Dear Arif,
WOW! Some of these questions have come up in the past, and I don't think you ever really got answers. It would be great if Hans-Werner, Del, Blanca, Maria, or other experts with years of Hippeastrum growing would chime in.

Here are my thoughts...not really answers:
1) Does a bulb flower repeatedly every year under same conditions? - I think you could count on a bulb to flower annually or more often if they were grown under optimal conditions. If conditions are less than optimal, they may bloom every year as that is their normal cycle; however, they may go into an odd cycle. I was always under the impression that stressing a plant actually induces blooming as it is the bulb's mechanism for reproduction and survival. I would therefore guess as that as long as the conditions are adequate, and there have been no extreme stressors at a critical time in (internal) scape development, you could/should expect an annual bloom.

2) Does a forced dormancy help in inducing it to flower? I think that this may be part of the stress --> bloom "thing". If stored in the cold/cool, they are tricked into thinking that it is spring once they are exposed to warmth and sun. I know that forcing may cause a bulb to skip an annual bloom cycle as their internal clock may (not always) be disturbed. The growth of the scape for the next season's bloom starts long before the emergence of the scape. I know that when I cut apart the bulb in August, the little scape was already well formed deep in the heart of the bulb.

3) How to force dormancy on bulbs growing in garden? The soil never dries out completely. In Spring, TX (north of Houston) I cover my bulbs with leaves. This blocks out the light and the leaves wither and die back, but it still allows them to breath. The winters are cool enough that they don't grow through the leaves. If you are concerned about the water, could you put stakes every few feet and cover your bulbs with a tarp so that they dry out, but the tarp won't hold moisture in, thus they won't rot as it is not sitting right down on the neck of the bulbs? Just a thought.

4) Is there a natural life of a hippi bulb? I think there must be as I have a pot of Candy Cane from Ludwig that was sold in 1991. I know that I don't have the original bulb as it freely makes offsets. Even some Gordie bulbs had offsets and then the mother bulb disappeared. I think the lifespan depends on the vigor, but am sure there is a natural lifespan. Don't know what it is. Guess we could start counting years on some of our seedlings! Tag the bulb with a copper wire/tag to ID it as original and see how long THAT bulb lives.

5) They say it takes three years for full development of root system, you think it is true. I know that some of my yearling bulblets had awesome root systems. Maybe in the ground the roots will be as large and extensive as they will be when they are 3, but I think the point here is growing young bulbs in a loose medium that encourages massive root development. The more roots the bulb has, the more efficient it can be at nutrient uptake. Perhaps a 4-yr old bulb's roots aren't anymore expansive than a 3-yr old...basal plate health, etc figure into it as well. A well treated bulb probably has as many points on the basal plate from which roots will emerge as it every will have in its life. Roots from an older bigger bulb may be proportionately larger/thicker. Hmmm...another research project! :-)

6) Whenever I pull out a bulb it has many dead roots along with healthy ones. Do they shed roots like leaves? I think they must. I've found the same thing. Do you know if new roots grow from the spot where the dead root was removed from?

Thanks for asking such though provoking questions. Again, these are just my thoughts...I think there's lots of room for "it depends".
:-)
Kristi

Ryan, I bet your bulbs' roots are different growing hydroponically! The nutrients should be readily accessible to your bulbs, whereas water flow, absorption in "soil/media" is different in each pot.
K

What about stale soil? In african violets, stale soil-- the type that air does not regularly circulate etc-- is never used by the plant. Is it safe to assume this is true for hippies? And does this affect plants in ground?

As for growing these plants hydroponically-- while true I enjoy growing them this way, I can tell you I have witnessed a life-cycle of roots... they're shed just like the leaves, or so it seems. But at the same time they're always being replaced. Some of my large cultivars such as Royal Velvet have about 15-20 thick white roots coming from the basal plate and thats it. They don't wind around the pot but develop into the reservoir, branch out to secondary and possibly tertiary roots at most and thats it. Most of my bulbs have put on size and bulblets grown this way-- but like soil growing, some have not.

DR

Ryan ask What about stale soil?
In my view and opinions
Though out many parts of this forum are suggestions that re-potting should take place every second to third year which would/should resolve a solid/stale soil/media problem.

