Hmmmmm......sounds interesting, Sandy, but not my cup of tea.
Keep us posted.
Sherry

Put the cutting in water and the food will stay fresh so much longer.
S.B.

I understand that, S.B. LOL But the person who told me to do this said I wouldn't have to keep my stems or leaves in water as they'd stay fresher longer in the bags.

I'm doing this 'cause someone came over and saw my rearing containers and all my caterpillars, and thought that there was a better way. It's an experiment. It's supposed to be a lot easier with the paper bags! I'm going to see it through--no changes in the design--and then I'll review my results, and probably keep the paper bags for lunches. As you can tell, I'm skeptical.

Sandy

Sandy,

I haven't tried the paper bags yet although I do have quite a few Queen and Gulf Frit larvae right now. They are all quite young (early instars) so I am hesitant about starting them in a paper bag. I thought I'd try a few when they were in the latter instar stage to see what it would be like. But, like you, I am a visual person and feel I'd probably need to see what was going on (even hubby was checking on my reptiles today and he isn't a reptile person!).

Keep us posted on your experiment. I am quite curious, myself, as to how this is going to work.

I thought you would have known that!LOL
Keep us updated.
Thanks,
S.B.

This method is actually growing on me! My Monarch cats are doing wonderfully and these are all cats that I collected as larvae off of my milkweed. I like the fact that there isn't any moisture present in the bags. As the cats are getting bigger, they are finishing the leaves. I replace the leaves 3 times a day. And I usually just shake out the frass once. The frass is so dry and easy to get rid of. It would be a great way for kids to raise Monarchs. You could probably put a little mesh or cellophane window in the bag if you wanted to see the cats. Whatever you do, you can't recycle the bags, as you will have cut them up to remove the chrysalides to an eclosing container.

The cats are getting close to pupating so I'll write more after they form the chrysalides and then again when they eclose.

Sandy

S.B., I did have a conversation with the person who shared this idea with me. He told me he puts the leaves in picks (placed in small containers to catch any drips) with his other larvae that he raises, especially the swallowtails that may take a little longer to finish the food. He also uses the grocery-size bags and leaves them outside. He uses 7 clothes pins to fasten the bag after folding it down twice. My grocery store only has two choices, plastic or bring your own bag. But the lunch size is working with small groups of cats.

Sandy,

Sounds like you are having some fun experimenting with this "system", so is time well spent. Its a method I thoroughly tried out decades ago, way back when at the grocery store you didn't have the choice between paper or plastic (only paper or boxes). I soon learned that the negatives of using it to rear livestock outweigh any positives by ten fold, and most of them can not be overcome with this system.

Paper bags are a tool I often used as equipment for lep rearing and would still use though, but only for one purpose. To put gravid female moth and certain primitive butterfly species in to lay there eggs on. Works very well for that if the bag is lightly misted and placed where one side gets strong indirect natural light. Then its a simple matter to cut the bag into small pieces with eggs on them, and place the pieces on the larval foodplant without having to touch or disturb the eggs at all.

Have fun with it, but don't toss out your regular rearing equipment just yet girl. LOL

Larry

Wouldn't those little lunch bags would be too small when the butterflies emerge and need to spread out their wings?

I want to be able to see what's going on also.
I'm using a round trash can and have the top covered with plastic wrap, but I like the idea of having dry frass in the bottom to make it easier to dump. You don't get that with plastic.

Something new I'm trying this time: After I put plastic over the top of my trashcan, I pulled out a looong piece of plastice wrap, rolled it up like a snake, and I'm using it like a rubber band around the outside to hold the top plastic in place. They stick to each other and it's working pretty good. I can take it off and put it back on easily when I need to add leaves.

Christy,

I cut around the chrysalides and move them to an eclosing hamper. I tape the pieces of bag to the sides of the mesh hamper.

