Oh, my, I haven't heard that and I've read quite a bit about them....I wonder where she got that information...one would think that after a hundred years of being available to butterlies in America they would have become accustommed to that nectar...

I do know that many web sites say buddlieas are very invasive, especially in warm climates, and are considered verboten in the garden by many garden writers and naturalists.

Just recently though I read that there is at least one very attractive 'native' variety of butterfly bush that is more acceptable in terms of invasiveness but it blooms earlier in the growing season (and thus probably not as attractive for butterfly gardeners' late season lepidoptera). This particular variety is not widely marketed, though.

I also read that buddliea hybridizers (Dirr?) are creating a range of sterile varieties to address the invasiveness issue. That's good news for butterfly gardeners.

I have a couple of the older B. davidii's in the garden and with respect to the invasiveness, I do try to be vigilant with the dead-heading. When they go I'll replace them with sterile versions.

I have a few of the sterile types and they seem to be good garden performers here in Ohio.

I've heard they are invasive too but I've never seen one growing in the wild. I have 2- actually the butterflies seem to prefer other sources of nectar if they are available. Every year my most frequented plant for nectar is regular 'ol common milkweed

My 2 buddliea's yield about a dozen unwanted offspring each year which get relocated to friend's yards. I would agree they are fairly invasive. Not sure how to comment on the effects on my butterfly population. I can say that the tiger swallowtails love them.

That is so odd to me. I know it is true that they are invasive, since I have read so much about it..

But I live in Alabama, the queen of invasives...Think kudzu, wistria and mimosa...all of these grow with abandon along the roads and the yards of this state. I fight mimosas regularly since theywill just suddenly start growing just about anywhere.

But I have had exactly one volunteer butterfly bush in the twelve years of having a B davidii. I left that volunteer where it grew, but it died two years later. I have four other butterfly bushes, but none of thm have so far sprouted a volunteer anywhere. It must take more than heat for them to spread, because we sure have plenty of that.

That big ol' davidii bush gets more butterfly visits than all the other plants combined. Only lantana gives it any competition in my yard. That is a good thing, because I would hate to have to dig up that monster bush.

kay

I am a native plant enthusiast, and more than willing to critique the problems with non-native plants. But this idea of the nectar somehow stressing the butterflies sounds ludicrous. I have observed native butterflies feeding on many non-native flowers. Nectar is basically sugar water, in varying concentrations. Did she have scientific data to support her statement? It doesn't help anyone to have misinformation spread about non-native plants.

On the other hand, Buddleia is reported to be invasive in some regions of the US. But that is unlikely to ever be the case here in zone 5, where it is borderline hardy, and adult plants can be lost during a harsh winter. My 2 butterfly bushes have never made a single seedling, doesn't seem to matter whether I deadhead religiously or not.

I can't imagine that the nectar would stress butterflies. It just doesn't make sense to me. I'd like to see the study if there is one.

Many years ago, I had three different butterfly bushes and got one or two volunteers. I've removed all of those and just have Pink Delight now which has never produced ANY volunteers. It attracts butterflies better than my other varieties did. I haven't been able to find any seeds on it.

I have never seen one growing along a roadside here.

You might be more likely to get unwanted seedlings if you have more than one variety and they pollinate each other. Try planting just one and see what happens. They bloom such a long time and are so loved by butterflies. I think it's worth a try.

My thanks to all who responded to my question. You have pretty much reinforced what I have been thinking and also what I have seen in my own experience with the butterfly bush. The butterflies all love it and as you say Terrene, sugar water is just that, and I cannot see how it would stress the butterflies, since they are always swarming around the bush. I also have never seen where they are invasive; I never saw any seedlings coming up around my established plants.

I really do believe the woman needs to get her facts correct before giving out this kind of information. She had me worried there for a while. I'm happy to have the experts on this forum to answer my questions and concerns.

Thanks again to you all.

Sue

Doug Tallamy, an entomologist with the University of Delaware, seems to be the go to guy for all things anti-butterfly bush. He has called butterfly bush "junk food" for butterflies. But I've never read about him saying that butterflies can become stressed after eating butterfly bush nectar.

