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nancy_barginear

Please ID These Twelve Oaks

Nancy Barginear
16 years ago

Below are pictures of oak leaves from trees growing in our yard. I live in East Texas, on the western edge of the Big Thicket, and we have many different varieties of oak. Our yard was forest a few years ago, and all the trees are native. The oaks grow among pines, magnolias, dogwoods, redbuds, elm, yaupon, holly, persimmon, osage orange, and hickories (including pecan). We even have an occasional warty, thorny "toothache" tree, with its leaves used by Native Americans to alleviate pain.

I can't tell one oak from another, except for live oak, which we don't have.

I'm hoping that someone will be able to tell me what kind of oak trees we have.

Oak Leaf #1

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Oak Leaf #2

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Oak Leaf #3

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Oak Leav #4

The oak below is my favorite. It has beautiful scalloped leaves that used to turn beet red in the fall. I have watched it grow from a small sapling. It also leafs out red in the spring, turning to a beautiful chartreuse color before getting darker.

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Oak Leaf #5

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Oak Leaf #6

All the leaves have fallen off this tree, so I had to pick one up off the ground.

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Oak Leaf #7

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Oak Leaves #8

These two leaves came from the same tree. Many of the leaves are like the picture on the left.

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Oak Leaves #9a and #9b

These leaves are from two different trees, and all the leaves are long and thin, like these.

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Oak Leaves #10

I think these are from the same tree.

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Oak Leaves #11

These leaves are very large, and I had to reduce them considerably.

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Oak Leaves #12

The leaves on this tree are grouped together as shown.

{{gwi:468349}}

Your help in identifying these oaks will be much appreciated!

Thanks,

Nancy

Comments (29)

  • bengz6westmd
    16 years ago

    Wish I had more time since this is a good challenge, but I'll try the most obvious ones.

    #3 Shumard or Nuttall oak
    #4 E White or maybe Swamp chestnut oak
    #5 Maybe Post oak
    #6 Pin or Scarlet oak
    #8 Maybe Water oak
    #9 Southern Red oak
    #10 Water oak
    #12 Maybe Laural oak

  • lucy
    16 years ago

    Completely off topic (sort of), but have you seen the beautiful old plantation house outside of New Orleans called 'Twelve Oaks'? There are huge old oaks lining the walkway to the house. Gorgeous!

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  • quercus_macrocarpa
    16 years ago

    I'd say that #4 could be a natural hybrid between Swamp Chestnut Oak (Quercus michauxii) and White Oak (Q. alba). 9a/b are Willow Oak (Q. phellos), definitely not Southern Red (Q. falcata). 12 is Water Oak (Q. nigra). 11 possibly Nuttall Oak (Q. nuttalli). 6 appears to be Southern Red Oak (Q. falcata). 10 Water Oak (Q. nigra).

  • alabamatreehugger 8b SW Alabama
    16 years ago

    I think #'s 1, 2 , and 9 are also Quercus nigra (Water oak).

  • kman04
    16 years ago

    While it's very difficult to try and give a tree ID from one leaf, and especially Oaks, since their leaves can vary a great deal, even on the same branch, I'll give it a shot.

    #1 The wedge shaped base, few awns, with the short petiole really make this one confusing, since just about any species that could fit isn't native to your area, so I'm going with a hybrid involving one of the narrow leafed Oaks native to your area, like Quercus incana(Bluejack Oak), Q. phellos (Willow Oak), or Q. hemisphaerica (Darlington Oak) and Q. pagoda (Cherrybark Oak).
    #2 Possibly a leaf from a vigorous branch on Q. hemisphaerica or even Q. nigra (Water Oak) or possibly a hybrid involving one or both of these Oaks.
    #3 Looks most like Q. pagoda to me.
    #4 Looks most like Q. michauxii (Swamp Chestnut Oak), but from your description it sounds more like Q. alba (White Oak) which can have some leaves with this kind of lobing, but it's not typical.
    #5 Q. stellata (Post Oak)
    #6 Q. texana/nuttallii (Nuttall Oak)
    #7 Another Odd leaf which is hard to pin down without more information. I'd bet it's most likely a hybrid involving Q. hemisphaerica or Q. nigra and another Oak, quite possibly Q. texana/nuttallii
    #8 Q. sinuata var. sinuata/durandii Durand Oak
    #9 Again looks like a hybrid involving either Q. phellos, Q. incana, or Q. hemisphaerica and another Oak, most likely Q. texana/nuttallii. I also wouldn't be surprised if those 2 leaves are from different trees.
    #10 Again they look like they're from different trees. I'd guess the one on the left is a member of the White Oaks(section Quercus) and most likely Q. boyntonii (Boynton Oak) and the one on the right is Q. nigra (Water Oak) a member of the Red or Black Oaks (section Lobatae).
    #11 From what I can see of the bud, I'm going with Q. pagoda (Cherrybark Oak).
    #12 Q. nigra (Water Oak)

    If you can manage to get photos of the entire trees, twigs(especially first year twigs), end buds, and of branches (with many leaves visible) then I(and others) could give more accurate ID's.

