I have decided to change the topic of this thread a bit. I now seek to know which leptomorph bamboos are the least aggressive spreaders. The pachymorph spreading types usually either seem to have trouble surviving or recovering from the summer or they are a tropical species which would either not survive the winter or would be almost killed each year. The Thamnocalamus tessellatus would not be damaged by the cold where I live however. I could use containment methods such as mowing however if the bamboo is less aggressive than the vast majority or leptomorph types then it would perhaps need only mowing for containment. I have heard that Pleioblastus Simonii does not spread aggressively (I am not sure exactly how that compares to the aggresive spreaders though). It has many interesting characteristics.

According to Sean Hogan, Chusqueas grow very high and far South in the Andes so perhaps z6 is not out of the question for some selections.... but these are probably not C. culeou. Perhaps such plants would be classified under C. andina. Also, Chusqueas such as C. culeou and C. valdiviensis have shown greater cold hardiness in maritime climates than in the Southeast (though few people have tried them in the Southeast)... in the case of C. culeou this could be a genetic thing but for C. valdiviensis, it would seem that the stress of growing in a climate with hot summers and wide swings in temperature in fall and spring detracts from its cold hardiness (this is also true of some palms). Specifically... it has withstood 10F with no damage here, but has frozen to the ground every winter at a friend's garden in SC from temperatures in the mid teens. Larger and more established plants can handle more cold of course, within reason. I would generally rate Chusquea and Yushania hardiness as follows based on their performance in the Northwest.... C. culeou anywhere from 0-15F C. culeou 'Cana Prieta' 0F C. cumingii at least 10F C. gigantea/breviglumis about 5F but late shoots may be destroyed by cold C. macrostachya at least 10F C. valdiviensis at least 10F Y. anceps incl. 'Pitt White'... at least 0-5F (fully hardy here) Y. maling 15F... no problems in my sheltered garden but some report late shoots are damaged by cold... could be hardier in SE. That's what I've seen... as for other Chusquea and Yushania spp. I'm not sure and can only quote books and web sites!

OkPrairie: The best blooming hibiscus for me so far, with the longest lasting blooms has been the Texas Star. It is open in the morning when I leave at 8:00 a.m. and still open in the evening when I get home at 6:00 p.m. The other hybrids' blooms don't open until after I leave for work, and sometimes, if I'm lucky, I'll see one open right before it declines in the evening. I'm so enjoying this long weekend. We need some more rain, but I also enjoy getting out and watering in order to check on the plants (for bugs, diseases, deadheading, whatever). Can't do that if I rely on soaker hoses and sprinklers all the time. I love having them for back up, but true gardening to me, is hands on. I'm waiting for Gulf Fritillaries still! Got plenty of passiflora. My new aster is putting forth new foliage and appears it will be a vigorous plant - to about 4' with purple flowers, blooms in late summer, and is supposed to be a grand nectaring plant for butterflies. Time will tell. Oh, it is aster tartaricus 'Jindai'. Ordered it from Lazy S's Farm. I love those folks there. Plants are small, but they will return your e-mail, make suggestions if you don't know what you are looking for, but know what you want it to do for you. I have plenty of milkweed seeds for next year (will start indoors early), asclepias curassavica. I've heard the Monarchs really like it best. Weeds, weeds everywhere. Too many to try to play catch up with now, so will just have to weather the weed storm until next year. I really need to put in some tough ground cover that will grow at the base of crowded plants, enough to stay the weeds. Any suggestions? I'm thinking maybe Bugle Weed will do the trick, or money wort. I have that, and can put plenty of starts out there. Tomorrow, I'm cutting back the Joe Pye Weed. The Morning Glories have taken in over so they will go with it. I expect I'll get some more growth out of the eupatorium before frost sets in. Datura is blooming, and I am to get some seeds of the yellow flowering datura. Am looking forward to that. Of my 3 hydrangeas planted in the back yard, H. Frau Reiko and oakleaf hydrangea are the best. I love the hot pink blooms on H. Merritt's Pride, but it demands so much more watering than the others. Does anyone know when Elderberry blooms? My Goldilocks ivy is growing well. It really brightens up that shady corner, and doesn't seem as overwhelming as the regular ivy. Two of my elephant ears are blooming! 'Illustris' and 'Fontanesii'. Actually, the bloom sets the foliage back a bit, but I wanted to see what they looked like. I'm going to get tiny tubers off my Hitchhiker EE; will try to bring to the trade. Can you guys tell me some nectar flowers that I can winter sow? Tomato_Hornworm - if you get on this forum, I know there is a sphinx moth that uses sweet potato as a host plant. Do you recall which one? Is anyone planting anything this fall? I am not going to get my lindera benzoin until the 1st week of October. I hope it will be okay to plant then. What do you think? I know, so many questions, but you guys are so helpful. If you weren't so helpful, I wouldn't be so inclined to ask! LOL! Susan