I have a chrysalis this morning and all the larvae seem intent on pupating. What I have noticed is that they don't seem to be as large as my container fed larvae. Two bags had finished all the food I put in yesterday evening. One bag had left over food. All the caterpillars are approximately the same size. When I opened the bags, I had to gently pull them apart as there were silk threads between the two sides. That made me nervous. I'll let you know how the chrysalides look when all have pupated.

Sandy

I pulled this back up because my first four chrysalides eclosed today. I had 4 beautiful Monarchs that were healthy and beautiful. There were 3 males and 1 female. Hopefully some mating will happen in the next few days.

I would give the paper bag method 4 out of 5 stars. The only problem was that in opening one of the bags, I disturbed a pupating caterpillar and it never finished forming the chrysalis. But this could be remedied by using a grocery size bag.

This method is definitely less messy than container raising. I'll probably do it again, especially if I get an overabundance of eggs.

I have seven left to eclose. So far none of the cats were parasitized before I collected them, which is also amazing to me. These cats were all in the 3rd instar when I found them. This is a much better year for Monarchs in my BY.

Sandy

Interesting.....velllly interesting, Sandy. I, too, am a visual person, so even if I'm not doing anything with the cats, I like to go by and give them a peek without opening up anything. It does seem you're having good luck with them. How do you keep them from escaping? Fold over the top and hold them down with something?

I wonder if you could purchase clear bags at one of the party supply stores - of course, then you're dealing with the moisture issue again. Too bad they can't make clear bags with those trees.

Keep us posted.

Susan (who has NO Monarchs in her milkweed laden yard)

I bet you could also cut out viewing holes out of one of the sides of the bag and glue a cut sheet of tulle on the outside as a type of a window...just thinking...

Sandy, congrats on your eclosed "bag babies"...LOL.

I'm like others who've said they feel better seeing the little guys eating and moving around in clear containers.

I'd be opening and closing the darn paper bags all the time disturbing the cats or worse!

I was rereading Tdogmom's site today and it finally sunk in that she said not to even move the Monarch cats when they're molting. When the milkweed is gone I automatically open the container, clean and put in fresh food. Bug freezes when the container is moved in the least bit. Geez, Bug could've been a goner if I hadn't reread it. I'll have to watch him carefully before I snatch up the container to change him.

Thanks, Newbie, The experiment is over. I released 11 healthy Monarchs. The last 4 eclosed today. I'll do this again, but with bigger bags. I'll limit it to Monarchs, though. They seem to be perfect for Paper Bag Raising.

Tdogmom, in one of the earlier posts, I proposed that you could add some kind of window if you felt you needed to constantly see them. I'm not for sure what I would make it out of, but tulle would work. I got to where I could look through the bags, held up to the light, and tell where the cats or chrysalides were. After interrupting the one that was pupating, I made sure I didn't fold the bag down quite as far. I also learned that when the food was gone, the cats crawled up the sides of the bag. Frass was so easy to clean out. I just dumped it out as it was very dry.

I think you would want to put in caterpillars that had all hatched at approximately the same time. I put in caterpillars that I found on the plants and sorted them in the bags by size. That worked out pretty well.

Success rate compares favorably with container raised cats. As I have raised over a 1000 Monarch cats, I'm not as inclined to need to see them. So, this fall when I am collecting 50 or more eggs a day, I'll probably use grocery bags and sandwich bags, as well as containers, to rear the masses! ; )

Sandy

Sandy,

With the numbers of Monarchs you are raising and releasing, do you check for OE?

Yes. I don't have a microscope, but I do have a magnifying glass that I use to examine them before they are released. Last year, I had more suspect ones(euthanized). This year has been a good year. I've destroyed 2 Monarchs. It has also been a drier and hotter year up until the last couple of days. We've gotten about 3 inches of rain since Friday with cooler temps, so I'm sure I will really have to be diligent about disease in the coming weeks. I'm not finding eggs at the moment. I found my last 4 earlier this week. I think it's the lull before the big egg laying effort in late August and September.

Sandy