  • bengz6westmd
    16 years ago

    I agree w/others on #3 -- Cherrybark oak.

    #11 tho, still doesn't look like it has enough lobes for Cherrybark, like #3 does. If #11's leaves are huge, might be Black oak "shade" leaves.

    I agree w/others on #12 now too -- Water oak.

  • treeguy123
    16 years ago

    > #1 Water Oak (Quercus nigra) Chance of a immature water oak leaf from vigorous shoots or under the canopy. (could be a hybrid oak such as #7)
    > #2 Water Oak (Quercus nigra) Pretty good chance of a immature water oak leaf from vigorous shoots or under the canopy.
    > #3 Cherrybark Oak (Quercus pagoda) That's a Cherrybark Oak because of the lobes are distinct.
    > #4 White Oak (Quercus alba)
    > #5 Post Oak (Quercus stellata)
    > #6 Nuttall oak (Quercus texana) Looks similar to Cherrybark Oak but I think it looks more like Nuttall oak.
    > #7 Need acorn picture and other things if ID wanted, might be a hybrid oak.
    > #8 Lacey Oak (Quercus laceyi)
    > #9 & 9b Willow oak (Quercus phellos) Both are an immature Willow oak leaf from vigorous shoots or under the canopy.
    > #10 Water Oak (Quercus nigra) Both are Water Oak.
    > #11 Cherrybark Oak (Quercus pagoda) Narrowed down to Cherrybark and Likely to be a understory leaf off the oak and that's why it is bigger.
    > #12 Water Oak (Quercus nigra) those are Water Oak.

  • alabamatreehugger 8b SW Alabama
    16 years ago

    Water oak leaves vary depending in the age of the tree and the amount of sunlight it gets. All of the leaves in my picture below are from Q.nigra. As the trees get older they have the more typical ducks foot shape, but younger trees can have almost any shape. I think #'s 1, 2, 7, 8, 9, 10, and 12 are all water oak. Southeast Texas is very similar to my area of southwest Alabama and Water oak is the dominant oak in many areas.

    Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:468321}}

  • treeguy123
    16 years ago

    #8 is likely a Lacey Oak (Quercus laceyi) because of the unique indention on the apex and they can have many lobes to no lobes or a mix of lobes and no lobes.(see link below)
    #9a could likely be a Water Oak instead of a Willow Oak but #9b is highly likely a Willow Oak (Quercus phellos) because of its narrow shape.

    Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:468323}}

  • treeguy123
    16 years ago

    Well then again, looking closer, I think #8 might be some odd Water Oak leaves, because Lacey Oak has a longer leaf stem than the #8 picture. But #9b still looks like a Willow Oak.

  • quercus_macrocarpa
    16 years ago

    I still think that 4 is most likely a natural hybrid between Q. alba and Q. michauxii. Are there any others like it in the vicinity?

  • Nancy Barginear
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    No, quercus, there are none like it in our yard. But we are surrounded by woods, so a squirrel could have planted this tree. It is now producing acorns for the first time -- big, elongated, and very shiny deep brown. They look like they have been waxed or varnished. It was such a pretty little sapling. It is very close to our house, and my DH wants to cut it down. I can't bear to see that happen. It is tall and very straight, now about 4 inches in diameter with a pretty bark. I have kept the bottom third of all our trees free of lateral growth. I thought it might be a chestnut or chinkapin oak. It could well be a hybrid.
    Could it be a white oak?

  • quercus_macrocarpa
    16 years ago

    Could you post a picture of the acorn? If there are any still around, I'd personally love to try to grow one or two.

    It could be a pure white oak, even with sinuses that narrow. The pink emerging/red autumn leaves definitely sound like Q. alba. But I'm still betting it's a Beadle Oak (Q. alba X michauxii).

    Whatever you do, don't let your husband cut that tree down. A healthy white oak is the tree that's the most impervious to storm damage that I've ever seen. Your house will be fine.

  • quirkyquercus
    16 years ago

    9 and 9b look nothing like willow oak to me. jouvenile leaves or otherwise. Try again.

  • quercus_macrocarpa
    16 years ago

    9 a/b is clearly a willow oak. I grew up in an area where they were the most common tree, and at least half of the juvenile trees had leaves with at least one "finger."

  • treeguy123
    16 years ago

    Willow Oak juvenile foliage or leaves off suckers can have lobes.
    I also had a small Willow oak, and every leaf had many lobes before they recently over the years all turned to no lobes. I thought it was a water oak before all the leaves took on the typical Willow Oak leaf form.
    Young trees, fast growing suckers, or shaded foliage can have lobes even though mature trees do not. The leaf 9b and maybe 9a was probably pulled off a sucker from the trunk of a Willow Oak or off a young willow oak.

