BTW, as for Lithocarpus henryi...I will say that the superior Howard County tree is being experimentally rooted. I will update people with results when they are known next summer. There may only be enough to distribute to nurseries at first but at least a protocol for cutting propagation will be established. Having now seen several more DC area Lithocarpus last weekend, I can attest to its superior leaf size. Look on the bright side, at least someone out there is trying to select a superior form of it. (i.e., me)

In any case Cistus periodically offers it so I believe when summers in Portland are warm enough they have a local seed source. Just be patient, it will reappear. Or maybe he has a contact in the south or whatnot. And of course unless Woodlanders is saying they lost their seed source, they will have it again. It crops irregularly (believe me, I know having a checked a grove of them for acorns for serveral years) so that might be why they have delays in offering it.

my understanding is that cistus does NOT have their own local seed source/cutting material for the lithocarpus and that (recently at least) they were using seeds/seedling material from an east coast source. there is apparently variation in leaf size between individuals---my brothers tree in salem, oregon from woodlanders many moons ago can have leaves up to a foot long---as does my tree from the same source near the southern oregon coast. some of the "newer" stuff (at least as young plants) seem to have much smaller leaves---but this may be only a juvenile phase (hopefully).

Thanks George. The Lithocarpus I was comparing it with were mature ones. It's not a huge difference, but maybe 8-9 inches versus 11-12 inches. They also might be a bit glossier.

Do the ones in Oregon you know of set seed? It seems the growing season in the mid-Atlantic has to be just right, and they ripen just before the first freezes. They probably can't cross with your native tanoaks because it turns out they are actually not closely related, so several of the Asian ones would be needed. (and I suppose L. edulis might actually be more common there in collections)

my brother's tree has occasionally produced fruit but perhaps the lack of another tree for cross pollination and/or the relatively cool and dry summers end of with a very small number of viable looking "fat" acorns (none of which have germinated)---though lots of "babies" that never develop any size at all. OTOH, my brother's quercus rhysophylla tree used to produce a fair number of viable seeds (possibly hybrids with nearby cultivated red oaks). sadly, that tree is long gone---got too big and my brother was afraid it might fall over on his house.. David, don't know if you're interested , but i may have some extra seeds of the extremely rare indian horsechestnut (aesculus indica) from my tree to share---if you'd like to try some......

This post was edited by georgeinbandonoregon on Wed, Oct 29, 14 at 12:48

David and George, I've shortened your names but you know who you are. I would rather try a more eastern source, and the hardier the better. I'm hoping I can find a source, hairmetal told me that the tree may be able to grow here, and may be the closest to an evergreen oak I may be able to grow here in zone 6. But really I have so many trees, and have every other tree I ever wanted, so I will get over it, if I can't have it but, I will of course check next season to see what if anything has changed in the availability.

How hardy is Lithocarpus edulis?

I am interested in the wild varieties of Japanese Cherry blossom trees.

Oshima Cherry (Prunus speciosa)
"Clove Cherry" Choujizakura ä¸Âå­Âæ¡ (Prunus apetala)

Unlike many of the overly hybridized cherry blossom cultivars, the wild species can pollinate each other (genetic diversity as opposed to clonal propagation), be grown from seed, and are very vigorous. The blossoms may not be as spectacular, but it is much more natural.

There is absolutely no one that sells the plants or seed outside Japan, and even searching the internet in Japanese, and sending an inquiry, I still did not find anything. The wild varieties can be found growing in the Japanese forest, but apparently are not used as ornamental plants. Almost all the cherry blossoms being sold in Japan are only of 3-5 varieties.

Pseudotsuga marcrocarpa - Big Cone Douglas Fir. Saw these in southern California on hot side of coastal mountains at 2-3 thousand feet. Beautiful conifer for those in hotter drier climates.
If you find them for sale please send me a message. Thanks.

Mail Order Natives has Stewartia malacondendron- small pint size but healthy, now if I could find S. ovata, natives but almost impossible to find.

