Although I'm no expert, I think the mineral content issue is debatable for 2 reasons - 1. I have seen studies that showed that plants can pull minerals from bark as necessary for good performance. I may have the paper if you are interested. 2. Potted plants, which include many perennials, do well in potting soil which never has any mineral content. The disclaimer here is that most people probably repot every 5 years or so since the potting soil decomposes to 50% of initial volume. 3. Nurseries often use pure composted bark to grow plants because it's cheap. They buy it raw and let it sit in huge piles for a year or more. Nevertheless, I agree in the sense that if I had to do it all over I would include topsoil in my initial beds mostly to reduce settling (raised beds settled about 4" in 4 years) but I did not find it at the bulk material suppliers so I went with "planters mix" from the bulk supplier. I could never get a straight answer on what was in this but I suspect one of the components is builders sandy loam. Anyhow, my plants are doing fine except for clematis, which I just realized have chlorosis. I only use "natural" fertilizers which of course are only natural in the sense that the nitrogen source is not synthetic (usually bone meal or similar). Also, try as you might, I don't think you can ever avoid getting less than 10% native soil in a situation like this unless you put a barrier down. I mixed the amendments throughly as I added them which picked up the native soil.

hi wagon, I think you are over reacting to the whole issue as far as agriculture is concerned, don't drink the water from the tank. Just don't use a HDPE tank. As far as the fire protection aspect, you will probable have to provide a pump for delivering water under pressure depending on how high the tank is above your house. Or rely on the fire dept. sucking the water out using their truck pumps and hose trucks. Construction contractors provide a type of system like this when providing water to their construction site. They have 10 foot diameter steel tanks producing about 5 psi pressure and then have large delivery pipes to get the flow rate out of the tank. The tanks are usually 10 feet in the air on a portable trailer frame in order to get tanker trucks underneath the outlet pipe and move them around from site to site. If my calcs are right, for 10,000 gal., you need a tank 10 ft in diameter and 18 feet long. That is a large tank($$) for a small orchard, so I guess the fire protection is paramount. Aloha

Interesting. I use no pesticides at all, but when I hear about cognitive function, I think about children. I also think about pregnant women who are carrying and nurturing children. I don't know how we can expect a straight answer about these chemicals when it took so long for us to hear about the dangers of hormone replacement after the companies had proof that they were dangerous. Once something has been approved, it is very difficult to get it off the market -- aspirin for instance. I don't know if there are many jobs around that hire people to prove that chemicals are dangerous -- just to prove that they are safe. All you have to do to find out how safe they are is to call the company and ask. Don't ask about yourself, but ask about exposure to a baby or pregnant woman. If it is dangerous for them, it is too dangerous for me. Sammy

