Well, I love in a completely different part of the valley, but I know that many plants do not like the alkaline soil that we have here. I have resorted to raised beds for my veggies with non-native soil, and I mix in peat, coffee grounds or a soil acidifier if I am dealing with an acid-loving plant like Gardenias, etc.

I am having great success with my fruit trees with a product called Quantuum that a neighbor gave me a small jar of. It is a soil conditioner that is basically a microbacterial and supposedly helps the plants retain more moisture in the roots. I also put it on my veggies and - KaBoom! Got very impressive results and have since found the product online and ordered a gallon of the stuff. Can't remember the site but it should come up if you Google it. You dilute it with water, so the gallon should last me a while, LOL.

Our citrus trees are all in native soil which is clay-like in this area and they seem very happy as long as we use a good fertilizer designed for AZ citrus. Hope that helps a little bit and good luck!

thanks, GardenQueen,

You made some important points. The alkalinity is our big enemy here. I can't imagine what it's like to live in the east coast where you need to add lime to the soil; what a dream!

I haven't done the raised beds project yet, but I do have roses, etc, in big pots that are doing much better than the ones I put in the ground. However, I have a cousin who lived in Queen Creek who had beautiful roses in the ground without much fuss. That's what made me think some areas have better soil than others. But maybe the difference is the water supply. I think QC gets its water from deep wells; Phoenix has salty alkaline CAP/SRP water.

Thanks for the supplement tip. I'll look into that. Rich.

You're most welcome, Rich! You may also find that you have several types of soil in different parts of your yard. We sure do and as I said the citrus love the clay we have on the West side yard, then we have this silty stuff with no nutrients whatsoever in the middle portion and just rocks, rocks, rocks on the far east side.

What also works if you want to plant directly in the ground is this: dig a hole 3-4 times the width and depth that is needed. Fill halfway with non-native soil (I like Kellogg's which is about 8 bucks a cubic yard at Home Depot). Add in the amendments such as bone meal, compopst, etc. and then plant, filling hole with remaining non-native soil.

".... lots of micronutrient deficiencies ...."

Such as? Have you added anything? Who tested it for you?
I find the soils in the valley pretty good with few exceptions.

Alkaline pretty much throughout the southwest (routinely add soil sulfur per mfg. directions to hit around pH6.5) Or plant natives.

Too much salt = SOME areas. Caliche, even less areas. When you water--flood--target 3 feet deep. Can try soil gypsum IF soil has high sodium salts. Break through caliche layer if present in several spots to allow drain through. If it is really bad then raised beds for planting.

Too little carbon. A fair amount of areas. One time till of either a finished compost and immediately plant, or a carbon based mulch and let it cook for a year before planting. Continue to mulch the area with wood chips over time and carbon will buildup, soil will become less compact and more friable over time.

What are you trying to grow?

Oh yeah ... many different soil types.

Ahwatukee foothills is basically eroded rock in most areas.
Along the river is flood plain sandy silt
North Valley has more caliche

All of them are alkaline and deficient in organic matter if you want to grow non-natives. Soil sulfur and loads of compost will usually fix it.

Basically Arizona soil is bad. It is a desert after all. Up here in Camp Verde its caliche and rock, then more rock with no nutrients at all. The first time I tried to plant a tomato in this soil it died in a week
I have only raised veggie beds. Garden Q is right about digging a hole larger so you can add other matter to the native soil. We do this with everything we plant, roses, fruit trees etc. If you run into caliche, try and remove as much as you can from the hole when planting.

Hey campv, is the farm stand up your way that has the yummy hatch chiles (and great veggies) open for the season yet? Just thought I'd ask before I take the drive up to get some ;)

I live in an area that used to be cotton fields, or something like that and my soil is decent. I still amend it continuously, of course, but all in all it is not too bad.

But, if you are living in the areas of endless building on the outskirts of town, which have always been desert, your soil is likely pretty bad.

If you are refering to our farmers market in town near the fort Yes it is open on Sat mornings. I have to question "Hatch" chiles, they do sell chiles. If you give it a little time we also have a corn fest @ Hausers farm. They grow it right there on the farm. In the same area we have a man that sells veggies right from his field he also has a stand, both are just a couple of min. from town on the same road. You could just make the rounds.
If you stop a the chamber of comm. (main st.)they will be able to direct you. PS you just missed the Pecan/ wine fest

Oh, it's the man that sells by the road at his farm that I'm speaking of. They roast the green chiles right there and put 'em up hot in the bag right from the roaster. The whole truck smells so good you can't stand it and we always have to eat a couple before we make it home! We did get some corn from Hausers last year and it was some of the best I've had-yum.