When you ask: Is it safe to assume this is true for hippies?
Each bulb here tends to have a growing habit different from the other if grown in a free draining medium or peat type soil and/or hydrotron. IMO it would also be true for some different growth if one where to use the same plant (Example Red Lion) in each type of media....It would also be true for some differences of growth if three red lions where in the same meadia even if the differences would be slight.

And does this affect plants in ground? Yes what is true for the container is true for ground the growing plant soil or whats true for ground soils is true for the container soils.

As supported by your own observations when you say:
Most of my bulbs have put on size and bulblets grown this way-- but like soil growing, some have not.

Ryan, I bet your bulbs' roots are really efficient and probably "smaller", not filling the pot etc because all of the nutrients are really readily available to them. I think Hippi root grow around pockets of hard or stale soile...but I use a fairly porous mix that drains well, do I'm not a good judge. Didn't really get the "stale soil" topic...
Kristi

I only brought it up because when I did use soil, I found the center of my pots had no roots but the outer soil, against the pot, were packed and even root-bound. Why is this? Is it because of the lateral nature of their growth? I don't think it is, because when I unpot a hippie grown in hydroton, the pot is filled evenly with roots-- no empty spots.

I bet if you unpot your hippies, Kristi, you'll find a lot more roots on the outer areas of the sol but also in the center, too. These roots love light and airy.

Arif, I don't know how long hippies can live, but I've had one of my bulbs since the late '80s. So, it's over 20 years old.
Michelle

Regarding roots- a very interesting question. I think it is only natural for a plant to shed roots just as it does leaves. Why would the plant have the strong inherent ability to grow new roots if there wasn't a reason to do so? Roots are accidentally destroyed naturally (think rodents or bears)or may need renewal. I have no scientific evidence but it appears normal for roots to die and for new one's to take their place.

DR- I don't agree a less massive root system is more efficient- it totally depends on the plant- think pine trees growing in limited soil or cacti, they grow a different root system than a deep rooted perennial. In many cases of plants grown in ground you actually encourage deep root growth by not giving them excess nutrition (like grass). Obviously hydroponically grown plants in containers may be different and I know nothing about them but I think you would want an adequate root system. I think the hipps easily grow new roots tho, else they wouldn't grow so easy for us.

Stale soil sounds like waterlogged soil which most of us agree is not so good. Plants growing naturally in the ground which drains naturally (and isn't waterlogged through human intervention)shouldn't have that problem unless it's a bog! Interesting questions!

Ryan- I should amend my response to say that I notice the hippy bulbs do seem to grow their roots from the side or near the side of the basal plate. As a result I do find a zone of dirt caught in the very middle just below the plate. They seem to grow down below that however, and seem to like a deep as opposed to shallow pot. Are you saying that yours grow roots from the entire bottom of the basal plate? Thanks- Sally

Hi salpal--

I wasn't suggesting that a smaller root system was ideal or more efficient for every plant only that it seems to be reasonable to think that if a plant has everything it needs, it doesn't need to go looking-- so it doesn't waste the energy growing a larger system to reach those nutrients it needs (including water in this). And as for the it depending on the plant, I think I was considering hippies only when I wrote those responses. And in the end, I would think the plant, given the conservative nature of Nature, any root system that does grow for a particular plant, hippie or otherwise, will be the most efficient for that plant and its environment. My root systems for my hippies is comprised of relatively few roots as compared to its soil-grown counterparts. That's not suggesting the plants do any better or worse (in either direction) as I have cases where soil-grown plants have done very well, too. I consider my communal pots as an example of this, considering I have at least one bulb that seems to really enjoy stretching out in a big pot. So with that, my disclaimer-- I can only talk about what I've personally observed. Thankfully, our bulbs are masterful in the way they grow... in any condition.

Re the roots-- no I have none that grow straight down in the pot, even in hydroponics-- but unlike the soil plants, the area beneath the bulbs in hydroponics is used-- so perhaps a very small area immediately underneath the plant is still void of roots, but more of the pot is more evenly used....does that make sense?

DR

Many of my bulbs do not bloom every year. One skipped 3 years in a pot.Papillios are the worst.
The roots are missing in the centre and clogged on the pot wall,both in clay pots as well as in plastic pot. I think it is the Air at the boundary, this air space keeps increasing with the root growth.
Once I covered my Amaryllis bed soil with 1 inch of rice husk, later I found the roots growing horizontally under the rice husk.
When I re-plant my bulbs the old roots always die and the plant is under stress until new roots take over. On re-planting irrespetive of season some bulbs get started after a short setback and some go dormant and take a long time to start growth.

