? namely for but not limited to Ken

14 years ago

Hi Ken, I remember you posting about transplanting native cherry trees in late fall after they are dormant, but now I can't seem to find that particular post. I have a few native cherry and plum trees growing in bad spots that I would like to move. When is the absolute best time to do this, i.e. inflict the least amount of transplant shock? And what is the ideal size tree to move? I assume the smaller the better but could you give me a better idea in terms of caliber and height? I really enjoy your input AND opinions on trees! Farmer Anne

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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
14 years ago
hi farmer ...

next two weeks prime time ... get er done ... or as soon as the soil thaws in spring.. note date on pic ...

pic below ....

i go up to about 1.5 caliper ... as that is within my physical ability with a shovel and pruners.. and saw ...

i have sand.. so its not all that hard.. start a circle about 3 feet out... so that by the time you get it out and then trim up the roots ... you have something like the pic ...

dig the new hole first .... then the tree... get it back in the ground asap .... water it thoroughly and properly.. mulch.. and be responsible for all water next season .. it must remain damp.. but never sodden ...

this works for all trees.. and conifers.. and shrubs .... in MY Z5 ...

thanks for the kind words .... but NEVER limit your post to my response ... i do screw up every now and then ...

good luck

ken

PS: sharpen your shovel.. you will be surprised at the effect ...

{{gwi:325678}}
brandon7 TN_zone7
14 years ago
Here's a couple of things that might help with your project. The first (see below) is a rootball size chart to give you some idea of how big your tree's rootball needs to be, and the second (see link) is a set of instructions that covers many aspects of transplanting trees and shrubs.

Here is a rough/generic rootball size guide for transplanting trees and shrubs. Soil type, tree species, and other factors are not taken into account, but it will give you an idea:

For trunk diameter below 1/2", multiply the diameter by 20 to get approximate rootball diameter.
For trunk diameter between 1/2" and 1", multiply the diameter by 18 to get approximate rootball diameter.
For trunk diameter between 1" and 1-1/2", multiply the diameter by 16 to get approximate rootball diameter.
For trunk diameter between 1-1/2" and 2-1/2", multiply the diameter by 14 to get approximate rootball diameter.
For trunk diameter between 2-1/2" and 4", multiply the diameter by 12 to get approximate rootball diameter.

Here are guidelines for rootball depth:

For a rootball with a diameter of 1', depth should be approximately 8".
For a rootball with a diameter of 2', depth should be approximately 1'.
For a rootball with a diameter of 3', depth should be approximately 15".
For a rootball with a diameter of 4', depth should be approximately 18".