KC

Well, this is sort of timely. I have been reading a lot about nectar. First, let me say that I have not read any study that says that butterfly bush makes butterflies crazy. But there is more to nectar than meets the eye (I find this to be true of most stuff concerning butterflies). First of all nectar can have different types of sugars, water content, and additional components (it is not just sugar water). To start with most nectar is a combination of three sugars, sucrose, glucose, and fructose in ratios. Butterflies seem to prefer high sucrose ratios and this is what Buddleia has, as do other plants. However, nectar is not just sugar. In addition, it can have amino acids and other allelochemicals. Amino acids can be very important to butterflies. For females that did not get enough nitrogen while larva, they will seek out nectar with additional amino acids to make up this deficiency. One interesting experiment would be to watch your butterfly bush and see if predominantly males or females nectar on it. I have not read if Buddleia has amino acids in the nectar or not. Females will do this till their need is met. In addition, some plants will put noxious chemicals in their nectar to ward off nectar robbers and attract the pollinators it wants. Joe pye weed nectar contains pyrrolizadine alkaloids (PAHs), which are known toxins that both tiger moths and Monarchs use for pheromone production and toxicity. These Leps have adapted to using PAHs. I was interested in Bob's photos showing other butterflies nectaring on Joe Pye weed as it must not affect a lot of butterflies. Or else something else is going on. There are several species of Joe Pye and it may make the difference. Some species of plants have very bitter nectar for use by birds as they don't taste bitter.

Another interesting factor is the attractant chemicals that flowers put out to attract pollinators. Many of our native plants put out chemical odors that are way diffent than flowers from Europe and elsewhere in the world. This indicates a separation of our species vs. old world pollinators. I have not read more on this but would be interested to see further study as to whether this makes a difference to butterflies. Clearly, buddleia does have attractants to new world leps.

One concern is that when pollinators have a plant that allows for easy nectar, that they don't do the heavy lifting in pollination. In other words, they don't work multiple plants and increase pollination. I suspect this is the case for Buddleia, but I have a hard time believing that the fate of pollination rests on tiger swallowtails.

Most important though is that the butterfly has to be able to reach the nectar. This is through a combination of landing ability (based on flower shape) and corolla length (the flower tube). One of the interesting things about butterfly bush is that smaller butterflies probably cannot reach the nectar. The tube length is longer in butterfly bush than in composite flowers (Asteracea). I have not taken the time recently to observe, but would like to know if small butterflies, such as hairstreaks, skippers, blues, etc., can even use butterfly bush. If we are putting in flowers for butterflies, we should put in plants that they can all use or a variety anyway. I guess the lesson is not to rely on any one species to attract butterflies. They need a diversity of plants.

This study discusses the nectar content of Buddleia and the prefered varieties.
http://www.clemson.edu/cafls/departments/horticulture/research/ornamental/landscape/pdf/butterfly_visitation.pdf

Sorry for the book. Nothing in the Lep world is as simple as it seems.

Cheers,
Elisabeth

Forgot one thing. Butterfly bush in one study attracted more predators than other plants in the study..

-Elisabeth

WOW!! Elisabeth, thank you so much for your input into this discussion. There is a lot of food for thought here. I know one thing for sure, though. I do not want to do anything at all to harm butterflies, because I love them so much. They are truly flying jewels in my book. And I don't want to see their numbers diminish.

Interestingly enough, I have not witnessed any of the smaller butterflies on the Buddleia bush, only the larger swallowtails in my backyard. And I have cabbage whites, red admirals and hairstreaks,tiny azure blues and also monarchs, and a couple of others that I don't know the identity of that occasionally visit my flowers.

Thanks for your response.

Sue

FWIW,

I see all sizes of butterflies on my Buddleias. Lots of skippers nectar on them. In fact, I find more skippers on my Buddleias than I do the big guys. Particularly, Fieries, Sachems, Tawny-edged, and Crosslines. I find Buckeyes, Red Admirals, Painted Ladies and Am Ladies, Monarchs, Viceroys, all kind of Swallowtails, including the Zebra Swallowtail, Fritillaries, and Gray Hairstreaks. Maybe it would be easier to list the ones I don't see on it! I even see Questionmarks and Hackberries nectaring on it. I also see all kinds of bees and the hummers using it.

IMHO, Buddleia is a great nectar source--even if it doesn't meet the criteria of being native.

Most of my other plants are native or native-derived. So butterflies get a wide variety of nectar choices. Lantana and Verbena bonairiensis aren't natives either. But, they are great nectar sources.

Sandy

Sandy, Thanks for your comments also. I do get a lot of butterflies on my lantana and verbena too.

I wish my garden had as many of the different kinds you mentioned.