" I have been told not to put Maples in here"

why? Maples come in every size and shape imaginable. That's too blanket a statement. There are even narrow cultivars of sugar maple if that lets you fit one in a little better.

ladede, what city or state are you in?

Ginkgo is an excellent tree. Long as you plant a male they mind their own business well. Maybe not the fastest growing though.

Sugar maples and sandy soil are a bad combination. The town I live in has very sandy soil in most places and I have yet to see a decent looking sugar maple in the area. I've seen some that are tall like the one you had but they are by no means magnificent specimens. Most are diseased and very unhappy. Sugar maples are not very drought tolerant and prefer fertile soil both of which are compromised in sandy soil. Red maples will do just fine. An October Glory while a fine tree may be a bit large for your site. You should look for some of the more narrow cultivars on the market such as Bowhall, Red Rocket, and Scarlet Sentinel. There are a couple of hybrids on the market that are becoming easier to find that are a cross between the Shantung maple and Norway maple. The hybrids are Norwegian Sunset and Pacific Sunset and both are medium size trees that would better fit the size of your property. You can do a Google search to see what they look like.

Thanks, for the help. I live in Northen Ky. I was told they break up concrete and undermine foundations. The SugarMaple was a slow grow, maybe it didn't like the sandy soil after all and it did die back alot. But it sure was pretty . I was told the Ginko is fast, sounds like it is not. I was told they only sell the male.

I did search suggested maple trees they are all beautiful and the color I am looking for. I just don't know if I can find them.

Shantung maple should do fine. They mostly have bright yellow fall color like Gingko. Grows fairly fast (some can be really fast, it varies seedling to seedling as I've found out). Doesn't get too large. The root system isn't as aggressive as American maples. Rated one of best wind and ice resistant trees. Strong wood. If you want red fall color, you'd have to drive to Ft Worth to get one from Metro Maples called 'Fire Dragon'. They do not ship them. It sits on sandy soil so it should work fine for you. Can get one from Sooner Plant farm website if you can't find one locally.

Another option is Trident Maple.

I was told they break up concrete and undermine foundations.

That too is a bit too much of a blanket statement :-) That possibility exists with many surface rooted trees, not just maples. And it tends to be exaggerated. If your foundation is structurally secure, no tree roots are likely to undermine it. If the foundation is cracked or damaged, any type of tree roots could pose problems. Relatively thin slabs of concrete - like driveways, sidwalks, patios - can be cracked or lifted by surface roots, which occur with age on many different types of trees. Slab foundations tend to be thicker than other types of concrete slabs and generally have reinforcement but a potential for damage could exist here also.

Soil type can play a significant role as well. In fertile, well-irrigated soils, tree roots tend to much more lateral growth and surface roots on those species prone to them are much more likely to develop than if the soil were sandier, less fertile and less well-irrigated. In these cases, roots will often penetrate deeper into the soil for anchorage and to seek a lower water table.

Regardless, I would not rule out including a maple if that is your first choice. There are just too many possibilites and sizes of these available to fit all sorts of growing conditions. Maples of all varieties are arguably the most widely planted shade trees in this country - if they were uniformly that bad, that wouldn't be the case :-)

I made many calls this morning and hard to find most suggested trees. Most places sold out and or they won't plant the hard hole. Meaning getting out the old roots and the stump from my removed pear.

I can find Autumn Blaze and October glory as well as Red sunset. I read somewhere the AB aren't that red, although they seem to be a beautiful color in the nurseries. My original plan last year was Autumn blaze on side where SugarMaple was and Octobery glory on the other side. Two large trees. I love the Maples and am getting one come H or high water! ha

I am thinking about doing another pear on the other side again, this time Aritiscrat. I read they may break in the wind? not sure but the Cleveland aren't as appealing to me.

As for the ginko although lovely, I have in the back of my hosue so many cotton wood trees and they all turn yellow and drop pretty much at once. I think I have changed my mind on it. Although still pretty, want some variety. The back is a steep wooded hill, that we just more or less look at the cotton woods and pick up the leaves.

You can order just about any tree that you want from mail-order sources such as Forestfarm. You can find a list of mail-order sources and the user ratings of these companies at Garden Watchdog.

It sounds like your mind is made up which makes me wonder why you posted here to begin with. An Autumn Blaze maple has an extremely aggressive root system so if you have any reservations about roots invading anything around your house, this would not be the tree to get. Red maples aren't much better in this regard.

As far as fall color, Autumn Blaze is highly variable from tree to tree and from year to year. I have two of them and one turns a scarlet red in the fall while the other one turns more of an orange red color. I've included some pictures of one of them (the orange one) to give you an idea of the growth rate and potential fall color of the species.