Here is a link that might be useful: Planting a Tree or Shrub
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where's Ken when you need him - nowhere!
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Comments (29)
Ho, well, I am replying in a good mood (I have intense mood swings with this project). Couple of weeks ago, during the rat invasion, I was quite a bit less sanguine and to say I am on a steep learning curve is the understatement of the century. But yes, as it happens, all well on the seed front.....although inevitably, I have (again) been forced to admit that all the rest of my family were right and I was wrong. The preppers and clearers (all of them) have been smirking - particularly when a felled tree landed in the centre of a massive newly planted bulb colony........ Nevertheless, there are many foxgloves, hesperis, campanulas, myosotis, welsh poppies.....and other common, but tough and prolific plants, in various parts of the woods....and 25 Crown Imperials. The soil is amazing - it really is. True, it is a bit stony and tree-rooty, but it has also been fallow for over 50 years with a lush cover of weeds and leaves. The narcissi were the stoutest plants I have ever seen.....and the foxgloves are going to be head-high Hugely limited by having crap machinery (used to gardening in tiny spaces, we spent all our money on beautiful German knives, Japanese secateurs, Swedish axes - yah know, gorgeous stuff but hopeless for the task ahead).......but hey, adaptability is surely a gardening byword.....I have spent my entire gardening life in a fever of insane ambition which inevitably means crashing and burning on a regular basis. Yeah, we are enjoying ourselves....and I have tree seed germination too. The teapot is sadly depleted.
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Ken, you were right!
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Comments (19)
We who live in the 8-9 growing zones are pushing reality is it.....but when we do it with containers, we have a chance to hedge our bets. We can push the limit, by moving with the sun. It keeps me busy, of course. And when something looks really bad, I try to give it a more moderate location. But surprisingly enough, the ones I'm having the problems with are the ones with a lot of shade and not much sun. That was the case with the one hosta which succumbed to southern blight, my lovely The Razor's Edge. It grossed me out having to bag it and throw it into the kitchen garbage which is collected tomorrow. I picked it up like you would doggy poop in the city, and never touched the pot at all. And I'll throw in a picture of my area reserved for the plantaginea offspring. The space gets a good bit of morning sun, and then the long rays of the afternoon sun as well. I patrol the area because our lot is not laid out according to the cardinal directions, just a hair off. When the first day of autumn, about Sept 21, arrives, I always mark the shadow pattern, where the sun rises and sets, because that is the true east/west for my location. The hottest spot in my garden is along our northern privacy fence. That is for the summertime. In the wintertime, that area, which is about 22 feet wide, is in total shade. I could (and plan to) place some of my hosta (in containers) along that strip of land but against the foundation which is enclosed crawl space. My original thought of locating the dwarf or minis in a strip I call the "allee" (alley I guess) turns out to be too shady, too dry, and not enough air circulation. Where we need to avoid humidity and heat, we must have air circulation or the southern blight can find its way into my garden. I know that the original hosta that I bought were planted in mostly sun up in Massachusetts, zone 5b or now 6a. I did not see them blooming, but my DH sent pictures of the plantaginea, which started my obsession with fragrant hosta. Ken, you say to throw them on the driveway, and now you copping out as a "crazy man?" No way. I remember Bruce Banyai saying that he tried everything to get his Aphrodites to bloom, including scraping the roots. Which is just about the same as throwing them on the driveway, right? Or dragging them across rough cement? So I realize that I've babied my hosta way too much. And today at the hardware store they wanted to know what I was doing with all the mulch and I said HOSTA....every one of those ladies....there were four of them....were familiar with HOSTA. And I learned that the local big garden that is so popular, Bellingrath Gardens, has its CHRISTMAS open house and tour, and that featured in their GREENHOUSES, are BLOOMING HOSTA. I hope no one takes exception to my shouting, but it is worth getting excited about it. Guess that this Christmas I'll be headed to Bellingrath with my camera to document the event and share it. I'll also have to call the gardener there (the one who does the greenhouses anyway, they have so many)and see if they are the folks who ordered a lot of hosta from Naylor Creek last year. Gary said I was not the only Mobile buyer, which intrigues me. I'd love to find another hosta lover here in town. Wouldn't that be great!!! You might take it for granted that other folks grow hosta and you can chat over the back fence about them, but HA, not around here. I said my goal was not to create a display or tour garden, but for my friends, that may be what I have to do.....as well as giving away some hosta when I run out of room and cannot say no to a pretty plant! Here is some of my fragrant hosta where they get more morning sun. The nearest ones are not the fragrants, they are beyond the sasanqua out there closer to the 7' high chain link fence. Once my star jasmine fills in, no more chainlink showing....
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Where's Ken in Adrian???
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Comments (5)
let me think up something witty .. and i will get back to you tomorrow ... of all my friends here.. flora missed me ... i figured she would have enjoyed the time off ... lol ... the format change is a bit baffling ... but its dead of winter in MI ... down in single digits at night ... and whether C or F .... single digits is freakin cold ... and of course i mean F .... days vary in the teens to mid 20s ... frankly its suicide time in MI ... lol .. i just dont have a lot to say ... ken
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Ken, do you still think it has a chance?
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Comments (6)
Hi Ken, we're neighbors, sort of, kind of, I'm about a 45 minutes to an hour north of you in Orion Twp, close to the Palace. Here's a link to my other post, sorry, should have just added it originally. Is it too late for my blue spruce post. They were planted last October. My husband has a fractured back and can't lift over 25 lbs., we hired someone the nursery referred us to and planted 5 trees in total. The others are doing well so far but we're going to make sure to dig out some of the high dirt on them and mulch everything this weekend. After reading up a bit and seeing what I saw out there, ie planted low and burlap sack on side, I suspect we made a big mistake trusting a referral, but no sense in crying over spilled milk now, we just really want to save this tree. The dirt seems dry now and the growth on the other trees is a little saggy compared to after the last rain. Oh, no buds, not a one on this tree at all. The plants across the street are about 3-4 years old and have done well up till now. Thought it was salt damage at first from the trucks, but every house on that side has evergreens and they are all burned like that, even one's away from the road. It's weird.
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pineresin
14 years ago
The tree in Ken's photo might survive, but it would have done a lot better, if it had been given a root ball twice the diameter it has there

