Can you post some pictures?

mshaffer, I am not sure how to directly attatch pictures with messages, but I have a picture on my webshots album under Greenville Palms, Image 0116 of one of the transplants during the summer.

Here is a link that might be useful: Greenville Palms

Dwayne, I LOVED your pictures and believe me I don't normally post to say how much I love someones PICS.

I am in near Myrtle Beach SC and I would love to have some seeds of any palms that gre well from seeds for you or anything else you can spare that is tropical looking.

I currrently only have 3 types of bamboo but I can give you some if you want. I have b. multiplex goldengoddess b. multiplex silverstripe and an unknows runner. I have some Musa Basjoos not alot Im just getting started and have a small budget.

I have grown some washingtonia robusta from seeds they are about 8 inches tall so far.

I am looking to get a jungle look in my back yard like you have done.

Joefalco, Thank you for the compliment. I am glad to here you enjoy the tropical look also. By being near the coast, your choices for exotics is greatly expanded.
I would be happy to share some seed/plants with you. Is there any type of plant you're looking for in paticular? If not I could just send you a selection of some things I think would do ok down there. What are your growing conditions like (Sun/Shade, Soil, Water)?

{{gwi:427504}}

Bamboomary, Thanks for the advice. You actually answered one of my questions before I asked It! Last spring the plants did have alot of shoots that rotted off, I may have overfertilized.Thanks again.
Mshaffer, Thank you for posting my pic.

Around here, moso will typically gain 0.5" to 1" in culm diameter and and about have about a 1/3 increase in height each year, barring drought. A culm transplant dug from a grove will be producing shoots equal in diameter to the transplanted culm by the 2nd or 3rd year following transplant provided that it was properly handled during the transplant. Moso has a reputation for being tricky to transplant. If the delicate culm/rhizome connection is damaged during transplant, then it may take much longer for the plant to recover or it may never produce viable shoots. Unlike other Phyllostachys and like tropical clumping bamboos, Moso stores its energy and nutrients in its culms. So when shooting it has to be able to rapidly translocate energy from the existing culms through the narrow neck connecting the culm to the rhizome, then through the rhizome and into the new shoot. If the culm/rhizome connection was damaged during transplant, then it will be unable to move energy rapidly enough through the damaged connection feed the rapidly growing shoot and it will abort, often while still underground. It is easy to damage this connection while trying to manhandle a heavy plant out of the ground, into and out of a vehicle, and back into the ground.

Examples of typical moso growth rates in upstate SC:

A grove (Anderson clone) started in 1990 by several 1" to 2" diameter field transplants is now 5.5" diam/65' high.

A grove (Panda Products seedling) started in 1996 by a single 1" dia field transplant is now 5" diam/50' high.

Two groves (Tradewinds Nursery Silverspripe and Goldstripe) started in 2000 by single potted 2' high seedlings are now 2"dia/22' high.

A grove (4' high potted seedling) started in 2004 and maintained as a root pruned clump is now 1" dia/12' high.

The reward at the end of the tunnel!
{{gwi:399945}}

You can establish palms, gingers, and other plants in the understory after the groves get established.

{{gwi:427507}}

{{gwi:427509}}

{{gwi:427511}}

Mike, Thanks for the great advice and pictures. You truely have beautiful specimens of moso and an exceptional garden. I have been busy propagating plants like Variegated Dianella lily, Iris Japonica, Fatsia, and Holly Fern to underplant with, to hopefully give the eventual grove an evergreen jungle feel. You actually inspired me to plant Windmills within the moso from your pictures, and I am planning to underplant with Sabal louisiana after they put up their spring growth.
Also, can you tell me if it is safe to plant potted seedling moso (2ft) now or should I wait until spring and should I plant them in a shady spot to start? Thanks.

I live in Anderson, SC a little farther south than mike i believe. I just bought this piece of property a little over an acre that has a great little branch running through the middle of it. I planted 5 good specimens of moso on one side this year after the bamboo dig in march that they have at silverbrook in anderson. One of them was almost 3 inches in diameter and was a new growth from last year i believe so i should see some good growth off of it since it had lots of buds. It took 4 people to get the root ball onto my toyota ...lol....I would really love to get rid of some smaller trees toward the back of my property and have a nice grove there but there are some huge trees that could block them from total sun. Mike...how many feet in square footage do you think it would take to grow moso to their max size without them being to crowded? I was at silverbrook the other day and the max size there is 5 inches thick at breast height....

Evan Meece

I meant to ask you dwayne if that grove in spartanburg is off of highway 29? I remember seeing some big bamboo grove off the side of the road up there that looked to be mature moso...

-Evan

Mike you are making me very envious of your Moso, Now I REALLY want Moso now. The dwar palms under the moso, do they re-seed themselves and spread or have you planted them all individually.

I see some dwarf palmettos growing wild around here, but when I was in Charleston they seemed to grow like weeds relly a cool site.

Have you grown dwarf palmettos from seed?

Evan, The grove I got my bamboo from was located in front of the school for the deaf and blind. The last time I went by to check on it, it had all been cut down. I am not sure why it was cut down, but It was a very large and established grove that surrounded an old abandoned home that had fallen in.