I've read the roots are 'opportunistic', they don't necessarily grow towards water or nutrients but the roots prosper where the water and nutrients are. The reason why roots collect on the outside I think has to do with A.)The roots that form first anchor the bulb into its current position *growing horizontally* and B.)The outside of the pot is the most favorable for the roots considering 1. Water 2. Air and 3.Nutrients carried from the water and air.

I think I explained before too that many cultivars originated from h. papilio and that these could have some epiphytic nature! *resulting is very shallow root systems* There is a very recent post on IBS involving Hippeastrum calyptratum *which is an epiphytic specie*, it was mounted to cork board and it's seriously benefiting! It's grown amongst orchids and has put on a substantial root system! *attached a link at the bottom for all interested in seeing pics!* My point is, Hippeastrum come from some areas where there isn't soil or silt to grow in. A lot of their culture is unknown, we know that they can be grown in potting mediums composed of coco coir or peat moss but is that really what they want? Some species are aquatic *h. angustifolium, h. breviflorum, h. harisonii*, epiphytic *h. aulicum, h. calyptratum, h. papilio* and I know there are probably some lithopytes *possibly H. parodii, H. argentinum*. It's very difficult to understand the root systems and life cycles of Hippeastrum, especially if we don't understand the natural areas where the species are from!

Many species have rest periods, some very long *h. parodii* and some very short *h. striatum*, some are evergreen *h. brasilianum*. Some plants can perish without rest periods! I know we're talking about hybrids but this is where it all originated! Our plants will tell us what they want, we just have to listen ;)

Here is a link that might be useful: Hippeastrum calyptratrum growing epipytically!

What information do we know about the soil and growing conditions of amaryllis in nature? What temperatures are they experiencing during their year? Is their soil basic or acid or neutral? Which native amaryllis are most likely to be incorporated into our hybrids?

I am still struggling to find a potting soil that is available to me here in the pacific northwest, or components to build one. Since I live on a small Island anything that is not at our local hardware stores would entail an energy and money sucking trip off island...where should I head to find what I need? I tried a very dry mix and was not happy with it, and we were all trying coir a few years ago and that was not good. I have tried cactus planting soil...better then some but not sure if it is good or not. Experimenting with my greenhouse, I am finding too many issues with moisture and rot, but when the sun shines more it will be much hotter and dryer in there. They like the sun exposure but not the winter temperatures and moisture (some rain leaking where hubby never got around to caulikng it (has to wait now for warm dry weather), The sun has been so low on the horizon that there is not direct sun for much of the winter day, but that will improve radically. I have over 150 bulbs plus babies so changing all the soil will be a huge project and I want to get it right before I do.

Noni,

Hippeastrum are from all over S. America, they have such a large distribution that soil, water, temp and lighting are different depending on the species and locality. Like I stated above some are epiphytic, aquatic, some are grown in the jungle, some are grown in the dry desert regions of Peru and Bolivia.

It's too difficult now to figure out the parentage of the hybrids, they've started incorporating many different species. In the past there were only a handful they used, H. aulicum, H. leopoldii H. psittacinum, H. reginae, H. vittatum (etc..). Now we have the Cybister varieties (H. cybister), some trumpets (H. doraniae, H. parodii, H. brasilianum), the newer yellow varities (H. anzaldoi, H. evansiae, H. parodii) and with the coloration of H. mandonii, H. traubii, H. escobaurie, H. lapacense I expect to see a big change in coloring and patterns of flowers very soon! Look at the coloring of H. 'Exotic Star' *neopardinum* H. bukasovii in'Pirouette', H. nelsonii in 'Pretty Lip' and 'Tres Chic', H. pardinum in *Maguires 'Rebel'* and so on!

Dr. Meerow told me recently that 4 new species have been discovered in Bolivia and will be described soon, these new species could unlock a whole NEW type of breeding!

What I'm saying is to follow the advice from your plants! It's a misconception that some don't like 'wet' feet, wait until they start incorporating H. angustifolium *cybister type* into breeding or H. breviflorum *if they haven't already*, these will enjoy being on the wetter side! Some people actually grow these species in trays of water! My H. breviflorum and H. harisonii I make sure to keep consistently moist, right now they seem happy with that but I've been informed that in the future I will need to keep them in a saucer of water to keep them happy.