This post was edited by frank1965 on Thu, Jan 29, 15 at 16:52

Zelkova serrata 'Spring Grove' 2-4"
Syringa pekinensis 'Sundak' Copper Curls Lilac 2-4", 10'CL
Calycanthus floridus 'Michael Lindsay' any

Dalbergia hupehana is now available from Sheffields. Rather expensive, but, less expensive than flying to China to look for it. I just hope it's the right thing.

The experimental rooting of the Howard Co. Lithocarpus failed, albeit for non-horticultural reasons. I'm going to gingerly ask the wholesaler to try again, so, just hold your breath until spring 2017 instead of spring 2016. (Advanced Horticulture: Not for the Impatient. Ought to be the motto of our hobby.)

1.)'Darling 311' American Chestnut.........more blight resistant than Chinese Chestnut......is awaiting review by federal agencies before being released to the public due to it being a GMO.

2.)Berberis canadensis

3.)Betula uber

4.)Hierochloe odorata

Hierochloe odorata is available from quite a few mail-order sources.

OMG! This thread might have answered a long standing mystery for me.

There's a small area of my lawn that has always emitted an oddly sweet odor when cut. I'd assumed it must be a broad-leaved weed but could never find any. I now wonder if there's a patch of this Hierochloe and that is what I'm smelling. When I have time, which might not be for a while, I'm going to go look more carefully.

David, I wonder if a superior form of L. henryi can't just be grafted onto seedling rootstock.

L. henryi is really easy to grow from seed. No stratification or scarification needed. One of my 2 L. Henrys:

Ordinarily oaks are grafted, yes, but I've heard/read from more than one reliable source that Lithocarpus root, relatively easily.

It would be nice to graft them too but most seed seems to go seedlings, since the market generally just wants the plant, period, and they command relatively high value. (though you generously offered to give one to hairmetal IIRC) The issue with the Howard County trees is getting viable seed has been such a hassle: they seem to bear on alternate years, the deer and squirrels and possibly some large bird go after them, some are even empty which I think is due to an insect, etc. etc.

I will go back there in October to try to collect either scions or seeds.

So I get to replace one my list, now that I have hardy rosewood seeds on the way.

I'm adding Bretschneidera! Though zn 7 is a best case scenario, I suppose it could be if the range once went further north and west into China than the current areas, which are very mild.

...Howard County trees...

Does anyone have any photos of the so-called Howard County Lithocarpus??

I think 'acorns' need to be picked off the tree and probably around early October for best viability. Although I've been able to start some that I found on the ground -- but they are probably more prone to insect and mouse damage.

dave

I would like a DED resistant elm but they seem to be almost impossible to come by in scandinavia. Also I want a "Loiko" walnut, a soviet cultivar that is extremely winter hardy.

They aren't much to look at (in a photograph) because they are in a crowded, mixed woodlot of various rare species planted by a collector years ago. Planted on a grid in fact. The current owners (lightly) maintain and allow access to the collection although I don't think they want to location posted on the internet. When I'm there I usually bring some loppers and try to cut out any vines trying to strangle rare stuff. Other things on this crowded 1/2 acre include Albizia coreana and various Conifers like Juniperus rigida and IIRC Pinus wallichiana and Taxodium ascendens. A few years ago a couple of the smaller plants were dug and donated to one of the area's public gardens. It isn't a "dead" collection exactly, it's just a very dormant one.

I did once take a picture, which I have somewhere, of how big the leaf on the "select" clone is, but probably wouldn't be able to find it easily.

