Hi Sherry,

Could you please post the name of the nursery that you order your plants from? I know you sent it to me before, but I can't find it. I want to order that pipevine. I tried growing some from seeds, but was unsuccessful. I've seen so many butterflies already this year. I can see that my efforts are paying off, I'm so glad!

Thanks!

(The other) Sherri
(one of them, lol)

Sherry,

I've got 2 tomentosa's in pots waiting to be planted....and need help. I'm coastal 8b, hot in summer like you. Can these guys take heavy sun if their feet are truly well muclhed, or should I put them on an east facing that's blocked on south side (inside an "L" shape where house connects to garage) they'd gem am sun to about noon in the 3 longest months, but after that I fear just direct sunlight. Other option is west facing, and I can really mulch the roots.

Sheri, I've ordered my a. tomentosa vines from several different sources. It seemed to me like the ones that I ordered from Niche Gardens in NC were the most vigorous, so, when I decided to order 3 more vines this year, I first e-mailed them and asked if their vines still came from the same Oklahoma stock that my original vines came from, and when they said yes, I decided to go ahead and order them even though they cost more - $12 each - than other nurseries charge. Some of my existing vines came from Pine Ridge Gardens in Arkansas and Mail Order Natives in Florida. It may be that my first vines from Niches just happened to get the best spot in my garden, I don't know. All three of the nurseries I mentioned are great!
Here's their websites -
www.nichesgardens.com
www.mailordernatives.com
www.pineridgegardens.com
I planted mine in raised beds in my regular soil with manure mixed in - manure really helps my soil, but other people have said it doesn't help as much, so I guess it just depends on what type of soil you have. I work chicken manure into the soil around the vines every spring and sometimes a little again in late summer.
Paul, my vines grow in varying amounts of sunlight, but the ones that are the most vigorous get about ?7-8 hours of sun each day. I personally don't think they'd do well stuck out in a full sun place, but I know they also don't grow well in mostly shade - they do need some sun.
I've tried planting them directly in the soil, and they haven't done as well as they have in raised beds, so I've planted my 3 new very small vines together in a large pot. When they get bigger, I plan to make a raised bed for them that I'll put in a sunny spot in my woods - since the hurricane, my woods are a lot sunnier, and there are many places that get the same amount of sun as my most vigorous garden vines. I don't know what it is about the raised beds, unless it's the drainage - maybe they need more oxygen than they can get planted directly in my regular soil. I plan to put this raised bed close enough to an arching tree that the vines can climb up the tree - the hurricane has provided me with several arching trees that I didn't have cut, because they looked like good ones for vines to grow on. I've also got some crossvines planted at the base of some other arched or curved trees. I'd really like to have some big vines growing in the woods, as well as my garden.
MissSherry

MissSherry- not only am I jealous you have PVS eggs but you have spring and we're still in winter mode ;-( BUT! I am so happy for you!!! I am still in awe how nature bounced back so strongly after the terrible hurricane.

Edna

I'm amazed at how much nature has bounced back, too, Edna!
I've tried to help as many types of wildlife as I could - we're feeding deer corn to the herd for the first time, since they lost their acorns and much of the foliage they browse.
I've only seen one snake since the hurricane, and I haven't seen ANY armadilloes - YAY!! I hate armadilloes! They were introduced (can you believe somebody could do something so dumb!?) to Florida and spread all over the southeast from there - they didn't cross the Mississippi River like some people have said.
I would like to see some snakes, at least I guess I would. The bluebird box on the corner of my property - facing an open field - is full of nestlings. At least with no snakes around, I don't have to worry about them!
MissSherry

Sherry,

Thank you so much. I am definitely going to order!! I've seen so many different types of butterflies already this year and I don't have anything growing for the pipevine swallowtails. I guess there must be some natives though, because they're around. I've also seen giant swallowtails flying around my lemon tree. It's so exciting....

Sherri

Congrats! Congrats! Miss Sherry. It's always so exciting to hear when you get your first PVST eggs. Perhaps this year I'll get my own PV eggs.

Thanks so much for the info about how much sun your pipevines get. The ones that I have that get very early morning sun only have not grown as much as the ones that get more sun. Glad to hear that the clematitis are loving where they are. They are of Mediterranean origin. But somewhere I read that they have naturalized in the northeast. I find that interesting, because they do seem to take off when it gets hot and dry.

About how much chicken manure to a small plant? 1/2 cup?

Hope everyone has good luck attracting PVST eggs this season.