I feel like I've gone WAY off topic, I contemplated deleting this entire post but ah, oh well ;)

Never feel hesitant about educating those of us (me) who still have so much to learn about these marvelous plants...I was wishing I could steal some pollen off the screen of the Mandonii for my Papilios which are now blooming...

Donna

Donna,

Thanks for the reassurance :) I've seen a few papilio x mandonii hybrids and they're STUNNING! Next time I have blooms on my H. mandonii I'd be more than happy to send you some pollen?!?

Josh

Josh,

I appreciate the offer, but you know the song, "It's Now or Never" my Papilios are all blooming now.. at the same time.. all three of them, (at least I think it's three, the last one I've never seen before)..!

Donna

I think the average lifespan of Hippeastrum bulbs is around
fifteen years.I have a few seedlings which are twenty three years old. They have never offset.They're all pretty,but none are outstanding enough to think about preserving the clone.
I think it would be interesting to see the root systems of some bulbs grown between glass sheets,which would be kept dark,except for inspection,by an outter cover.As in ant farm,only thinner.
I've not yet tried to influence the blooming times of Hippeastrum. I get natural staggered blooming times by where the bulbs are planted in the yard.More shade,later bloom.It matters somewhat if the placement is north, south, east or west.Probably light and temperature of soil come into play. One year a heavy rain and warm temperatures,after an extended cold,dry period caused many of them to scape in January.Root systems vary widly among varieties also.
Del

Josh thanks for the info. I remember the notion that H Papilio may be an epi in Nature and in certain circumstances. When I read this I was excited to get my one and only bulb into hydroton. I grow many orchids-- most phals-- and like most epis, these guys absolutely love hydroton (the phals, I mean). So when I planted the papilio bulb in the hydroton, the plant took off. It sulked for a long time in its traditional pot, even with a near 50% perlite mixture.

Since then I've planted every single bulb of mine in hydroton. As I said before, some still sulk, but they have always sulked. You can't please all bulbs all of the time. ;o)

However, others have planted their paps in orchid mixes and have not had much luck. So there is a lot to be said for doing and giving the plant what it likes-- it always helps to know where to start but those things come with time.

Sometimes I feel like i'm pushing the semi-hydroponic method-- totally not. I just happen to like it for many reasons, including how clean it can be, the fact that my hippie roots reach into the reservoir and the rest of the bulb is kept airy and dry. Since moving to hydroton I have had no rot-- none at all. The only issue I ran into once was letting too much sun hit the clear pots I grow them in and one plant had its roots boiled-- those rotted for sure. But it was less than a month later that they were all replaced.

Another reason I like growing this way is that at the end of the day, I get results. My orchids are blooming and have grown to considerable size and the same can be said with my bulbs as well. I don't have a count of how many bulbs I have in hydroton but I can tell you that every single one that has spent a growing season in this medium is blooming or sending a scape now.

The major detractor for growing this way? Its not as pretty. No pretty pots (which I don't really care about anyway) and you can see the roots growing-- a lot of people think that's weird. I love it because I can gauge the health of my plants. Another factor is plastic. Unless you use glass, you have to use plastic to keep a reservoir. For some they may not care but plastics are petrol based and I personally want to work away from anything petrol based for personal and ecological reasons. The good thing is, I can find glass containers relatively easily and have already made my first glass orchid pot and the orchid is growing just as well.

The other downside is, some may not be willing to pay the money for the hydroton. I think its a bargain, personally, because the useful life of some soils is so short, whereas the useful life of hydroton is indeterminate-- its fired rock clay. It can also be reused and despite what some say, if a virus gets inside, it can be disposed of by baking the medium after sitting in bleach water for a week or so. Many orchid growers claim this virus issue is enough not to use it, but its been proven not to harbor viruses once treated.

And as a father of a 18mo daughter who seems to have super-human strength and curiosity, a hydroton-filled pot is super easy to clean up when tipped over. :o) Of course this is after I pick myself up off the floor.

End of droning...

DR

DR,

I would love to try the Hydroton method, I just am not really sure where to buy it or the pots? I'm assuming online? Can you link me?

Thanks!
(BTW, I love the thought of growing your way!)