I got a Wollemia in a 3 inch pot for about 25 bucks from a local garden center this year. They also had Vietnam cypress, it was even cheaper. Both had been produced by Iseli nursery in Oregon. A few of the other things talked about here I have seen on the local market before also. The Lithocarpus henryi I am growing came from the MsK nursery at the Kruckeberg Botanic Garden, but others have sold it too. Colvos Creek nursery closed in recent years but the aforementioned Cistus as well as forestfarm are still at it, these are the kind of places that get and sell hobbyist trees out of botanic gardens, private gardens and wholesale nurseries run by people with the same plant geek orientations. Part of the game is to maintain changing inventories with rotating casts of characters, so that any given kind of tree may be on the market from more than one source for a time and then disappear, to be not seen again until there is a good seed crop or something else happens to bring it back into the picture.

davidrt28, if it's the same sweet smell I know of, it must be Hierochloe becuase it contains coumarin. We have Melilotus albus here and the flowers contain coumarin, so on dry days the sweet smell can be sensed from long distances. Probably my favorite flower smell.

One tree I've been wanting for a long time is Chamaecyparis lawsoniana 'Imbricata Pendula' grafted to disease resistant rootstock.

Pinus lumholtzii and Quercus taramahura are two trees I've searched for over the past couple of years, but I bet Quercus taramahura is not cold hardy at all. I would love to see a Quercus taramahura X Quercus marilandica, that would be a super cool oak.

I also think Quercus guyavaefolia is a very nice looking yellow leaf back evergreen oak.

Dave in NoVA:

I know you said you had some Q. myrsinifolia seedlings/saplings (I may be interested, stay tuned), do you also have Lithocarpus henryi to sell/trade?

You say they're easy to grow from seed - but where did you GET the seed?

hair: I have no lithocarpus seedlings left. I got the seed from a private source.

Davidrt28-I might have to get some of that hardy rosewood seed, too. Not that it would influence my decision, but those have any fall color?

Rhodedendron Maximum. Our native eastern tree rhodedendron, no hybrid in it. Rarefind nursery only has the big ones you pick up in their New Jersey nurseries store. I just may dig up a baby or try and get some seed from the woods, but, I don't see many seed trusses on the plants in the wild this year, and I failed at germinating some a couple years ago. I have one that I wild dug years ago, but it is so small. I don't know why they are so hard to grow, the asian hybrids do fine for me. Maybe they need a certain fungi bacteria that I don't have. The potted ones likely have all they need to grow in the pot til planting. Hope someone can help. Poaky1

hairmetal, very unlikely. The Fabaceae are not really known for it.

poaky, I'm sure somewhere on the UMN plantfinder you could find a mail order source of R. maximum. As a native plant it's very politically correct. I know I've seen small ones (not hybrids) at Rarefind but they may or may not currently have them.

True, David. Cladrastis usually colors a nice yellow, at least in good years, and sometimes Redbud and Honeylocust can, but are hit or miss here.

I will try some anyway, but not expect anything.

David, Rarefind was out a month ago, but I'll retry them, and I'll check the Rhodies forum on here, I shoulda thought of that in the first place I guess. Poaky1

Well most nursery's availability cycle is at most twice yearly, so, you could try them again but if they are going to have them again, it might not be until next spring or next fall.

I thought it would be a good time to bump this thread. (Y'all know I do not bump a thread lightly) Feel free to update or add new ones, but long discussions on particular plants would be OT and should occupy a new thread. (like the thousands of posts concerning hardy live oaks!)
In my case I can take Dalbergia hupehana off the list, as Sheffield seed did import it and sell it for a while - might still be listed for all I know. I germinated maybe 5 out of 16 or so seeds...3 died over the first year, now I have 2 that look promising but are still only 3 inches high.

Found out 'Firelight' in Europe is actually not the Long Island NY Hardgrove hybrid, it's a PNW hybrid from a guy named Fred Peste with a similar name. That makes a lot more sense for various reasons. Though I'm still annoyed by rhodo cultivars that go missing, I'm taking that off my list too.

So what I am adding for those 2 subtractions?