Didn't know about the Farmer's market I will have to check that out. Thanks for the great info and sorry I missed the pecan/wine fest.

thanks for the suggestions, everyone. You hit upon my problem with my bare root roses- I didn't amend the soil nearly enough. I thought adding lots of peat moss to the soils would be enough. But looks like I need to add even more to "dilute" the soil's alkalinity.

Fascist Nation, I often don't need to test for micro-nutrient deficiencies. I've been gardening long enough to be able to spot them with my eyes. Some plants are better "indicators" than others though.

I thought adding lots of peat moss to the soils would be enough. But looks like I need to add even more to "dilute" the soil's alkalinity.

Jackson-Perkins used to grow acres and acres of roses in this area, with no special amendments.

No peat moss ... when that stuff dries out, it turns into plastic and is extremely hard to re-wet. And, if you have a heavily-supplemented planting hole surrounded by native dirt, you will stunt the roots. They won't leave the hole. It's called "flower-potting" because you might as well have them in a pot.

Soil Sulfur will lower the pH a bit, but more important, it frees up other minerals.

Dig a planting hole a couple of feet wide and deep enough to hold the roots and have the graft at the correct level.

Fill the hole with water and let it drain. This puts a reservoir of water under the roots to encourage them to go deep.

Mix a cupful or so of soil sulfur into the dirt you removed from the hole, plant the rose in the hole at the correct level and pat the dirt down.

Thoroughly water the plant in - a slow soak.

Apply a thick mulch to the entire planting basin to hold in the moisture.

Water deeply when you water, and use a moisture probe to tell you when you need it, until you get used to your garden's patterns.

Lazygardens, thanks for the rose tips. A lot of the points you made I already know, but I appreciate the words.

It's ironic you mentioned the Jackson and Perkins issue because I pondered the same thing (how were they able to grow a commercial crop here?.) For one thing, they probably had flood irrigation and the soil was probably amended with manure or other rich organics, etc.

From what I've read in university extension articles, adding soil sulfur to our alkaline soil won't lower the pH because there's so much free lime (the soil is highly buffered.) I'm going to have to re-do my whole mini rose garden this winter. It's in terrible shape right now from the heat and alkalinity.

Rich -
Jackson Perkins used the typical canal siphon irrigation - water ran in a groove between the rows. No special amendments or manures or anything: but careful attention to water application. My brother worked for them as a weeder for a while.

Sulfur might not do too much to the pH, but it does liberate some minerals and it worth using. (according to the Desert Botanic Garden)

Mulching after planting is probably the best thing you can do - it helps keep water in the soil.

Pruning times need to be adjusted. The typical spring pruning leaves the plant with new growth right as the heat hits. Prune in the fall and enjoy the roses in the winter and early spring, then the leaves can protect the plant from sunburn in the summer. My dad's roses were fabulous with fall pruning, and looked crappy in the summer, but survived.

Minis can use afternoon shade. They are not as robust as the bigger ones.

Very interesting discussion. I live on a flood-irrigated lot and - now that I'm spending more time outdoors - I can see that the dirt needs help. Irrigation water soaks in in no time and the surface begins to dry and crack. These are areas in the yard where it's also very difficult to get grass to grow. Perhaps I should get a load of compost and spread it over these patchy spots. Any thoughts on what best to do?

tomato, interesting to hear your circumstances. Applying a load of compost sure couldn't hurt, but if it's in a turf area, I'd probably mix in soil with the compost so the in-fill areas don't become so porous and dry out so fast.

With regard to flood irrigation, I'm curious about the water quality of the irrigation (especially compared to Phx tap water.) Obviously it's minimally treated (or at all, I don't know) which means no chlorine or other disinfectants. I wonder if the pH or alkalinity are lower than Phoenix tap water.

I remember renting a room in a home that had flood irrigation when I first moved to AZ years ago. Seeing it was such a strange concept for me as a newcomer. But, if the land pitch is just right, it's a logical and low tech way to deliver water. It's not particularly expensive, either, is it?

Rich, there is no way on earth I'd have this patch of green in the city if I had to pay for potable water from the city. At just under $100/yr, irrigation is a bargain. Since it does come from the canals (ultimately from the Salt and Verde Rivers), it is saltier than city water, but has no added components. It brings some undesirables with it, namely weeds and some invasives, and it can be a headache at times - as when I get a delivery schedule of 2 a.m.! Much of the yard has been tilled at one time or another, but I do think I need to do some amending now.