okmulgeeboy, My dad loved wild greens and always had at least one poke plant and one lambs quarters plant in the back corner of the yard right by his compost pile in the 1960s in our little Fort Worth suburb. No one ever really ate the wild greens except him. My father-in-law, who lived in Pennsylvania, was that way with dandelion greens in late winter/early spring and my husband still talks endlessly about dandelion greens. I tell him they are out there in the yard if he wants to collect them, clean them, eat them, etc. but he doesn't do it, so I think they probably weren't all that great---but they remind him of his dad who's been gone for 16 years now. I tried to grow dandelion greens for him in my garden and never could make it happen, but I got credit for trying. It always struck me as funny that I failed at growing dandelions from purchased seed and giving it a serious effort, but they reseed themselves all over the place naturally and grow in the yard and pastures with no help from me. Jennifer, I love The Worst Hard Time. I re-read it every summer when the droughts get tough here to remind myself how easy I have it compared to the folks back then. My dad would tell you that they made stuff grow even in the worst years because failure was not an option---they had to grow their own food or die of starvation. The few remaining photos from those years so people I barely recognize---my dad and his siblings looking so horrifically thin, but they survived. They lived across the Red River in Spanish Fort TX just SW of the southwestern corner of the county where I live now, and they were so close to the river that the kids would walk to the river, fill up a bucket with water, and walk back to the garden to water one plant...over and over again. With 9 kids (there were several more, but they didn't survive the first year of life), there always was someone fresh to haul water, but it was a never-ending task. They mostly raised what would tolerate drought and heat, so field corn and pinto beans, and they ate them for three meals a day....cornmeal mush for breakfast, cornbread for lunch, and beans and cornbread for dinner. In spring they had greens...turnip greens, collard greens, whatever was green and edible. For my dad's entire life, he ate red beans, greens and cornbread for dinner every Wednesday because he loved it and because it reminded him of his childhood. It wasn't much food compared to how we eat nowadays, but it kept them alive, and they supplemented the meals with milk from their cow, eggs from their hens, occasional meat from a hog they had slaughtered, etc. All the kids quit school to go to work around 3rd or 4th grade because the dollar a day they each earned from, for example, picking cotton from sunrise to sunset, was the only cash income the family had to buy shoes, sewing needles or salt or whatever they needed from the little general store. I admire my grandmother for being able to feed her family on almost new money and erratic crops. Even when she had cream and butter from their cow, they almost never got to enjoy it...she took it to the general store to barter for something they needed more desperately. My grandfather worked so hard to raise their animals, the few that they had because those animals put protein in their bellies and milk in the babies' bellies, and to farm, but it never paid off for him financially. I didn't understand until I was an adult that my grandparents were poor white sharecroppers their whole lives. For their entire lives, until the day they died (and my grandparents died young before my dad even had grown up), it was just a daily struggle to survive that I find hard to imagine. I think they were a million times tougher than we are. When World War II broke out, it saved my dad and his brothers...they couldn't leave the farm fast enough to join the military. They were patriotic, their nation needed them, and they wanted to serve. They had no idea when they left the farm that they'd be eating three square meals a day and it was all kinds of wonderful food that they'd never had growing up....plenty of meat, potatoes, a very wide assortment of veggies, fruit, etc. They all gained a lot of weight in the military, they said, and they still were skinny when they came home after the war. For the rest of his life, my