Dwayne, I would wait until Mar-Apr before planting the potted moso. Ideally they should planted in a spot that gets part sun.

Evan, since moso stores most of its nutrients within their culms, they can form large diameter culms in a very small sized grove. I've seen pictures of small sized groves close to buildings in Japan where the entire grove consisted of a total of 6 to 10 4"+ diameter culms. One of my two mature sized groves is 35' x 20', the other is planted in a 25' circle.

Joe, those palms in my moso grove are a mix of Trachycarpus fortunei and Sabal minor. The large palms in the pictures were all planted, but the Trachycarpus and minors have been self-seeding themselves around ever since. I haven't grown any Sabal minor from seed since they are doing fine self-seedling on their own. None of the SC native palms are native up here in the mountains of SC where I am located.

Have you ever saw 7+ inch culms from moso in person? The biggest i could find at the silverbrook cemetery grove was a little over 5 inches.....and i looked them all over really good. I drove by the old fant estate which appeared to have some very big culms but i was afraid to stop because i wasnt sure if anyone lived there or not. I would love to be able to check it out though. I would like to come see your place mike sometime and check out how you got your moso set up....maybe you could give me some pointers on how i could get mine to grow big.

thanks,
Evan

Evan, the largest moso culm I've seen was a 6.3" dbh culm in the Fant house grove (on the left side of the house). You're welcome to come by to visit my garden.

This is a list of plants growing in the understory of my mature moso groves:
Group 1 (grows fine throughout the grove)
Trachycarpus fortunei
Sabal minor
Chamaedorea sp.
Aspidistra eliator
Disporopsis pernyi
Podocarpus macrophylla
Fatsia japonica
Aucuba japonica
Cephalotaxus harringtonia
Mahonia bealii
M. X media
Hedera helix
H. canariensis

Group 2 (grows best near the eastern, southern, and western margins of the grove where they get some sunlight or light shade)
Clerodendron bungei
Hedychium coccinium
Camellia japonica
Kurume azalia
Begonia grandis
Magnolia virginiana australis
Pleioblastus simonii
Abelia sp.

Any plant advertised as tolerating dry shade and/or being somewhat agressive are good candidates for growing within a moso grove. The dense rhizome network of an established moso grove creates a competitive environment for any plants sharing its space. You can plant these plants within the moso grove once it gets large enough to underplant. Alternatively when starting a new grove, you can plant them outside the grove in the areas that will be eventually be covered by the grove and let the bamboo envelope them as it spreads.

Mike,

I read your post about planting POTTED Moso in March or April.

Just curious, why would you wait until then?

What difference is there in the timing of taking divisions vs. planting a potted Moso?

Most small potted moso are grown from seed and the large-leaved seedling form of moso is not as cold hardy as the small-leaved mature form of moso. If you expect your temps to stay above 10F, then go ahead and plant it now, otherwise it is best to wait until the worst of the winter cold is past before setting it out. You can plant potted moso anytime of the year provided you keep it well watered in the summer or protect from below 10F cold in the winter. Divisions suffer more trauma in the transplant process and are best made in late winter/early spring shortly before the plant begins its active growth in the spring so the plant can start repairing its transplant damage without the winter delay it would get if you transplanted it at this time of year in zones 8 or lower.

Hey Mike ....Marietta is only 25 miles north of piedmont...i just looked it up :-). Ill have to come take a look sometime

After reading these posts on Moso, I Googled "Moso Seedlings" and came to a sub page of the Lewisbamboo.com site. On this page is a quote, that: "divisions never show the agressive groth pattern of seedlings". This was news to me, but would seem to make sense. Even more interesting was the countdown on how many Moso seedlings they have sold, only now having "26, 3 gallon sizes left, @ $100 each". A grower I talked to here in Washington said he buys from Lewis Bamboo all the time, and likes what he gets from them. Take a peek?

Seattleboo-
I'd like to understand more about that comment from Lewis Bamboo concerning the differences in growth patterns between seedlings and divisions. The way I look at it, all moso ultimately came from seedlings at some point in their lineage, so why they would act differently doesn't compute for me. Maybe they're claiming that this generation of seedlings has different growth characteristics than past generations, but I've not heard that. I know that seedlings can give rise to appearance differences and "sports," but differences in growth characteristics is new to me.
Finally, while I like the Lewis Bamboo site and I hear they have a good reputation, you also can get moso cheaper and bigger locally ($50 for a 5-gallon moso at www.bambu-u.com)...although not from seedling!

Add another 10 miles to that distance. I'm located 10 miles north of Marietta up next to the base of the Blue Wall near Jones Gap State Park.

The increased growth rate of seedling moso when compared with divisions of mature moso could be due to several causes. It could be due to an absence or a reduced number of latent viruses in the seedlings. Latent viruses are mechanically transmitted viruses which cause no symptoms in the plant other than a reduction in growth rate. Most latent viruses are not passed through to the seedling, so the seedling will show an increased vigor when compared to the parent. Every vegetatively propagated plant that has been studied has been found to have latent viruses in them, so there is no reason why they shouldn't also be present in the less well studied plant, bamboo.