1) Bretschneidera sinensis. If it is zone 7 hardy, the pictures make me think it would be the showiest zone 7 hardy flowering plant of all by far. Yes it might not be that hardy. But remember most (but not all) Asian plants are hardier than the native range would indicate. To what degree? Of course it varies.

and 2) Pinus lumholtzii. Assuming a zone 7 hardy form can be found. But this is not out of the question: there are Mexican pines in botanical gardens in SE PA. Or even a hardy form of Pinus patula...I'm going to try about 10 seedlings outside, that I ordered at the same time I ordered the rosewood from Sheffield. I saw several "weeping pines" in AU & NZ, and I'm enamored with the way they look in a garden. Basically just want a hardy weeping pine! (not pendulous! that's different) Yes, this species was one of George's picks. He doesn't have to worry about finding a hardy form though!

If I made a list it would just be a bunch of rebuds, japanese maples, and other stuff I can't afford right now LOL.

Logan, do you like the "big leaf" redbud?

I'm not sure that I have seen a "big leaf" redbud. Is it a cultivar or is it a different cercis species?

Cedrus deodara Eisregen, and it's all dcsteg's fault for posting such a great picture.

Just about any Sciadopitys, thanks to the photos on the Conifer forum. Not very many available, and not inexpensive when you do find them.

And the mythical evergreen tree that tolerates wet soil in zone 5b.

A few spelling corrections for above posts, for those trying to find certain plants:

Quercus tarahumara
Dalbergia hupeana
Pseudotsuga macrocarpa
Stewartia malacodendron
Rhododendron maximum

I just abbreviated brandon, just laziness, I do know how to spell it :) Unless there's something above your talking about.

Poaky, above, there was an "e" instead of the second "o" in Rhododendron. No worries, it's just that some people might be trying to search for the term, or, try to use the wrong spelling. We knew what you meant.

Dalbergia hupehana seems to be the archaic, original spelling, used from 1905 until recently. When I first read about this plant in the 1990s, it was in the writings of JC Raulston and he used that spelling. But on the off chance anyone is looking for it unsuccessfully, I'm glad you've offered the currently correct spelling.

Curiously, the not-so-distantly related Bauhinia hupehana has not undergone a similar orthographic modernization. Nor has Litsea hupehana. I'm sure they are all named for the same Monsieur "Hupe" whoever that was.

Yes Logan. There is a giant leaf redbud that forestfarm sells. I think its cercis gigantea or something like that...

I've since got one of the items on my list. davidrt28, you were right. The New England Wildflower Society didn't carry pith pine in 2014, but have since added them. Also, the New Hampshire State Nursery sold them one year.

Haven't been able to get American Beech to get established though...it always dies. :-(

Ed, glad to know my post was helpful. They are pretty darn classy operation, years ago they had natives that nobody else, commercial or non-profit, was offering.

Tlbean, now I know the tree you are talking about. I've seen them at biltmore estate and thought about planting one, but I would rather buy locally than mail order. I guess top on my list of redbuds would be Cercis Canadensis 'Floating Clouds', it's a really nice variegated cultivar. I'm also on look out for 'rising sun', 'merlot', and 'ruby falls'.

I saw ruby falls at Home Depot last year so you might want to check them out this coming season.

Thanks! I usually look at lowes and walmart for the plants that are on sale. Last year I picked up a bunch of loropetalums, a redbud, an abelia, and a black diamond crepe myrtle on sale. I'll be sure to check home depot.

The Hupe in these names refers to Hubei in China.

Yep, and Hubei (province located near the middle of the eastern part of China) is also called Hupeh. I have no idea why they took the H out (or included it in some names, for that matter).

Funny, my first guess was that it was related to the ever shifting sands of Chinese romanization...then I thought, "but so many Chinese plants are actually named after western people, so maybe there was a Mr. Huppe or whatnot".

I hate to stay off topic for this long, but one thing is just bugging me here. Species names are not modified (modernized) unless there was something wrong with the original name to start with (rules about this are given in the ICBN). So, I would guess that hupeana would be the original specific epithet for Dalbergia hupeana.