From 2002
{{gwi:409717}}

Earlier this year
{{gwi:409718}}

From this fall

{{gwi:450568}}

Sugar maples don't have real bad surface roots.
Silver and red maples do.

Look into Apollo sugar maple. It's a smaller narrow growing form. There's also Steeple which only gets to 20' wide.
Avoid the autumn blaze and avoid norway maples. Theyre no good.

aarggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!! ... maples.... like nails on chalkboards... rotflmbo ...

i dont understand who you are calling ....

have you called TREE FARMS???

have you called tree nurseries????

i suspect you are calling bigboxstores and small local operations ....

link below to tree farms in ky... slanted toward xmas trees.. but tree peeps are weird.. they probably have holiday maples too .. lol ...

you arent looking in the right places.. if you cant find them

good luck.. even if they are maples..

as soon as the ground thaws in late march.. is just as good as now.. for planting trees .... in z5/6

ken

Here is a link that might be useful: link

I had made up my mind last year and didn't get any trees then, and now the landscaping man changed it. But I think he is just trying to provide me with what he has. I am thinking I probably had a bad idea. I don't like the ginko idea either although a lovely tree but slow? Don't have that kind of time and as I said I have lots of yellow fall trees on the hill.

I called the tree farms I found and were referred, they are mostly out of their speciality trees as they call them. I started late although was told plenty of time here to plant. But they all had sales. They told me most were sold out in Sept. the speciality them. So sort of back to square one.
I wanted originally Oct. glory on the old SugarMaple side, landscaping man suggested Ginko, but as I said above, I have many fall yellow trees on the hill. What to do? I found one farm today that he said he would see what he has and call me tomorrow. Told him the tight front etc. He will want to run by , fine with me. He mentioned a "Paper Bark Maple" look beautiful but small to me and I am looking for shade. I might as well settle for a Cleveland pear on the one side. I am thinking October glory for the side which I need the shade the most. Although I am worried about the sidewalk. Seems from what I read all Maples can be a problem. I don't think I have made up my mind I think I am just totally confused now.

thanks for that link one is close the others are hours away. The others would not come here, too far. But I see one I haven't called . thanks

sorry for the confusion but no I am not calling boxstores, I have called nurseries and tree farms. Tree farms had the trees, as well as nurseries but they are tapped out, only have small trees and everyday trees and not many of those. They refer me to other places which I call. I found two places that are going to tell me what they have. One place I called 3x and they never called back. He promised, the other promised and no call. I guess thier busy season .

Maybe you should be calling the boxstores although they are probably out of trees by now. Because the trees in which you are interested are fast growers, you don't have to start with a very large tree. Two weeks ago, I saw some Red Sunset and October Glory maples at Lowe's that were approx ten feet tall, in very good condition, and on sale for (get this) $8! You can buy a 2-3 in caliper tree from a nursery for $200 - 400 or you can buy one for a much cheaper price from one of the boxstores that will catch the nursery tree in growth in just a couple of years at most.

please do not get a cleveland pear... what a nightmare

ken

Welcome to the recession.

Garden center and nursery selection is at all time low. They're just not shipping the plants. Growers are digging after stuff is ordered, not giving you a chance to pick and choose.

Shipping rates on those mail order twigs are outrageous.

It's a great time to look into native plant rescue, really.

And by the way, if you were heartbroken about having to remove your maple, then you are going to go through the same heartbreak if you buy a Cleveland Pear. They have bad surface roots and prone to severe breakage, the blooms smell very bad as well. Not a tree for planting near homes or powerlines.

first let me say this site has been the most help because none of you are selling me anything. So the advice is heartfelt and knowledgable. I decided NOT to do the Cleveland pear. I must have felt what you all are saying, I just don't like it. I talked about nothing last night , and my husband said then don't get it yeah duh! good idea.

Funny thing happened I am tree dumb. We drove all over looking for a Ginko tree two weeks ago, so I could see what they look like with leaves in real life , so I look up the street and walk up the street, and three houses up is a huge one! The gas co. has been cutting on it, you can tell that, its on my side of the street and you can see the odd shape, but what an awesome tree and it survived the hurricane that came through here last fall. I lost 6 trees that I know of on my hill in that event. That weird midwest hurricane. 6 hours of hurricane winds and 5 days of no power. I even took videos of the thing.

Back to the ginko up the street, beautiful huge and so interesting and obviously strong. I think that will be my pick again. On the side where I had a pear taken out. Hard to make a decision until I saw that one up the street. It still even has it leaves!!!! They are falling but what a beauty.