dad spoke in glowing terms of how wonderful the food on his navy ship was, and he was still in awe that they always got three meals a day, three "good meals", as he put it, while in the navy. He never had three guaranteed meals per day until then. As children the only fruit they ate was basically one orange per year, which they each received as a Christmas gift--their only Christmas gift. Imagine those poor children growing up and then being on a navy ship and then having fruit of some sort available most days. It must have seemed like Heaven to them. I wonder how many of us would thrive under those conditions and struggle nowadays? I love your memories of the farm, even the spiders! Those country women were strong and tough, and I guess it is because they had to be in order to survive. My dad's family survived a tornado by running from the house and into their tornado shelter/roof cellar during dinner one night. Dad would tell us that the tornado picked up the house with the food on the table and the kerosene lantern lit and sitting on the table, and sat it down about 50 feet away (no foundation, just a tiny wood frame house sitting on four cornerstones, and the tornado didn't move the cornerstones) and nothing on the table spilled. They came out of the cellar and finished dinner. This story both fascinated me and horrified me when I was a kid. For them, the worst part of it was that the house was moved so much farther away from the cellar and the water pump than it had been before. I am sure there was an outhouse when they were kids, but by the time Dad took me to see the old house in the early 1970s, the cellar had collapsed, the outhouse was gone and the guy who owned the place was storing bales of hay in what remained of the house. That little house where they all lived would fit into my living room/dining room now, and it is hard to comprehend their living conditions in that tiny little shack. Nancy, I think everyone has some sort of pressure canner horror story. I don't remember my dad's canner ever exploding, but remember it locking up, pressurized, and he couldn't get it unlocked to remove the lid. I guess, as a kid, I stopped paying attention to what he was doing with it but he must have gotten the lid off of it at some point and that batch of jars removed because we continued using that canner for years. My mom hated canning and wanted nothing to do with it (all her life she described herself as inherently lazy, and she was being truthful), but my dad made her can with him when he was canning stuff. Her "I am lazy" excuse just didn't fly with him. lol. I never would have learned to garden, can or sew as a kid if my dad hadn't taught me because she wasn't going to. Without realizing it at the time, my dad was teaching me to be self-sufficient in ways that mattered to him, even if they didn't matter to my mom. I'm grateful to him for that and so much more. okmulgeeboy, That jiggling of the weight is, to me, the sound of summer in the kitchen. Well, that and the sound of the jars as the lids ping and seal---a favorite sound. I remember the old canners that had the petcocks on them, and don't miss those. The canners we have nowadays seem so much safer. I do still wear a water-proof oilcloth apron when canning---and if you ever knew anyone who had some sort of steam burn or spill burn on their body from a canning accident (I never did have such an injury like that myself but knew plenty of older relatives who did at some point in their lives), you know why I think it is important to wear that oilcloth apron. Larry, I love your memories! My mom's parents farmed and ranched but not successfully and never had two nickels to rub together, not even long after they gave up farming and ranching, moved to the city, and took paying jobs. So, they qualified for some sort of government food assistance program in the 1960s and the 1970s and they gratefully accepted the food, though it really hurt their pride to take it. What I remember from all that is that we kids thought the government cheese was the best cheese on earth and we loved eating it at my grandparents' house when we went to visit them. One of our neighbors when we first moved here in the late 1990s used to tell me stories of coming to Oklahoma in a covered wagon when he was three years old. He was in his late 80s when we met him, I guess, and I loved his tales of Oklahoma's early days. His uncle came here first and lived in a dugout on the banks of the Red River, not far at all from where we live now, and one by one all the other brothers moved here and brought their families so they all lived pretty close to one another here on separate little farms. He remembered that dugout of his uncle's (and didn't have much good to say about it either), but his family built an unpainted house from lumber when they moved here and he was grateful they didn't have to live in a dugout like his uncle's...even