Linda, there's no set amount of chicken manure I use either when I first plant a pipevine or when I fertilize my established vines in the spring. When I plant a pipevine, I dig a hole bigger than the container the pipevine is in, take the soil I've dug out of the hole and mix chicken manure in with it. The number of handfuls depends on how much dirt I've got. I'd estimate that I use a ratio of about 1 handful of manure to about 5 handfuls of my native soil. I don't re-fertilize a small, newly planted vine right away - the original manure in the planting soil is enough for about a year.
When I fertilize my established vines, I work about ?4-?7 handfuls of fertilizer into the soil around the plants. There are some plants that can't tolerate any kind of fertilizer, including chicken manure, which is high in N-P-K for an organic fertilizer. Pipevines aren't one of those plants, though. At least for me, with my particular soil, they respond to whatever it is that manure has in it that chemical fertilizers don't.
MissSherry

Thanks Miss Sherry. You are so generous in sharing your wealth of knowledge. Today it's Chicken maure ala cart for the aristolochias!

NICE PIC MISSSHERRY!YOUR PVS START EARLY.I HAVENT SEEN THEM YET HEAR IN VA.THE WEATHER HAS BEEN BACK AND FORTH SO I GUESS THEY WILL WAIT ONE MORE WEEK TO MAKE THERE APPEARENCE.

I found another cluster of eggs - I think that makes it at least 5 clusters. With there being an average of about 15? per cluster, I figure there're at least 75 eggs out there. I'm cleaning cages for cats - the really big one for PVSs and a normally big one for spicebush and or palamedes cats.
The butterfly season is really underway!
MissSherry

Wow, I ordered the pipe vines from mail order natives and they're already here!! I'm so excited. Sherry, do you grow them in full sun or part shade? I put mine in pots because we're supposed to have some trees removed and I don't want to chance putting them in the ground just yet. I read about the chicken manure above, but do you have any other hints to grow them well?

Thanks,

Sherri

That does it!!

I'm ordering.

DH will have a fit!

:::giggle:::

I have several vines, Sherri, some that get about 7 hours of sun each day (if it were sunny all day, which of course it isn't always), and some others that only get about 4? hours of sun each day. The ones that get the most sun are the most vigorous vines, but they're NOT the first choice of the PVS females for egg-laying. You can't believe how many egg clusters I've found on the shade vines, about twice as many as on the sunnier vines! This happens every year, so I usually wind up bringing in a lot of cats from the shade vines, and then feeding them leaves that mostly have come from the sunnier vines. I've never grown any in a totally sunny situation - you know, like out in an open field where the sun shines on them from sunrise to sunset, because I don't have an open field and, even if I did, I wouldn't want to plant them there, because that's too different from their natural environment.
I think the most important thing - other than getting about 4-9 hours of sun each day - would be to plant them in some type of raised bed. My garden vines in raised beds have done great, while those I've planted right in the ground, all outside my garden, haven't. The ones I've planted outside my garden, in addition to being planted right in the ground, keep getting eaten by deer and/or rabbits, so that might be the reason I've never gotten them going. Still, when I plant my next ones outside my garden, I'll be planting them in a small raised bed that I'll put at the base of the sunny side of a tall tree - got a lot of sunny sides since the hurricane.
Add chicken manure or cow manure if you can't get chicken, plant in a raised bed (I use 2X6 lumber, and fill the dirt about halfway up, so that it's about 3" higher than the surrounding soil), keep the soil moist, especially when they're young, and, if you can, protect them from deer and rabbits. If you can get them going, they'll REALLY grow - you should see mine!
MissSherry

MissSherry,

I have struggled where to put my tomentosas...settle on an east facing site that's blocked form south. I'm told they like their roots cool. All my other sites will get so much hot summer sun I'm afraid they'll fry. I did plant an A Durior on a wast facing pole, but will be shielding it with some lattice. Sure hope I get some PVS's!

I sure hope you do, too, Paul! Sounds like you've picked a good site for it - morning sun is always good!
DH will get over it, Candy! :)
Two of the egg clusters were infertile, at least I guess that's what the problem was - they turned yellow and are partly disintegrated. There're plenty more on the vines, though, and one of them has hatched!
{{gwi:464249}}
MissSherry

Thank you for that advice, Sherry. I appreciate it.

