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misssherryg

Mystery Cocoon

MissSherry
15 years ago

Yesterday, when I walked past a young sweetbay/magnolia virginiana that I walk past all the time, I noticed some leaves rolled up together. I pulled the little branch down and found a cocoon inside! Isn't it fun to be surprised like that? I'm trying to figure out what type of cocoon it is. It looks a lot like a polyphemus cocoon, because it has a lot of gold in the silk, but it could be a luna moth, since it's approximately the same size and shape, just not as brown. There are many oak and sweetgum trees (hosts for polyphemus and luna cats) near this sweetbay, so the cat could have easily crawled onto the sweetbay to spin its cocoon.

I looked up the pictures of silk moth cocoons in my Moths of Eastern North America and was surprised to see that the cocoon of sweetbay silkmoths/callosamia securifera, look similar to the other two mentioned. The only type of callosamia moth cocoon I've seen is a promethea silkmoth/c. promethea, which hang from a little attachment to the tree - the picture of the c. securifera was wrapped in leaves just like my cocoon. So maybe the cocoon is on the host tree - imagine that! :0

Last year, late in the year as I remember, a tattered female callosamia - at least I think she was a female - hung out under the light on my garage, where I see so many moths. I couldn't tell if she was a c. securifera female or c. angulifera/tuliptree silkmoth - they look nearly identical. I'm wondering if this cocoon may contain one of her offspring. Anyway, here's a picture of the cocoon, at least as much of it as I could photograph -

{{gwi:453501}}
And here's a picture of last year's mystery female callosamia -

{{gwi:453502}}
I'm going to monitor this cocoon, watching for the adult to emerge. If it still hasn't emerged by early March after I've moved my cages with cocoons and chrysalids from my unheated guest room to the front porch, I'll cut off the little branch and put it in with my cocoons. I'd do it now, but I'm afraid to change the climate it's been in, which, although the change would be small, might be enough to make the adult emerge early, which I don't want. Whatever it is, if it's a female, I'd like to get some eggs to raise myself.

I love waiting for butterflies and moths to emerge!

Sherry

Comments (27)

  • butterflymomok
    15 years ago

    How exciting to have a mystery cocoon! Keep us posted.

    Sandy

  • murray_2008
    15 years ago

    Wow Sherry, I can't help feeling a little jealous since we don't have any of those moths out here. But it doesn't look anything like the promethea moth cocoons I used to go out looking for when I was a kid. They were long and comparatively narrower and hung attached to the stem with only one leaf wrapped around the pupa. It does though look a lot like the poly moth cocoons. Let us know if you find out what it is. Murray

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  • MissSherry
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    I'll keep y'all posted.
    I know it's not a promethea moth/callosamia promethea, Murray, but it might be a sweetbay moth/c. securifera. I agree, though, that it's most likely a polyphemus moth.
    Sherry

  • saturniidaebreeder
    15 years ago

    Looks somewhat like a Cecropia (Hyalaphora Cecropia) cocoon to me, or what you said... hmm
    SB

  • cezs12
    15 years ago

    Wow, a very pretty butterfly.. Keeping a mystery cocoon and waiting for it to sprout looks very fun. Hope there will be a mystery cocoon in our garden.

    Here is a link that might be useful: landscapers utah

  • animalsrbestfriends_gmail_com
    15 years ago

    I was just wondering if anyone would be able to tell me what to do if my moth hatches in early april and not in may?

    I think it might still be too cold for him here is the type of moth i have it just hatched this morning
    ----------------->Polyphemus Moth
    please i need help on what to do with this little guy please e-mail me at animalsrbestfriends@gmail.com

  • jmcat
    15 years ago

    Kaiti- the answer to that question depends on where you live. If you post that information, someone might be able to help you.
    -Jmcat

  • KC Clark - Zone 2012-6a OH
    15 years ago

    I know someone who keeps giant silkmoths alive for extended periods by keeping them in envelopes in the frig. You could try that until it gets warm enough to let it go.

    My first polyphemus came out in December. Taught me a quick lesson that multi-brood lepidoptera pupas need to experience a climate at least similar to the outside world.

    KC

  • MissSherry
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    The moth emerged around ?11:00 this morning. I had previously cut off the little branch with the cocoon on it and put it in a cage with a lot of cocoons - I moved her to a cage with just two luna cocoons where she could have more privacy. She's a sweetbay silkmoth/Callosamia securifera, so this shows this type of silkmoth does indeed make a cocoon that looks like a polyphemus cocoon.
    Here's one picture -
    {{gwi:450518}}
    And here's a side view that shows her enormous abdomen - 'must be loaded with eggs!
    {{gwi:453503}}
    I read in my moth book that these moths call and mate in the day, and just as I was reading this, I looked out the window and saw two moths flying around the cage. I went outside, unzipped the cage, and one of the males flew in, but he was flying around blindly, like he didn't know where he was, and he flew out of the cage into a corner of the porch. He looked to be stuck and really seemed disoriented. So I picked him up by the wings, put him in the cage with the female, zipped it up, and in no time they were coupled. They're still joined, and I would make a picture of them, but I don't want to stick a camera in their face and maybe cause them to disengage prematurely. I made a short video of the two males flying around the cage, although you only get a brief glimpse of one of them -
    if you want to see it, just click on the picture.

