I like both butterflies and moths , But if I were to choose I would say butterflies because there so indifferent. But then again I like moths. I like zebra swallowtails and for moths the rothschildia aurota, there such a lovely moth and I would love to raise some .

1-1
any more votes?
S.B.

Moths are scorned by the majority of people, negative references show up even in the Sunday comics.

Of course here on the butterfly gardening forum, moths get a friendlier reception.

I was amused for about a year by the local newspaper's TV listings. A new show's title was abbreviated as "How I Met Your Moth". I couldn't imagine moths being so popular as to rate their own TV series. Now the listings have gone to two lines and the word "Mother" is completed.

I prefer moths because around here, there are many more moths than butterflies, and they are much easier to approach for closer study.

As for the poll, I can't really pick one over the other since I have studied the life histories of and reared both for over 40 years. Have traveled to other countries specifically to study one or the other on some trips or both together on other trips. Besides the arctic/alpine, desert and tropical habitats that I specialize in, my Lepidopteran specialties that I am the best known for are in three families of butterflies and four families of moths. So I have to pick both.

The bright and showy colors of butterflies is what attracts most newbies to study Lepidoptera. But being more primitive, moths in general are much less demanding than butterflies and so the easier of the two to study and rear, and would be a better starting place for newbies. But only a very small percentage of moths dislay the beautiful bright colors and patterns that butterflies do and most of them are nocturnal fliers - hence they get over-looked or ignored by most folks. With moths few hobby lepidopterists get past the Saturniidae, or maybe also venture into the Sphingidae and Arctiidae, but that's generally as far as they go. But 99% of the moths are of the small stinky brown or stinky gray variety and so are ignored (even though some of them have among the most interesting life histories of all lepidoptera). Since there are thousands of species of moths even right here in NA that still have not been identified, placed, assigned a taxonomic name and catalogued there is where the field is wide open for the budding new lepidopterists.

L.

My wife would say butterflies without hesitation. To me, it is a tie.

KC

I love both, but I'll vote for butterflies, because, other than scarlet bodied wasp moths and hummingbird clearwings, I have to get up at night to see them in flight! :) I like my sleep! :)
Sherry

2-3-2,
I see what you mean, most people hear moth and think of a small brown ugly clothes moth or whatever. I can see that location plays a major role in oppinion... I like moths better becasue there are no butterflies that really really catch your eye and are colored so vibrantly here, but there are some moths... like Lunas and Polyphemus. I have to admit that if I lived in a tropical region... say in Borneo... or wherever, I'd probably say butterflies because one, there are so many, and most of them are soo beautifully colored, and two, the moths basically only come out at night (majority of species... pretty much all of them), and if I'm not someone who likes to stay up late then moths would not be conveniant for me. I find the butterfly larvae much easier to rear as well... Saturniidae larvae (at least most) eat soo much.
Like Ladobe said, only a small fraction of moths are beautiful and have such colors, so really unless you live somewhere where they have such butterflies it would go to moths. I have to say though that the really nice colorful and extraordinary moths would beat butterflies (Most of the time), just because of the size, the colors and patterns, and the shape of the body. Argema Mittrei would beat most butterflies from my point of view...
More votes if you'd like!
S.B.

SB,

When you do them all like I do, sleep is not in your vocabulary on Lep trips. Butterflies, the diurnal moths and Coleoptera and plants all day... blacklighting for the nocturnal moths and Coleoptera and on butterfly/moth larvae hunts all night.

Having reared A. mittrei I tend to agree it is a pretty spectacular species. But, there are many that are even more spectacular even if they are much smaller.

{{gwi:450899}}

I would probably have to vote for the butterflies, also. As was mentioned, though, I'm biased because of not having that many pretty moths in my area (at least that I've seen).
-Jmcat

I have to say that some of the moths I saw in Laos were pretty colorful and incredible. Here's a link to some of my photos:

Here is a link that might be useful: Sandy's pbase galleries

Ladobe,
You got it right... got my point out there. For me, like you, and many others, its worth staying up all night. I dont even look at the clock... Its basically what you like, if youre ok with just seeing the butetrflies for the most part... and many are because butterflies are none less extraordinary, then the night time thing isnt for you. If you really love the moths and have passion for them, any time will work... Some just can't stay up late either. Some its just a matter of choice. All of us love both some more than others...I dont mind the staying up late one bit and the rewards you get are spectacular!
Also... you are LUCKY!! I've always wanted to rear Argemia Mittrei and a few Copaxa sepcies. Another passion I have is Rothschildia, love them. Theres so many more species I love and want to rear, and many many more that would beat most butterflies... but I think you get the point. :)
How often do you go on trips for youre studys? i'm very interested in this field and would love to go places to study Saturniidae and/or and Lepidoptera that i can find. Do you live in a tropical region where more species can be found?
S.B.

