Well, having seen this photo I wanted to share my favourite Liriodendron tulipifera too. Unfortunately I can't stand beside it because I am taking the pictures and I would have to climb the railings to do it anyway. But this tree is in a square near me and dates from when the houses were built ie about 220 years old. As you can tell, the crown has been reduced a bit but it is still a fabulous neighbour to have. All pictures are of the same tree except the two last ones, the plane and the beech, which are similar in age. For scale the bench is about 8 feet long and the railing is chest hich. Here is a link that might be useful: My favourite L. T.

Marty You're like me .I always thought the binominal naming system was to be "exact" A single name for every living thing in a single language. Eliminating confusion . I thought by reading the latin name I could eliminate all other specie let alone closely related genera by merely knowing a single language "Latin" i still think this was the original purpose but personality and politics got in the way. Wouldn't it be wonderful if all names were discriptive and Latin not latinized?? Oh well,my two cents. gary

Hi all, This whole thread has definitely triggered food for thought. Paul, you have raised excellent points and observations on many levels - much appreciated, as has Pinkbroms and all other contributors. Yes, the principle of precedence has swayed my opinion, even though that principle has had to be ignored with certain reclassification of nomenclature after further investigations and prescribed descriptive codes of overall genera, and specific species. As you say Paul, it is a different matter for named hybrids, and it makes sense to me that the first hybrid name should still apply, regardless of its parents. Your reference to "red herrings" is pertinent, and we all know how many red herrings are out there - multiplying at an alarming rate, and perpetuated by some sellers either out of ignorance, or from the want of a quick buck by giving a plant a more desirable label. I have even seen the variegated form of this plant sold as V. Slow Lane! As no-one has been able to show us a plant with any obvious characteristics influenced by a supposed bituminosa parent - with broad leaves, dark leaf tips, and greenish floral bracts and pale flower petals (with lots of "goo"), the questionable parentage quoted for Highway Beauty is still an issue for me. RoRo was named and registered before Highway and Highway Beauty. RoRo's quoted parents are less questionable then Highway/Highway Beauty. No-one can tell the difference between the variegated and albomarginated forms of the named RoRo and Highway Beauty, and their inflorescences appear identical, whether they are single-spiked or branched - and the same of their off-spring, variegated or not. Information is lacking as to who actually hybridised this plant, or who grew the original sport. Therefore, I agree with Peter Waters that all the variegated and albomarginated forms should be referred to as RoRo, in Australia as well as N.Z. - that is, as Paul suggested, until someone partakes in a comprehensive study which proves otherwise. I am unsure what to call my non-variegated forms - if the rule of precedence is applied, then I suppose it should be called Highway, but not if it is a non-variegated offset of RoRo? (dare I suggest RoRo Novar?) I will still keep that big question mark on my labels! Cheers, Kerry

Hi again everyone, Pinkbroms, on your last posting - well put, I couldn't agree more. Lisa, you asked the question "what do you say if you want to tell someone "I grow over 500 different _______ of bromeliads"? At that time I suggested that "varieties" in the common sense would be the most easily understood by the layman. Can you think of a better term, Paul?" (ie a better term if we ditched the term "variety") It's a good question isn't it? All very nice for me to rabbit-on theorising, but this is where the rubber really hits the road. Well, the reason I've taken so long to reply is that I've been puzzling over it all day, trying different terms to fill the space and not being able to come up with something that works, until it finally occurred to me that the situation that I was trying to describe (how many broms someone might have) is actually something that is quite complex when you get into it, as shown in this discussion, and probably different in every single case. So, what I finally realised I was tring to do was to describe a complex, variable situation accurately with a single word that everybody would understand. When I put it like that, I came to the conclusion that try as I might, it just ain't gonna happen. The only way I can think of to deal with a situation like that is to just use simple everyday words that only have a single meaning and completely ditch the terminology, including ditching everyday words that are also used as terminology, then take the time to explain it simply to the level of detail that suits the situation. Something like "Hey, I have about 2,500 brom plants in my front yard. There are 30 different ones, and all the rest are Aechmea gamosepala" .... person 2: "Wow, what do you do with all of those Eekmee whats-its?" ... me: "Not much, but the deer like pulling their flowers out and it takes their attention away from the other ones" ....person 2: "Cool, what about the other 30?" ....me: "Well, there are a few different Vrieseas with different leaf patterns, and the rest are mainly Neoregelias, some of them are quite different, but most of them look pretty similar with only small differences between them" ....person 2: "Hey, those Vrieseas sound interesting - what are they like?" ....me: "Well, three of them are different clones of Vriesea fosteriana, which means that they have lots of fine purple squiggly lines on the leaves and these are arranged in broader bands, but the different ones have big differences in the amounts of white between the bands and they stay like that in the pups they produce ......." And so on, and on, for as long as needed. I did sneak one bit of terminology in there - "clones" - but I needed to immediately explain exactly what I meant by it in this context, in simple everyday words. I really can't think of any other way to deal with this sort of situation. Having gone through this has made me realise that with a lot of these sorts of things, maybe we just get so involved and interested and close to it that we start to take it for granted and forget just how complex it all really is. Then, when we try to describe it simply with a single word, it just does not work. What do you think? Please pull apart my little explanation - I'd love to hear any other thoughts on the matter. Hope this helps. Cheers, Paul