Randall, based on your location, here's the government poop on your soil (see below the demarcation). I'm guessing it's not red clay, but rather has some yellow clay in it. Does it look like the picture at the bottom of this post (farm near Raleigh)? I'd recommend fescue if you want a year-round green lawn. If your soil doesn't crust and get hard during the summer, you can use lime. Otherwise, use gypsum to break up the hard clay surface and Milorganite when it comes time to plant fescue seed. You should never have to dethatch, but aerating once or twice a year can help OM get deeper and work faster after you have a lawn going. You actually can top dress with granular lime right after seeding and don't worry about the nitrogen reaction. it won't matter that much. I have used peat moss or vermiculite as a top dressing also, but I have a commercial level Hunter irrigation system to keep that moist with regular spritzes. Fescue doesn't like to be covered too much, and even good seed can take three weeks to germinate (sprout). Straw helps, but I sometimes use a very lightweight insect cloth in 100-foot rolls to cover seed for the first three weeks. As soon as the grass is popping up, pull that off so the new sprouts don't "damp off." Look for the freshest seed you can find, direct from Oregon. Several sources on the internet when it comes to buying seed. Meanwhile, yes by all means find worms. I can't tell you how nice it is to see piles 4-inches in diameter of wormcastings in my yard this time of year, all over the place. One worm near a Pro-Spray head was about 10-inches long. He was a monster. We have little "cocoons" or egg thingees all over the raised vegetable garden, which has tons of azaleas, camellias and mountain laurels interspersed around additional raised beds for those good ol' veggies. We actually had tomatoes still two weeks ago! Anyway, the cocoons are future worms. Google earthworm images on the net so you can learn to recognize them. If you find them in the woods or anywhere, grab them and put them in your yard. Worms will find a way to organic material, even in clay soils, and they are indispensable. Good luck. ================================================= DURHAM SERIES The Durham series consists of deep, well drained moderately permeable soils formed in loamy residuum from acid crystalline rock. They are nearly level to sloping soils on broad ridges of the Piedmont. TAXONOMIC CLASS: Fine-loamy, siliceous, semiactive, thermic Typic Hapludults TYPICAL PEDON: Durham loamy sand--cultivated. (Colors are for moist soil unless otherwise stated.) Ap--0 to 8 inches; light brownish gray (10YR 6/2) loamy sand; weak coarse granular structure; very friable; medium acid; clear smooth boundary. (6 to 10 inches thick) BA1--8 to 13 inches; pale brown (10YR 6/3) loamy sand; weak coarse granular structure; very friable; strongly acid; clear smooth boundary. (4 to 10 inches thick) BA2--13 to 16 inches; pale brown (10YR 6/3) sandy loam; weak medium granular structure; friable, slightly brittle; strongly acid; clear smooth boundary. (0 to 4 inches thick) Bt1--16 to 25 inches; brownish yellow (10YR 6/6) sandy clay loam; moderate medium subangular blocky structure; friable, slightly sticky, slightly plastic; thin continuous clay films; strongly acid; clear smooth boundary. (8 to 10 inches thick) Bt2--25 to 36 inches; yellowish brown (10YR 5/8) heavy sandy clay loam, few fine and medium distinct (7.5YR 5/6) strong brown and yellowish red (5YR 4/6) mottles; moderate medium subangular blocky structure; friable, slightly sticky, slightly plastic; thin continuous clay films; strongly acid; gradual smooth boundary. (10 to 14 inches thick) Bt3--36 to 42 inches; mottled yellowish brown (10YR 5/8), strong brown (7.6YR 5/8), and yellowish red (5YR 5/8) sandy clay loam; weak medium subangular blocky structure; friable, slightly sticky, slightly plastic; thin patchy clay films on vertical faces of peds; few fine flakes of mica; strongly acid; gradual wavy boundary. (0 to 8 inches thick) BC--42 to 48 inches; mottled yellowish brown (10YR 5/4), strong brown (7.5YR 5/6), and yellowish red (5YR 5/8) sandy clay loam; weak medium subangular blocky structure; friable; few fine flakes of mica; few bodies of sandy loam; strongly acid; gradual wavy boundary. (5 to 12 inches thick) C--48 to 60 inches; mottled yellow, yellowish red, and pale brown saprolite that crushes to sandy loam; rock structure; friable; strongly acid. TYPE LOCATION: Wake County, North Carolina; five miles south of Rolesville, North Carolina, on county road 2227, 1/4 mile east of Bethany Baptist Church at junction of county road 1003; 50 feet north of road in cultivated field. RANGE IN CHARACTERISTICS: The thickness of the loamy horizons over saprolite range from 40 to more than 60 inches below the surface. Depth to bedrock is more than 5 feet. Coarse fragments range from 0 to 5 percent throughout. The soil is strongly acid or very strongly acid except where the surface has been limed. The A or Ap horizons have hues of 7.5YR, 10YR, and 2.5Y, value of 4 to 6, and chroma of 1 to 3. The BA horizon as hue of 10YR and 2.5Y, value of 6 to 8, chroma of 1 to 4. The A horizon is loamy coarse sand, loamy sand, sandy loam, or fine sandy loam. Where present, BA and BE horizons of sandy loam are pale brown, brownish yellow, brown, or light yellowish brown. The Bt horizon has hue of 7.5YR, 10YR, or 2.5Y, value of 5 to 8, and chroma of 4 to 8. It has few to common reddish, brownish, or yellowish mottles. Mottles in chroma of 2 or less are below the upper 20 inches of the Bt horizon. It is sandy clay loam or clay loam. Some pedons have lower Bt horizon of sandy clay, but the textural control section averages less than 35 percent clay. The BC horizon is similar in color to the Bt horizon except where the mottles are more contrasting. It is sandy loam, sandy clay loam, or clay loam. The B3 horizon contains weatherable minerals such as mica and feldspar. The C horizon is mottled or varicolored saprolite of acid crystalline rock. It is sandy loam or loamy sand. COMPETING SERIES: These are the Apison, Cahaba, Cowarts, Emporia, Euharlee, Granville, Hartsells, Kempsville, Linker, Marvyn, Nauvoo, Nectar, Pirum, Spadra, and Suffolk series. Apison, Hartsells, Linker, and Pirum soils have bedrock at depths less than 40 inches. Cahaba, Nauvoo, and Nectar soils have redder hue. Cowarts, Emporia, Kempsville, Marvyn, Spadra, and Suffolk soils lack weatherable minerals in the lower solum and have C horizons of Coastal Plain or old alluvial sediments. Euharlee soils contain more silt. Granville soils are higher in exchangeable aluminum. GEOGRAPHIC SETTING: Durham soils are on nearly level to sloping Piedmont uplands. Slopes are commonly 2 to 5 percent and range from 0 to 10 percent. Durham soils formed in residuum weathered from acid crystalline rocks, chiefly granite and gneiss. Mean annual precipitation is about 47 inches and the mean annual temperature is about 60 degrees F. near the type location. GEOGRAPHICALLY ASSOCIATED SOILS: These are the Appling, Cecil, Helena, Louisburg, Pacolet, Vance, Wedowee, and Worsham series. Appling, Cecil, Helena, Pacolet, Vance, Wedowee, and Worsham soils contain more clay and Louisburg soils contain less clay. Helena and Worsham soils have mottles with chroma 2 or less in the upper 20 inches of the control section and occupy lower positions on the landscape. DRAINAGE AND PERMEABILITY: Well drained; medium runoff; moderate permeability in upper subsoil and moderately slow permeability in lower subsoil. USE AND VEGETATION: About two thirds of the total acreage is in cultivation or pasture. The remainder is in mixed hardwood and pine. Common crops grown are corn, soybeans, tobaco, cotton, small grain, and vegetables. Native tree species include loblolly pine, short leaf pine, Viginia pine, sweetgum, whiteoak, red oak, post oak, hickory, and yellow-poplar. Understory species include flowering dogwood, persimmon, sourwood, red maple, eastern redbud, eastern redcedar, and common sassafras DISTRIBUTION AND EXTENT: Piedmont of North Carolina, Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina, and Virginia. The series is of moderate extent. MLRA SOIL SURVEY REGIONAL OFFICE (MO) RESPONSIBLE: Raleigh, North Carolina SERIES ESTABLISHED: Raleigh to New Bern Area, North Carolina, 1900. REMARKS: Durham soils were formerly placed in the Red-Yellow Podzolic great soil group. They ranged in texture of the B horizon from moderately-fine to fine, and in drainage from well drained to moderately well drained. This revision restricts the texture of the argillic horizon to fine-loamy and the drainage class to well drained. Here is a link that might be useful: Cecil soil (probably what you have)