The other possible reason for a reduced growth rate of the Anderson clone division is due to the fact that the Anderson clone is a known cold hardy clone of moso, whereas many of the seedlings were collected from parents from warmer parts of moso's native range in China (from wherever moso happens to be blooming at the time). Cold hardier clones tend to be slower growing than less cold hardy clones. The Anderson clone is cold hardy to -6F, the mature sized seedling clone that I am growing (obtained from Panda Products in the 80's) is leaf hardy to 5F and top kills at 0F. It also shoots a week earlier than the Anderson clone and is more heat/drought tolerant, so it is obviously a more southernly adapted clone of moso.

Related I guess, but some plants show great differences during their juvenile and adult phases. For example, Arborvitae (White Cedar) has juvenile foliage that is needle-like and much different from its flat, mature foliage.
{{gwi:427513}}
Aspects such as winter hardiness probably differ too tho I haven't accurately tested that theory. :)

Mike: "Latent virus" info is appreciated. No variances surprise me, maybe because I'm a neophyte, but mostly because nature never does the same thing twice, as far as I can see. I was thinking that a "field Division" was/is bound to injure the plant in some measure, that the plant would have to heal to move on, that the moving on would always be hindered by the past injury. I've been a Massage Therapist for 25 years, and "reuse injuries" are common, especially impact injuries and surgery, which a field division most decidedly is. A previous link on this subject (which I would have to leave this post to find), can be paraphrased like this: After flowering, no new seed will be exactly like the old seed from the previous flowering, whether it was 20 years or 120 years. Hopefully, the new seedling has ever more strength than the previous generation, but only for the local environment. So a super seed from your place in Georgia, might not perform as well here in Wash. state. I like your more scientific take on 'latent virus' in divisions, more than my homespun theory.

i have recently been aquiring and growing various types of bamboo and done research for several weeks now. but one thing i can;t seem to find is a Relatively Close estimation on average rainfall in the native climate of Moso Bamboo. actually now that i think of it i could just look up the location of groves in china and then look at the rain fall in that area. ok but on to the next topic.

RESPONCE @ kudzu9: Like Mike_Marietta_SC_z8a had said, those could be 2 reasons, another reason is when you perchase moso from a supplier such as Lewis Bamboo, they trip the bamboo top to fit it to the box. i buy most of my bamboo from them, if you get 3 gallon sizes and up the tops will be trimmed. trippimg the top greatly hinders Moso and other giant bamboos. when the shoots grow, as previously stated in this thread, the shoots will basically syphon vital exsessive nutrients from the neighboring culms. so when you order bamboo that has had the culms trimmed but the rhizomes are still large and will be producing large shoots, then the new shoots will not be able to syphon the much needed nutrients from the other culms. so if you grow bamboo from seeds then they should not be trimmed, also as previously stated any damage to the root systems will also greatly hinder the transfer of nutrients. then the roots take damage or are bent it's like kinking a water hose that feeds the new shoots. this also is regretably a more then likely happening from ordering bamboos. for both reasons i'd recommend buying either 2 gallon sizes or buying them as seeds from a reliable source.

GROWTH RATE: from what i have gathered most bamboos Culms grow +30% in hight each year and the rhizomes can grow anywhere from 2-5 feet a year depending on conditions. also the rhizomes have 2 "rumors" as to how far out they can grow which i can't seem to disprove one or the other as of yet. 1 rumor is they can grow as far out as the tallest current Culm. the other rumor is they can grow indeffinately depending on soil conditions and as long as the newer culms increase in size. So say the "source Point" of your bamboo has a culm of 80' high, then the rhizome can grow up to 80' from that spot; however say down that rhizome about 20 feet away from the source location there is a newer 80' tall culm. then that new culm can have up to another 80' away from it. so it could grow 100' from the plant site at that point, and so on.

Finally: i live in the houston texas area and will be growing a japanese / tropical styled grove. so far i'm planning on using "Weavers Bamboo" for the primary walls around this 1-2 acre grove, with Nigra Black in the corners, with Moso and Giant Grey Henon throughout. i was also considering adding Windmills and Blue Palms inside near an elaborate bamboo, shishi odoshi styled fountain and underground irrigation systems invovling soaker hoses, if anyone else can think of some black, jade, or rich dark green colored plants, then please toss me an email. hopefully i'll have this grove up and running in a few years in which case anyone would be welcome to visit the grove.

Hi i was wondering if anyone knows if i can grow moso in zone 6 if theirs a way i can. im in danville IL and i really love the look of this bamboo. my partner and i are buying a home with 2 acres and its surrounded by farm land on 3 sides of the property. im wanting to grow these to block the wind and help cut down the dust spray from the farmers around my property. for growing an organic garden. want to make projects out of them as the years go on. thank you. Bryan

It's minimum cold hardy temperature is between -5F to 5F depending on the actual variety of P. edulis, including Moso. But at that temperature, it will never reach it's full size and may freeze back to the ground each Winter, thus keeping it smaller. The roots are usually about 10 degrees more cold hardy than the listed cold hardiness temp.

It won't survive the winters. If I were making a wind break I'd plant a bunch of pine trees.