Sherri

You're welcome, Sherri!
I was out watering my garden (and my weeds, unfortunately) when I noticed one of my pipevine leaves had that chewed-by-a-group look, so I looked behind it, and there were 4 little PVS cats, about 2nd or 3rd instar! This makes me wonder if those "infertile" eggs just hatched and the hatchlings moved on to other leaves. My garden vines have gotten so dense, it's easy for eggs and cats to hide!
{{gwi:464252}}
MissSherry

WELL MISSSHERRY LOOKS LIKE YOU GONNA HAVE A RECORD NUMBER OF PVS AND ITS ONLY APRIL.YOUR VINES LOOK GREAT.I HOPE I HAVE THE SAME LUCK.I ORDERRED MY A.CLEMETIS.HOPEFULLY THEY WILL BE HEAR THIS WEEK.

ITS SEEMS LIKE EVERYONE IS ORDERING NATIVE ARISTOLOCHIAS THIS YEAR.ALOT OF NUSERIES ARE ALREADY SOLDOUT.I GOT MINES FROM LASY`S IN VIRGINIA.A.CLEMETIS OF COURSE.I`M THINKING ABOUT ORDER MAYBE THREE A.DURIOR AND THREE A.TOMENTOSA FOR MY ALLEY FENCE.I`M ALSO PLANING TO GET SOME LANTANAS FOR MY ADULT BUTTERFLIES.

The vines that are in the mostly shady part of my garden are colonizing! They've sent up new shoots in about 6 or 7 different places, several outside the raised bed they're in. I'm going to dig up one of them tomorrow and see if they have actual roots on them or if they just popped up from a ?stolon? or whatever you call those runners that don't have any little fibrous roots. Hopefully, it'll have some real roots, but if it doesn't, I'm going to pot it up and try and root it myself.
There are lots of little cats on the vines, so I brought some more of them into a different cage to raise myself. The first four I brought in are real big, about ready to pupate. While I was out in my garden gathering cats, a female PVS was fluttering around the vines the way they do when they're about to lay eggs, so I went inside and got my camera. When I got back, she was laying a HUGE cluster of eggs - it took her a long time to get them all out, so I was able to get a picture. I'll count them tomorrow, but from a distance, I'd guess there were 35 or 40 in the group - it definitely looks like the biggest cluster I've ever seen!
{{gwi:464253}}
MissSherry

MissSherry,

Congrtas on (hopefully) getting your pipevine to colonize! I hope you have fun raising your cats.

I will!
I tried to count them, but couldn't accurately do it, because they're so piled up on each other, however, I don't think there're 40, "only" about 30. I found two more clusters close by, though, and they were real big ones, too! I've already got LOTS of cats on my vines, so when these all hatch, they should be teeming with pipevine swallowtail cats!
MissSherry

My A. clematitis is up and looking good! It's just a pretty small clump still. Not enough to support any cats. I hope it grows some more. However, it's much more vigorous than last year when I first planted it. It's already had it's dose of chicken manure. A. baetica has NOT come up yet - ordered both from Lazy S's Farms. I don't know if it died, or if it just comes up later, since I don't know much about it.

A. durior (tomentosa) is a native in Oklahoma. I need to see if any of the nurseries around here carry it, and then I'll need to isolate it until it has proven chemical free.

My spicebushes have leafed out - but they're small, too. They "could" support a very small family of cats, if they find them.

Congratulations, Miss Sherry on your PVS's!

I just planted out my hops vine seedlings. I hope they prove to be vigorous! And, I planted out all my Rue seedlings. I hope to have a "field of Rue". Also my bulb fennel and parsley seedlings are coming up.

I just found out that my morus bombycis unryu is actually in the morus alba group, so I could get silk worms on it! I am going to watch this closely from now on. Also watching the Virginia Creeper, and the Ampelopsis brevipedunculata for cats. I have tons of things in the solonacae family to plant out, including tomatoe plants, solanum quitense, daturas, and shoo fly plant. We will pray for hawk moths.

Monkey flower is supposed to be a host for something. I've forgotten. Need to go back to my host plant list.
My brain often fails me.

Susan

Mine too, Susan!
You're really getting your host plants going, so you'll be having LOTS of cats in the near future! Congrats, congrats - it's a lot of hard work - but well worth it!
MissSherry

The first four PVSs have emptied their guts - yuck! Some are still running around frantically, and the others are pupating.
The life cycle of PVSs marches on!
MissSherry

wow that female had alot of eggs in her.you have enough pvs to populate canada lol.pvs are such vigoruos butterflies.you can plant a dutchmans pipe in the middle of a dump and they will find it.your vines seem to be doing very well despite the enormous numbers of pvs.they seem to be growing like crazy.i guess imma have to invest in some chicken manure.i get mine this week from lasy`s.they delayed my shipment to go out the 24th because they where just coming up.mailordernatives has a.tomentosa for 6$ each which is a good deal.i just hope mine are as vigorous as yours