    {{gwi:453504}}

    I'm really busy now, but I'm going to put her in a paper bag briefly and see if she'll lay me a few eggs. I don't want too many, since I'm busy with 15 and still findin' 'em giant swallowtails/Papilio cresphontes, a good many red admirals/Vanessa atalanta, and I'm preparing for my zebra swallowtail/Eurytides marcellus eggs to hatch - 'can't wait for that!
    Sherry

  • butterflymomok
    15 years ago

    Beautiful moth! I watched the clip and that was incredible to see the two males flying around. I loved all the bird sounds in the background. You can tell it is springtime in your neck of the woods.

  • KC Clark - Zone 2012-6a OH
    15 years ago

    That is great. Make sure to buy a lottery ticket cuz your day is going well.

    Sure wish I'd find a mystery cocoon that turned into a female Tulip Tree moth.

    KC

  • MissSherry
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Thanks, Sandy! Spring is indeed wonderful here in the country/woods!
    And I wish you could find a female tulip tree moth, too, KC!
    My couple disengaged about an hour ago. I put the female in a paper bag, but she didn't lay any eggs. I've been reading as much as I can find about this species, but can't find much. On the Bill Oehlke site, he has a page about tulip tree silkmoths - he says that they lay their eggs at dusk "the following evening" and if my closely related sweetbay moths behave the same, I would assume he means tomorrow at dusk. I put her back in the cage with the male, unzipped the door, and the last time I looked, they were both still in the cage. If she leaves and lays all her eggs on trees outside, that'll be okay, too.
    Stephen in NJ posts off and on, and he's asked several times about sweetbay/Magnolia virginiana as a host plant. I told him that I'd never found a caterpillar on sweetbay, which is true, but since there are apparently so many of them here, and since I even found a cocoon on a sweetbay tree, they're eating sweetbay leaves somewhere. The trees get tall here like oaks, sometimes about ?60'-70' or more - maybe C. securifera lays their eggs at the upper levels of the trees.
    Sherry

  • autumnfairy
    15 years ago

    What a beautiful moth!!! Where did you get those butterfly houses? Those are the best I have seen.

  • MissSherry
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    I ordered my first ones from Educational Science, which, as I remember, is located outside of Houston. I found them for a better price at LLLReptile in the PNW, but they don't carry the same Apogee brand they used to - now they're carrying some very expensive ones. You can buy them online from PetSmart, sometimes in the store, but their prices are usually higher. I'm going to have to Google Apogee Reptariums and compare prices if I buy another one, which I probably will.
    Both moths left the cage last night, which I had left open at the top right - she left me 18 little gifts on the top right bar of the cage -
    {{gwi:453505}}
    I've been working outside most of the day, but I spent a good bit of time cleaning cages and preparing one for the sweetbay moth caterpillars. I've read that they have 3 generations in my area, so, assuming all goes well, they should emerge in the summer and not overwinter.
    Sherry

  • autumnfairy
    15 years ago

    YAY! Congrats on the new babies! I myself am just getting started. I had my first monarch release a few weeks ago. Now I have three very small cats. The monarchs are going crazy at my house. I must have about 50 eggs on my plants. I love the look of your houses. I will have to check something like that out. Right now I am using a fishtank with a screen on top. I electrical tied some branches on the top for them. I am keeping it indoors because I am worried about the tank getting too much humidity outside.

  • cecropia
    15 years ago

    Sherry,you are the lepidoptera queen!It's so cool that the giant silkmoths are thriving in your area...with a little help from you,of course.
    Incidentally,my book lists a number of reported alternate hosts for securifera: tulip tree,sassafras,sweet gum,southern magnolia,camphor tree and loblolly bay.

  • MissSherry
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Thanks, Dan, that's good to know. Tulip tree, sassafras, sweet gum, and southern magnolia are plentiful in my woods, so I shouldn't lack for food to feed the cats.
    Sherry

  • kwoods
    15 years ago

    Very glad to see you are doing so well!

    Wonderful pictures and video.

  • MissSherry
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Thanks, Kenneth!
    Hearing from you reminds me of those beautiful luna moths! All that I've released so far this year have been males, but I've still got two more cocoons, so that's two more chances for luna eggs.
    Sherry

  • MissSherry
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    The eggs finally hatched this morning, and I've put lots of very tender sweetbay leaves in their container. They're SO much bigger than the zebra swallowtail hatchlings were!
    Sherry

  • MissSherry
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Here's some of the babies in their first picture - they're groupies. :)
    {{gwi:453506}}
    Sherry

  • MissSherry
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    They're eating and growing good and starting to get that promethea/cecropia moth cat look -
    {{gwi:453507}}
    Sherry

  • rhizo_1 (North AL) zone 7
    15 years ago

    Your images are incredible! Look at those little shed skins in that last picture.

  • MissSherry
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Thanks!
    Sherry

  • todancewithwolves
    15 years ago

    WOW! They are incredible! The eggs look like miniature chicken eggs. The cat's change so drastically and are really beautiful.

  • bernergrrl
    15 years ago

    Love the pictures and the all of info you share!

  • MissSherry
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    I'm fixing to go out and get more sweetbay leaves for the still eating sweetbay cats [I know that "fixing" isn't the proper word here, but sometimes I like to type like I talk :)] even though they look big enough to pupate to me!
    Here's one of them -
    {{gwi:453508}}
    Sherry

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