though they were too poor to paint that house after they built it. One cool thing about this part of the country is that those days are not so far behind us....we still have a couple of really old folks here (older than 100) who are like walking history books of our county. Fred's house was built by his uncle in the early 1900s, and that uncle must have been pretty prosperous because there was a second structure, located maybe 70 feet from the house, that had a nice hip roof and lots of windows, and it was their summer kitchen. It was still standing when we moved here and I believe it is still standing to this day. How cool is that? I'd love to have a summer kitchen so our house wouldn't heat up on canning days too. Also, that house had a front staircase and it had a back staircase that came right down into the kitchen. At first, I thought the back staircase was just for convenience, but then I came to realize it really was a safety feature because if the house caught fire when everyone was upstairs sleeping, there were two routes to come down to escape the fire instead of just one. I've always loved that house and hope Fred's family keeps it in the family now that he is gone. There's just such a long family history in that house that I'm afraid a new purchaser wouldn't appreciate. My dad's family did all those outside chores under a tree, no roof, but were grateful for the shade of the tree. They did have a smokehouse to smoke the meat after they butchered a hog, but the smokehouse was no longer standing by the time I got to see their childhood home once I was a older child (I think I was about 11 or 12 the one time my dad and his brother took my cousin and I to see it, and we were the only kids from our families who ever got to see it). My dad used to joke about them being sharecroppers. The man they rented the farm from had given up on farming and moved back to Tennessee. They were, of course, supposed to farm on shares and send him his share of the profit from the farm in lieu of rent every year after they sold the cash crop. Of course, they never made a cash crop and never sent him any money, so once a year my grandfather had to write that letter to explain about the heat and drought and lack of a cash crop and that there was no money to send him, but surely next year would be better. Then, they lived in fear of being evicted off the farm until they heard back from their landlord that he understood---he couldn't make a living on that land either, so he didn't expect my grandfather could as well. When my dad would talk about the pigs and the chickens and the milk cow and all the crops when I was a kid, I thought it meant they had plentiful food if nothing else, but later on I realized that despite their hard work they barely had enough to survive. Yet, all their memories really were happy ones. My dad got a stick (like a twig from a tree) and a piece of string for Christmas one year, and he thought that was the best thing ever---it was really the only toy he ever had, just a stick and a string, but he was a little boy and entertained himself with it. Another year there must have been more money and they each got an orange and one piece of hard candy, and they remembered that as their best Christmas ever. It wasn't until my great-uncle Charlie died in the 1970s that I learned he was the source of one pair of new shoes a year for my dad and his siblings, and the oranges and hard candy at Christmas. He must have been a more prosperous farmer than my grandfather was. For all that we fuss over our gardens and work in them and enjoy eating the harvest and preserving the excess, we still don't have the struggle they had to raise edible crops. If I had to walk a quarter-mile to the Red River to haul home water one bucket at a time to water the garden, well then, I wouldn't have a garden! The weather here was nice on Saturday and will be insanely hot (upper 70s) today, and then we turn drastically colder Tuesday and have a chance of snow. I hate the Oklahoma weather roller coaster that we have every winter, and you'd think I'd be used to it by now. I haven't ordered onions either. I haven't started seeds, although today is the day I usually do that, and I might manage to find time to do that late today. If not today, then tomorrow. I do have wildflower seeds stratifying in the extra fridge out in the garage, so at least there's that. I'm hoping today's sunshine and heat dry up the mud in the yard, and then maybe I'll get a couple of days where I won't have to mop up doggie and kitty pawprints off the floor when they come indoors. I swear, it is like the dogs, especially, stomp around in the mud and puddles just to see how much mud they can track in on their paws every time they come inside. Signs of spring really are appearing now, but I'm looking at the February forecast and weather outlooks and thinking spring still remains a long way off. Dawn