I hope everybody gets their vines going good this year! Mine really are vigorous! I dug up three of the volunteers, and I was sure they were going to wilt immediately, because I had to break the big root that connected them to the main plant. I potted them up in some good dirt, watered them, put them in a shady spot, and then it rained on them yesterday. This morning, they're still turgid and healthy looking! I did notice that they had some small fibrous roots of their own - if they can keep making more of those, then I'll have three more a. tomentosas to plant.
The original four cats I brought in have all successfully pupated - three are brown and one is green. The others that I brought into another cage are starting to pupate also - when you have plenty of tender new growth to feed your PVS cats, and don't have to use older leaves, they grow SOOOO fast and pupate so easily!
You should see all the cats on my vines now - you wouldn't believe your eyes!
MissSherry

oooh,missherry!i dont know if i asked you this before or not.i got my a.clemetis. most of the other native species are viny and need support like a fence or a trellis or something.does a.clemetis need support or can i pretty much plant it anywhere.i know a.serpentaria and a.erecta are independent and dont have that viny habit they just need shade and moisture.is a.clemetis the same way?

MissSherry....I have 3 young pipevines, 2 tomentosas and 1 durior. Not seen a PVS, but Noodeler has severl small specimens at his nursery, and what do you know, he had a girl that was all over them! I bought 2 with eggs on it to rescue him, as well as start me....but mine aren't even that big....so hoping I have enough food for them!!!

Congrats, Paul!! That's a good way to get a colony going - get a start from somebody else!
Luvmybattusphilenors, a. clematitis only gets about 18" tall, maybe 24" max, so it doesn't need any support. The leaves unfurl in much the same way as Virginia snakeroot. A. clematitis spreads by underground runners - you should see the bed I planted mine in - they're growing here and there all over the whole bed!
The second group I brought in to raise (12 of them) have started to pupate, one already today. I saw this one wriggle out of it's caterpillar skin, drop it to the floor of the cage like a sock, keep on wriggling (for what? to further secure itself with silk?) then settle down and slowly assume the PVS chrysalid form. It was vedddy interesting!
MissSherry

After two weeks as chrysalids, two of the first four 2006 cats have emerged, a male and a female. A female PVS laid some eggs today on my Virginia snakeroots/a. serpentaria - she only laid one or two eggs on each plant. Most of the plants are bigger this year and have more leaves than in years previous, which I assume comes from having developed bigger root systems.
The last clusters of eggs I found were on my big a. tomentosa vines, and they were some of the biggest I've ever had. Here's a picture of two little eggs on one of the snakeroots -
{{gwi:464255}}
MissSherry

I have 17 cats, 3 very eaten plants indoors in pots (5 cats have wandered away...lost)

I am clipping some leaves from my small but growing ourdoot pipevines....but they're not growing well...I have 2 some fish emulsion today. Sure hope my guy comes through with those mature plants!

I guarantee you'll need those mature plants, Paul! PVSs eat like monarch cats - hugely!!
I noticed when I took the dogs out this morning that the other two chrysalids have become transparent. You can't see through a PVS chrysalid like you can, say, a monarch chrysalid, but they will be emerging today.
I found individual PVS eggs on some of my a. clematitis leaves and a good-sized cluster on some catless a. tomentosa vines in a shady corner of my garden. PVS females appear to be smarter than some butterfly Mamas - they don't lay eggs on leaves that are likely to get eaten by cats, and the number of eggs they lay is in proportion to the size of the plant they lay them on.
MissSherry

Wow. Ms. Sherry, I've learned more about A. clematitis and durior on this thread than in anywhere else on the Web. Please consider updating Wikpedia with some of your knowledge, you have alot to share to a lot of people.
Kathy

Thanks, Kathy!
I'm not familiar with Wikipedia or how it works - what brought you to this old thread?
MissSherry

It's a very good thread on pipevines (plants and cats). I also purchased my A. clematitis from Lazy S's. Very good nursery. However, this year I ordered from Mail Order Natives and Woodlanders mostly. I now have 4 Aristolochia species: clematitis, serpentaria, macrophylla (durior), and tomentosa. One of these days, I hope to get pipevines, but my plants are just too small yet to really support a colony of those voracious caterpillars!

Wikipedia is kind of like an internet encyclopedia, MissSherry. I use it quite often. I think Kathy has a great idea about your contributing to it.

Susan