  • quirkyquercus
    16 years ago

    No sorry they aren't willow oaks.
    I don't know what they are but they aren't q. phellos.
    I'd place money on it.
    The leaves don't even have the pointy tip.

  • Nancy Barginear
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    Here's a picture of the acorns from tree #4

    {{gwi:468351}}

  • quercus_macrocarpa
    16 years ago

    The acorns are shaped more like white oak, but I'm still betting on a hybrid. Are the caps more warty or imbricate?

  • MissSherry
    16 years ago

    #4 leaves and acorns look enough like my bluff oaks/q. austrina to be one, but my map doesn't show it as occurring naturally any further west than Mississippi. Still, I'm at the northern edge of the natural q. virginiana range, and you don't see it growing naturally around here, but my neighbor planted two about ?15 years ago, they've grown pretty big, and they must be making acorns that the squirrels are planting on my property, because I found two seedling trees today. At least the foliage sure looks like juvenile live oak leaves. Maybe somebody planted a bluff oak near you, and the squirrels are bringing them to your place.
    Sherry

  • kman04
    16 years ago

    #1, #2, #7, #9a, #10 and #12 could all be various Water Oak leaves, if they were taken off of young trees or vigorous growths on older trees etc, but if these are mature leaves on decent sized trees (30' tall and larger) then I'd stick with my original guesses. There's 3 or 4 short petioled narrow leafed species of Oak(both toothed and non-toothed) in East Texas and in several areas I've seen, they appear to readily hybridize and often times younger vigorous trees as well as vigorous growth on older trees can often times resemble each other. That's why photos of the buds and acorns can really narrow these down, since these characteristics are more stable.

    #4 is White Oak, although I agree the leaf shape and leaf texture looks more like Swamp Chestnut Oak, but those acorns don't show any real sign of Swamp Chestnut Oak.

    #8 Can't be Lacey Oak, because it's only native out in West Texas and no where near "the Big Thicket" area, unless someone planted it. It also usually has blue-green foliage (but not 100%) which has a waxy look to it.

  • quercus_macrocarpa
    16 years ago

    #4's acorns definitely show the size of Swamp Chestnut Oak. I'm still saying it's a Beadle Oak.

    Did the tree grow noticeably faster than most oaks?

  • Nancy Barginear
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    I can't answer that question quercus as I never thought about it or paid any attention to different growth rates of the oaks. #4 is the only tree I paid attention to, because it was such a pretty thing. It did grow pretty fast in the past few years. That could be because we had the pines removed, which afforded a lot more sunlight for the remaining trees.

    Oh, by the way, the bark on #4 is a little shaggy, on a small scale. More like eyelash fringe -- nothing like shagbark hickories, though.

    We had what I think was a gigantic, very old white oak on the other side of the house, about 100 feet or more away. It was very old - around 200-300 years old. I stopped counting rings at 260. It had a huge trunk and an enormous canopy. I never saw any acorns beneath it. The leaves were very big, and it provided lots of shade in the summer and lots of dead leaves in the fall. In our area, oaks are subject to getting holes in the bottom of the trunk, and this one had a big one. We even had a family of Indian Runner snakes living in the hole for a while, until we ran them out with mothballs. Sadly, though, with Hurricane Rita, we lost our beloved tree. The bottom of the trunk and the hole are still there. I've been trying to figure out how to get rid of it. We may have to hire someone with a stump grinder to grind it down. It's really the hole I want to eliminate. Ever since I saw those black periscope-like heads of the snakes coming up out of it, I always think about them when I pass that stump.

  • bengz6westmd
    16 years ago

    Wish the caps on the acorns were shown. They do seem alittle longer, larger & darker brown than usual E W oak (local ones here are alittle lighter, more buff colored), tho within its variability. Dark, varnished brown is typical of rock & swamp chestnut oak acorns.

  • quercus_macrocarpa
    16 years ago

    Did the 260 year-old tree have more deeply-lobed leaves?

    My guess is that this tree may well be a descendant of that one, albeit with some Q. michauxii DNA thrown in. While the acorn shape definitely says Q. alba, I've never seen any anywhere near that large. I agree that the caps will be very telling.

  • Nancy Barginear
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    I probably can rustle up some caps. Let me check it out.
    They had separated from the acorns but were lying on the ground.

    Nancy

  • alabamatreehugger 8b SW Alabama
    16 years ago

    Show a couple more leaves from it as well. It could be this one leaf is an odd ball.

  • Nancy Barginear
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    This tree has very pretty leaves with scalloped edges.

  • Nancy Barginear
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    It rained here, so I guess the caps got washed away. I couldn't find any. I'll pick a few more leaves from Tree #4, but it will have to wait until after T-Day tomorrow. Happy Thanksgiving All!