I can't really pick one over another because for me it is like the old "oranges and apples" thing. I grew up where I could spend lots of time hunting around the woods for both and they all excited me. But I must say the large saturnidae made my heart thump wildly whenever I uncovered one. But they were not as easily found and were such a shock after thinking moths were just those guys that flew around the light on the back porch on warm summer nights on Long Island where I grew up.

So I would have to say both unless you are going to pit one type against another like a skipper against a Luna moth. Murray

There was a pretty moth on my kitchen window screen the other night.

Butterflies are my favorite, for the reasons already mentioned above including the availability of butterflies here. Sulphurs were out and about yesterday, after a few days of warm weather. They found the camellias with prominent stamens good nectar sources.
{{gwi:450901}}

Nell

Moths! especially Sphinx.

Great photo's, Sandy. What is the gold and clear bug (second picture)? It looks like a species of beetle.

Larry, gorgeous photo. I will never forget the picture you posted of the white sheet (with the back light) covered in moths.
That really sparked my interest with nocturnal bugs. Sometimes I go out into my garden at night with a flashlight to take a peek around. Who cares what my neighbors think *lol*

Found this guy in the garage. Wing span of 2-1/4". Not very colorful but cool looking none-the-less.
{{gwi:443942}}

I love the butterflies better, however, there are many pretty moths too.

Edna,

That is an incredible moth picture. Have you tried to ID it?

I'm glad you enjoyed the photos, Edna. The little bug is indeed some type of beetle. They call it gold nugget bug in Laos. It appears to be in the same family as the orange beetle with the black dots. Both have the transparent skirt. I haven't located it on any of the web sites. But, I keep finding more and more sites, especially on pbase and I'm sure I'll ID it some day.

If you type in butterflies/moths and do a search, you will find bugs from all over the world. There is one gallery for Sweden that has some terrific bugs.

Sandy

I have one more thing that I will have to add to my earlier post. I do really like the butterflies, but I also would love to try raising some of the big moths. I think that desire is increased slightly by seeing pictures of various Saturniids on here and on other sites, but knowing that most aren't native to CO.
-Jmcat

That moth is probably Zale minerea, a noctuid moth. My vote is for moths. I may see 35 to 50 species of butterflies in my garden over the growing year, but I can find hundreds of species of moths in the same place over the same time. Most are invited in with lights. As for dull, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Most butterflies can be seen at bait or flowers, but as for moths, you need to be a pretty good detective to see some. I love my Noctuidae.

Edna,
While the number of species in NA pales in comparison to a tropical night sheet setup, you might be surprised even with the dozens to hundreds of different species you'll get here in NA (it's thousands in the tropics). But night lighting for moths really grows on you fast, so don't dive in unless you're willing to give up some sleep. Different families fly at different times of the night and with so many different kinds or moths and other insects coming in it's hard not to make it an "all nighter". Bait traps are also a lot of fun just to get a sampling of what is out at a particular time of the season if you don' want to stay up all night, but many are killed in them so I don't recommend them for use all of the time. Setting an alarm also works for quick checks of the sheets every hour or two all night if you need your sleep. Naturally unwanted guests also come in to the sheets, so you do have to stay on your toes (insect, reptile, and mammal).

Sandy,
My books are all in storage, but if you are referring to pictures #2 & #3 on the top line of your link. they look like they might be Clavata Tortoise beetles (Cassidinae) if that helps you any. Can't remember which genus as there are several in that subbfamily, but species name would be "clavata".

Jmcat,
Whao pard! Just the opposite... a lot of Saturnids and other big and/or showy moths (Sphingids, Arctids) do in fact reside in CO naturally. In fact the type localities of some of the Satuniidae are in CO (IOW, the place first discovered and catalogued from). You could easily spend years finding and rearing all of them. I've traveled to, collected and reared many species of livestock from CO over the years many times. You also have a gent who is one of the most knowledgeable worldwide in the Saturniidae living right there in Lakewood. He and his wife Karen don't do the bugs anymore since he finished his book on their larval foodplants (I supplied some data for his book). But Steve would know every possible collecting site in the state. I stayed in his home with his family and collected with Steve many years ago.

Larry

Jmcat,
Like Ladobe said... there are many species of moth in CO! One day drive to a forest nearby if there is and camp out and put up a light, I'm sure you'll find many, many, moths. Can't remember off the top of my head of species there but when I think of them I'll name some to be aware of.
S.B.

Butterflies. I'm too tired after a long day of dealing with my kids and their needs to concentrate on anything but going to bed and SLEEPING!!!!! Butterflutter

Larry,

Thanks for the info on the beetles. I looked them up and found that there are quite a few different ones. I also learned that they occur in the US, but not in Oklahoma.

Sandy

You know, you guys are going to get me addicted to moths also, soon! I somehow knew that when I posted that, someone would come and post, telling me that I was wrong about there being few moths in CO! I'm going to have to try putting up a light sometime.
-Jmcat

Sandy,
Glad to help. Not too hard to ID from memory as this group of beetles are common and pretty much found worldwide. Tropical South America and temperate Euroasia are their strongholds though.