Ryan, I am interested in this too. Could you start a new thread and tell us the details? I know where I can get the hydroton but what fertilizer do you use, how often, do you circulate the fluid or just use it in indiviual containers?
Would it breed mosquitos in the summer? (Sorry, just thought of that!)

Josh--

"I would love to try the Hydroton method, I just am not really sure where to buy it or the pots? I'm assuming online? Can you link me?"

Sorry, no link, though I believe you can buy this stuff on Amazon. In fact I think many places sell it, but it becomes expensive to ship, especially with the USPS in its death-throes. Ha! But I can tell you that more and more places here in Colorado are selling it. Honestly, I think mostly because of Denver making pot legal. I personally do not partake in this type of gardening myself, though who am I to say what people can and cannot grow? Anyway, this has helped the hydroponics market here because of the high demand. In fact, once while in a hydro store, one of the fellow patrons asked me how I grow my plants and so I told him and he asked about my results-- when I told him how amazing my blooms were he was utterly confused. He thought I meant pot when really I was speaking on orchids. We all need our hobbies...

So my suggestion to you is to call around. Search Google for a hydroponics supplier and if all those fail, there is Amazon and ebay. Buy a small bag and give it a try to decide if that's where you want to go with growing more plants this way. That's what I did. It started off with orchids and then I heard of the myriad of other plants people grew in this stuff and I gave it a whirl.

As for the pot-- depends on what you want to grow it in. Easiest is plastic. Walmart has gallon-sized square storage containers-- in the isle where they have all their plastic food storage and lunch boxes etc. It's there "Main Stay" brand. Works perfectly for one hippie bulb (or one orchid, as the case may be).

Below is a link on how to set up the rest. The creator of semi-hydroponics is Ray from First Rays Orchids in Pennsylvania, not far from my home town. Follow his instructions, but think "bigger" scale than the smaller containers he uses for orchids.

Noni this goes for you too-- read Ray's page and let me know what questions you may have. His method is excellent but I've made adjustments according to my own growing environment. For instance, my reservoirs are deeper because at 10% relative humidity many times of the year plus windy conditions, the plants will use up a lot of their reservoir.

As for fertilizer, I use Grow More's Phal fertilizer. I believe its something like 20-16-20 plus the micro nutrients-- I deliver the water via a hand-pumped pressurized tank that holds two gallons. I put at most a teaspoon of fertilizer in for those two gallons-- a weak solution but its given with every watering.

I should mention though that the orchids get watered rarely. Each orchid goes through a freshwater flushing every few weeks. Hippies feed a bit heavier and get a flushing every few weeks and then some-- they don't seem to be bothered much by biproduct build up though during their growing season outside, they get flushed all the time by storms or by the garden hose. Orchids are much more sensitive to any mineral or fertilizer buildup. In general, if I see "crystals" forming on the hydroton, that pot gets flushed.

Noni I never share water between plants, especially with the real possibility of viruses.

I'm by no means an expert on this so please don't take anything I have to say to heart-- the only thing you can do is read up on the subject and figure it out for your conditions. With that said, I love this growing method and plan to keep on with it.

ooooooooooooooook Gardenweb is totally lame and won't let me post the link.... so here it is in plain text, though I'm sure somewhere someone in Gardenweb is clenched and angry. Gawd this place has declined....

ok it won't even let me post it as plain text....

Isn't a forum supposed to be a place to learn and share and teach?

If anyone is interested in this further, I urge you to go to the Landspro forum.

Very disappointed,

DR

Thank you every one.
The gist of the story is that I now have a collection of hippiestrum bulbs which have a genetic mixture of many species originating from various lands.
Each bulb behaves according to genetic set up it has inherited.
Survival of the fittest is the law of nature; I should concentrate in their propagation / breeding keeping that in mind. Eventually I will have only those who can survive our Sun, Heat and rainy season, outdoors in garden.
In last couple of decades I have wasted lot of money on exotic plants which did not survive in our harsh climatic condition.
Arif

Thank you every one.
The gist of the story is that I now have a collection of hippiestrum bulbs which have a genetic mixture of many species originating from various lands.
Each bulb behaves according to genetic set up it has inherited.
Survival of the fittest is the law of nature; I should concentrate in their propagation / breeding keeping that in mind. Eventually I will have only those who can survive our Sun, Heat and rainy season, outdoors in garden.
In last couple of decades I have wasted lot of money on exotic plants which did not survive in our harsh climatic condition.
Arif