Resin
farmeranne
Original Author
14 years ago
Thanks for the advice Ken, Brandon and Resin. Especially helpful to know I should be digging 3' out. Moved some 1" diameter wild plums for the first time last spring and although most of them made it, they are still struggling, and I'll bet it is because I didn't get enough root. Unfortunately I have clay which makes the digging tough. What I wouldn't give for sand...
A little off topic but here in my parts the fall foliage is spectacular this year, especially the wild cherries. Could this be due to the exceptionally cool summer we've had in the Midwest? Thanks again, Farmer Anne
marcindy
14 years ago
Hi farmeranne - I am curious, which native cherries are you transplanting, do you know their latin name?
terrene
14 years ago
I am curious too which native cherries have nice fall color. I have numerous Prunus serotina, from saplings to a mature 50 foot specimen, and most of the leaves have dried up and fallen off the trees without much display.
ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
14 years ago
nice presumptions resin ..

it did just fine ...

more is always better ... sometimes things just dont work out ....

the whole point of the pic.. is to horrify peeps who havent seen something like that before.. and get them to overcome their own fears.. and just do the job ...

its all about actually doing the job.. rather than being in fear of failure ...

ken
farmeranne
Original Author
14 years ago
"I am curious, which native cherries are you transplanting..." Thanks for asking this question Marcindy and Terrene. Not entirely sure, same question has been plaguing me. My Petersen field guide doesn't help. The leaves with the gorgeous golden fall color look like Prunus serotina leaves (more thin and elongated than rounded), but the bark on these trees looks different than the bark on Serotinas I see growing on edge of woodlands. Pin cherry? I'll try and post some photos tomorrow a.m.
scotjute Z8
14 years ago
I find it very hard to get much more root on anything than what Ken has shown here when transplanting from the wild. Usually however I limit myself to small stuff under 2'.
tsugajunkie z5 SE WI ♱
14 years ago
I have a Prunus sargentii that gets a very good orange-red fall color. The only downside is that the leaves soon drop after attaining their peak brilliance.

tj
farmeranne
Original Author
14 years ago
Finally the pics I promised of the native cherries with the nice fall foliage:
Prunus serotina leaves & bark, the prettiest:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fredandcharlie/4040294155/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fredandcharlie/4040295387/

Prunus pensylvanica (pin cherry)??? (my guess):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fredandcharlie/4040297969/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fredandcharlie/4041044270/

Here is the Prunus serotina I transplanted yesterday:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fredandcharlie/4041053806/

It was located on a 60 degree slope (not much flat land around here) and excrutiatingly diffult to dig. I didn't not get as much root as in Ken's pic, but I got a lot more than I did when digging trees last year. There weren't as many lateral roots as Ken's tree. The thickest one was central & taproot-like, anchoring the tree into the hillside. I went down as deep as I could and got quite a bit. Farmer Anne
ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
14 years ago
mine were not stolen from the wild ... they appear all over my 5 acres.. if i let them ...

i have pure yellow sand..

the serotina are bird dropped .. onto heavy mulch around conifers .... and tend to put roots under the mulch.. but not into the hot dry sand .... which is why i mulch them lightly after transplant.. then eventually let the mulch disappear ... so the roots will go down ...

i like the size you choose.. a bit smaller than the one i moved.. i prefer to go smaller.. but apparently the one in the pic... got a few extra years on me ...

if i were hunting for such.. with the intent to move them.. i would search for straight trunked... and well crotched trees.. some of these cherries dont understand either concept .. lol

good luck farmer

ken

? namely for but not limited to Ken

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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

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