Jmcat,
Yeah, you're had. Just from the three most often pursued moth families in NA... in CO: Saturniidae, roughly a dozen and a half species; Sphingidae, approximately three dozen; and Arctiidae five or six dozen. Time to get cracking with a MV and blacklight. LOL

Larry, what is out there around Vallejo, CA? A few years ago I reared over two hundred Antherea polyphemus moth cats and when I placed the emerging females outside they never got a single suitor. And even seemed unable to get the males that emerged to hook up with there sisters. They are supposed to be native to the area but maybe that was a long time ago.

I do get to rear a few of the underwings and the Cerisy's shinx moths both on my potted willows. But I don't have the room for those sphingidae that use other trees.

I thought about black lights but I am not sure if I could handle anything too costly at this time until I recover from my doggie's surgeries which I am still paying off. Murray

Murray,

Had a buddy who lived in Vallejo, but he was not into bugs. You do have some habitat around there for polyphemus though. I don 't remember ever night collecting in Marin Co during the few years I lived in the SFBA though. But I did north, south and east of there mostly in unsettled areas, and did get some giant silkmoths (mostly H. euryalus). Back then my targeted family was the Arctiidae though so I didn't specifically try for them. Comes down to timing I guess as far as if there is a wild population in your area. The "window" for mating is not open for very long when a new brood flies IOW, might be only a couple of hours a night and only for a couple of nights until all the females are mated and stop "calling" for males.

Only night lighting will tell you for sure what is currently in your area. And you'd have to do it often all through the season since you don't know exactly when those small windows are open for flights of each species. Once you have enough experience locally you will know about when to target each of those species from brood to brood and year to year, and even what time of night they normally fly.

Blacklights designed for night collecting are not real expensive - about $60-$100 depending on if 12VDC, 120VAC or dual voltage. If only for in the wilds, get the 12VDC and run it off your vehicle battery. If you'll always be where you can plug it in the 120VAC, or dual if you want to do both. MV can set you back hundreds plus the cost of a portable generator if you want to use it in the wilds. Both have their use as different specie are attracted to different light spectrums so will come to one and not the other. The BL is also a fairly close range light while the MV (depending on wattage) can pull them in from a mile or more away in open country.

Murray, I didn't know we had Antheraea polyphemus around here or the Cerisy's sphinx. Potted willows you say? What type of willow?

Ladobe, I will try your suggestions regarding back lighting. I can hardly wait!

I don't dislike moths, but yes, I prefer butterflies as I can get a good look at them playing around during the day. :)

I prefer butterflies but moths are beautiful, too.
Anna

Larry- Do you happen to know the title of that book you mentioned off of the top of your head? I'm thinking I would be interested in getting it out from our library (if they have it).
Thanks,
-Jmcat

I assume you mean the book by my old cohort Steve who lives in the Denver area.

Foodplants of World Saturniidae, Stephen E. Stone.
It was published in 1991 as a memoir of The Lepidopterists' Society. The data was complied by Steve from the field efforts of the very best researchers worldwide for this group of moths. It is a great aide for anybody who wants to look for wild livestock or rear Saturniidae. I can get you the LCC/ISBN for the book if you need them.

Thinking about this sure brings back some fond memories of field work with Steve. So you are stuck with a story I am afraid. Steve is wheelchair bound but it doesn't slow him down much when there's bugs to do. I well remember a trip with him and Dr. Paul Opler up to Beaver Creek, CO one Saturday with some newly emerged female H. nuttalli I had flew in from Utah with to prove to Paul my hypotheses that this group of Hemileuca's pheromones were so close to each other that they would call in other species besides H. nuttalli. I called in lots of three species with the female H. nuttalli that day - nuttalli, hera and eglanterina to prove my hypotheses. Then in the very wee hours the next morning Steve, Andy Warren (now Dr.) and I drove the 9+ hours to the CO/NM border to look for H. magnifica at its type locality near Mesita, CO. I estabished a new and very unusual LFP record for H. magnifica (Eriogonum effusum), both a county record and new LFP record for Euphilotes rita also that day in Costillo Co (also on E. effusum), and a county record for H. magnifica in Taos Co, NM. Steve followed Andy and I in a 4X4 truck as we walked the washes and plateaus through the head high Indian sagebrush looking for livestock (the sand was too deep for his wheelchair). He'd simple hit the horn to get our attention when he spotted something. We made a stop on the way back at Plum Creek, CO (TL of H. diana) for what turned out to be a very near a 24 hour day start to finish. Karen about skinned my hide for keeping Steve out so long (I didn't tell her it was his idea). Anyway, it was a very fruitful Saturniidae weekend for all of use, proved some theories and established some new records. I flew back to UT early the next morning (back to the real day job).

I'm listed in the personal correspondents appendex in Steve's book along with some of the other gents from around the world I worked on Saturniidae projects with back during those years. Unfortunately some of the best have passed on, but their lifes work is still with us and their known LFP's at the time recorded in Steve's book.