.

It was great speaking with Gwynne last night on the phone. :) I think we've determined that she is NOT giving up, right Gwynne? :)

CalSherry, it was wonderful speaking to you on the phone as well. No, I am not giving up. I do have four GF caterpillars that are several days old. I am looking forward to watching them grow and seeing what changes the caterpillars go through and hopefully seeing them as butterflies.

Since it didnt work out this time with the GSTs, I am counting on you to take lots of pictures of yours! And with your tips, hopefully it will work out better next time I order GSTs.

gwynne, I like the long posts; they're very descriptive.

This may or may not help at all, so do what you will with it. I had trouble with my BSTs last year. Some of them just up and died on me. The remaining ones ate all the parsley and dill I could give them, which wasn't much.

In addition, I had problems with the monarchs. I could only offer A. tuberosa, and it doesn't transplant well into pots, so I had to do cut stems and try to keep them moist. There was a drowned cat.

THEN I discovered water pics, which you can get at any florist: a small vial for water with a rubber gasket.

They completely saved both of my situations, because I could take the water pics out into a field and harvest some Queen Anne's Lace for the BSTs, and I could keep stems of A. tuberosa alive long enough to get completely devoured by the monarchs.

AND, the pics made it easy to separate cats if needed, which might solve the cannibalism problem.

Hope it helps, and I feel the pain about the lost cats.

Jeff

Thank you, Jeff. I did indeed get six florist picks last week. They said that was all they could spare right then but would get more in.

I have been using them with the monarchs. I might put a large leaf in a pick and prop it against the wall of the enclosure.

I am going to try to grow my own parsley. It is getting expensive going to the nursery every week to buy more!

I do have milkweed growing near me, within walking distance, but I am afraid I am desimating
Dumb question, are all water picks pointed? Is there such a thing as a flat water pick?

I did notice that I have to refill the water about twice a day as the milkweed stem just soaks up the water.

I am sorry to hear of your problems, too. I had a lot of problems with monarchs last year, parasitism, OE, unknown diseases. Only about half seemed to make it, maybe a little more.

I had virtually no problems raising BSTs last year. I didnt start till the end of July and only one or two died. This year, I have already lost a couple. I think they may have come from one nursery, but I am not sure because they were with two others of their size.

I do have the four GF caterpillars and Shady Oak refunded my money for the GSTs. I wanted to try to raise them again. CalSherry has given me great suggestions on how to raise them. Right now, however, Shady Oak is out of GST eggs.

I have not had any problem getting parsley, but it is getting expensive so I am going to try to grow my own.

I have milkweed within walking distance, but I am afraid I am desimating the three little patches. I will have to drive to get milkweed soon because I am using all the milkweed to feed the caterpillars that I have.

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my post. One thing I do with the BSTs when they are small is to get a narrow vase, poke holes in it with a needle and stick the stems in. The stems hold up really well and the little ones dont seem to eat much for several days. Of course there is the danger of them drowning if they get into the water. I havent had that happen so far. But since the GSTs didnt make it, I already had a big stem of rue in a water pick and am letting some of the BSTs eats that. That eliminates the danger of drowning, though I wish the water picks were flat.

Gwynne

Gwynne, are you buying parsley at the market, or buying parsley plants? If you're getting plants, they should grow new foliage if the cats are eating all of it. Maybe you can get a couple more plants of parsley, and then alternate the ones with foliage for the cats, while waiting for the bare ones to regenerate.

Are you raising your cats in containers? What kind of containers - wire, mesh, plastic? MissSherry fastens her water picks to the side of her reptarium with those baggy ties you get with your trash bags (I think). If there's nothing to fasten them to, try to put a wad of aluminum foil around the bottom so they'll stand up, or use a toilet paper roll (you may have to cut in half, and paper towel rolls work, too) and stand it up in the container to hold your water pick upright.

I haven't lost very many to drowning. I use baby food jars filled with water, covered with either aluminum foil or Saran wrap, poke a hole (small) and run the stem thru the hole where it is sitting in the water, but the top is covered so that cats don't drown.

Ask at work if anyone has extra baby food jars - that's how I got mine. I asked one of the mothers with babies for theirs and I got tons of them.

Also, I think Tdog stacks her styrofoam cups, filling the bottom cut with some water, poking a hole in the 2nd cut and putting the cutting thru the hole so that the stem is in the water. No drowning worries.

Hope this helps!

Susan

Susan,
Thanks for the TP roll idea for holding pics up. This is my first year to use pics. My daughter sent me flowers that were in pics for Mom's Day, and I have recycled them. I never thought of going to a florist and asking for some! Duh!