All of the little stores are out of stuff, totally just little shrubs and stuff is all they have. They also won't plant my trees I buy, I have a hard dig. Old tree roots from the maple and tree trunk from the pear.

Ginkgo isn't really a tree you plant when you don't have any other trees and you need something that resembles a tree somewhat soon. They're desireable, don't get me wrong, but expensive, slow growing and typically not that easy to find. And even for experienced gardeners, they are picky and unpredictable.

If you miss having a maple, there are numerous maples in all shapes and sizes. I know Ken says that maples are no good if you like to plant hostas in their root zone but if you don't need to do that, then it's the easiest.

Here, you can definitely plant hosta in the root zone of maples trees. It's probably a function of how much rain is running around as much as anything.

although I live in a very city city, too much deer and they eat all the plants including hostas. Their yummy and inviting to the deer. I live in a tight city too, and I see deer all the time.

Ginko, tree is about a 4" caliber trunk , fairly good size now.

Holy cripes, how much is that 4" caliper Gingko?

Yes Gingkos are very slow growing, but they do fantastic in sandy soils (from what I hear).

Why don't you just get the Gingko and call it day? Otherwise be patient and get something in spring when you have more avaialbility. I'd decide on your top 2 choices so you don't impulse buy...for example Cleveland Pear.

If you don't go Ginkgo or a narrower maple (like Celebration Maple) I'd like to see a Wada's Memory Magnolia or Oakleaf Mountainash in there. Both good choices for sandy soils and typically won't exceed 20' in width.

Prunus 'spire'

10x30.... flowers... fall color. Some descriptions say pink foliage too although I doubt it.

The Ginko is 3 1/2 " calibur trunk, hope its ok, its got tons of branches. They have another up front that doesn't have a ton of branches. Although basically same size, which would be better? I checked there are plenty of buds.

Also saw another one in town, they must like the area.

I am definately not getting a cleveland pear, decided that already. The more I see them , they are shopping center trees. I hope this guy follows through, I think he is annoyed at me, but I just have to make the right choice. I have to pick out another 2nd tree or wait as the poster above suggested.

Here are pictures of the ginko up the street, back view , and side view as you can see they cut on it, the power co. A lady that lives up the street said she has lived here 50 years and that tree, was always there. Her little boy then took the leaves for show and tell and sold them for 25 cents to the other kids.
{{gwi:472559}}
{{gwi:472560}}

I see a lot of ginkgos with co-doms. It's hard to believe with their slow growth rate that people can't keep up with the development of these and prune for branch structure.

My neighbor has what I think is a big leaf maple (unusual leaf shape) leaves aren't they big but bigger than a red maple, stuck between a holly tree and telephone pole. The colors are awesome what is there very choked out tree although its about 5 or 6 feet tall. Probably grew from a seed and somehow survied, its rather shady where it is at. Ok she said she didn't plant it and if I can get it out I can take it and transplant it. Isn't she nice 87 years old. Beautiful yard she works hard in it. You think I could get it out, I heard Maples have a tap root, although the root systems can't be too wide, its skinny right now because of where its at. Its not that great looking but the leaves that it does have are so beautiful right now, every color, red, orange, yellow, brown, mixed a neat array of color

I know you like Maples and not that I have anything against them, but I thought I'd suggest a Serviceberry (Autumn Brilliance is an example), as they don't sucker much, you don't have to worry about roots invading territory. Nice fall color, spring flowers, growth rate is slow/average. Not as large as the maple, however.

http://hort.ufl.edu/trees/AMEGRAB.pdf

What?! A.B.Serviceberries don't sucker much?
Are you kidding me? These trees sucker more than any other tree I can think of. Pretty trees & worthy of planting but high maintenance to trim out the suckers.

Autumn Brilliance SB doesn't sucker one bit...I don't know if that holds true for other areas.

I am working with two landscaping companies getting prices, not too late to plant but getting later. I wonder now that I have really researched the ginko if they really know if its male. They don't fruit for quite some time, I do not want a female for sure. And by the time it might fruit, it would be too late to go back on the company. He said its male but they don't seem to sell well, they have several as well as the other place too? Beautiful tree though.

I might get a Sweet Gum, they get big but my neighbor across the street has one and its so beautiful this year, I loved all the colors. I think thats the tree for me right now. I still love October Glory and have for years, my love of that tree has not wavered. I did look at serveral others including service berry, need shade not sure how much shade they provide.

I have a small young 4yrs mimosa I was going to get ride of but they say let it go a few more years that it just might be not ready to flower. Its not yet.

thanks for all the help