Sandy

Susan, that is a great idea about the toilet paper rolls. I was using some styrofoam, but it was getting sort of yucky.

Believe it or not, until last week it never occured to me that the parsley would regrow and I have been throwing them all out!

I use mesh monarch cubes to raise the caterpillars. I havent had a problem with any drowning. My BST set up works fine. It is the monarchs that are so time consuming! Worth the effort when they eclose successfully, but time consuming!

Just curious if you got the email I sent you yesterday through the forum? I know aol doesnt forward anything sent through the forum to me, dont know what service provider you are using.

Hi!! new to posting here, but I am sharing your frustration over GSTs. I just ordered 3 more from Shady Oaks, and two bit it by the time I got up this morning. I thought maybe a tiny spider was getting the one itty bitty, but I couldnt see too well, but it may have been another cat I saw balled up over him. Thinking it was a spider, I swatted it away. So I have one lone cat left, just like last time. The last one got really big, and I guess he finally wandered off to pupate. But he sure didnt move much. So I will watch the one ittbitty. I did get some really huge PVSTs. I have never seen one! I really hope they pupate alright. And after being so sad over not getting any BSTs on my very lush fennel, I ordered some along with this order, and presto! new hatched cats! Oh and GF when just hatched look like short little yellow strings. Then they get red. I watch them munching out my kitchen window.The funny thing also is my mom thought I was insane when I started getting into this, so that my then 5 yo son could see the lifecycle, after awhile, and taking her to Shady oaks for the tour, she absolutley loves it too now. This is addictive. They're like my little babies!!--Traci

Traci, then you are in Florida? Yes, I looked up top and the Nrth FL gives you away:) May I ask if you sent away for the eggs or if you picked them up yourself? Since you mentioned a tour, I am not sure how close you are to Shady Oaks.

It sounds like you have made a couple of orders? I only ordered this once. They were out of GST eggs and sent me caterpillars which I thought would be easier to deal with anyway. Well, as you can see from my story, they werent.

How many GSTs did you order the first time? I only ordered eight as I didnt think I would have enough rue, then found four big plants after that.

You are lucky to live in FL, most of the caterpillars can not be shipped to PA. There are only about 8 or 9 that can be and I either can get them quite easily myself or they are out of season there.

So the BSTs all hatched okay? I am very disappointed that the GSTs didnt make it and am hoping the GFs will be okay.

I have gone once this seson, and I just placed my first order thru the mail this last time, as I didnt have time to go down. I am about 1 hr give or take away, but the farm is notoriously hard to find, even for a native. I'm born and raised in the Lake City- Gainesville- Jax area, and I even thought, oh I can find this place, no problem, and ended up calling(I was close.) I remeber the first time I went, I remember seeing a wild lime bush (I just got one) just loaded with hundreds of GST cats, and I was like"uhh, can I have that one?" and now that I have had such luck with mine, I really want it now. the BSTs were already hatched, and they are doing great, they've already shed their skin once. I will try again with the Giants, but Iam going to watch the one I have now, and then high pressure spray the plant once he is gone to make sure I dont have any spiders. I still suspect that both last batch(5 total), and this one (3) had a spider involved.

I would like to try again with the GSTs but they are out at the moment. CalSherry has given me some advice on how to raise them when they are so small and I would like to try it out while I have all this rue.

Gwynne,

Tomorrow I'm putting in my order for some Gulf Frit eggs, but not to many though. I also ordered BST eggs. I should have them by next Tuesday hopefully. I'll let you know how it goes~

Aggie

Please do. I am beginning to wonder if I am doing something wrong!

I don't use water in ANY of my caterpillar rearing containers. Moisture is definitely an issue where I live so I make sure all the leaves are D-R-Y. (sounds like that song again, with a slight modifidation to the lyrics, "All the leaves are dry...")

I do know there is someone else who uses the styrofoam cup idea, though.

Gwynne, if you want more of those floral picks, call me and I can send you some. :)

I am really wondering if I did something wrong. I ordered 12 GF eggs and they sent me an extra 12, for free, in case they didnt all hatch. Well, every time I looked into the cup, there were less and less eggs. I had a leaf in there as per the instructions. They said to add a fresh leaf every day and I was afraid I might be throwing away a tiny caterpillar if I threw away the old leaves so I kept adding them. After a couple of days, there were four little caterpillars and all the eggs were gone!

Gwynne - I'll check my trash box, because sometimes they throw e-mails into that instead of my inbox.

Susan

I have aol and I have tried to send a message to myself through the forum as a test. Aol doesnt even put it in the spam folder, it just never makes it through. I dont know what service provider you have, but I did send you an email through the forum explaining more about the situation.