monsoon, all things being equal, the more fragrance a flower has, the shorter its vase life. The oils and alcohols which create fragrance also heat the petals and cause their early demise, just as sugars in good tasting fruit ferment faster, creating higher levels of ethylene gas, deteriorating the fruit.

I know this will cause a lot of "conversation", but traditionally Austin roses don't have great vase lives. Traditionally, Old Garden Roses don't have great vase lives. What I read in your post is that you want things which will more closely approximate well cared for florist roses. IF I am correct, my two comments above hold true. If not, no problem.

Your selections of Austin roses will be pretty out of balance with your other selections, other than the OGRs. If what you want are the traditional Hybrid Tea type plants, which will be FAIRLY uniform with each other, with longer cutting stems and more single blooms to a stem, stick with traditional HTs.

Abraham Darby is bred from a climber and a floribunda and in our climate, tends to want to BE a climber, or a larger, rangy shrub (if your clippers are sharper). If it's the look you're after, you may want to consider some of the Romantica roses. They tend, generally, to be closer to HT bushes with the old fashioned styles of flowers, where the Austin roses tend, generally, to be more Hybrid Perpetual to Bourbon types of growth. There are places and tastes for each, but, again, what I read in your post is you are thinking of a cutting garden, and with the size and shape of the area, traditional HT bushes will probably maximize your potential supply of flowers and provide a more uniform appearance to the plants.

I can't specifically address the particular modern roses you've listed because I haven't grown them. Nothing wrong with them per se, they just tend not to be my personal taste. I know there are others here who will be able to provide personal experience with all of them, and I will defer to their experience. I do think, though, if you want the Austin roses, put them somewhere they can be worked into a landscape setting and keep this area as your cutting garden. IF, that is what you're thinking.

I grow Yves Piaget in a client's garden in Valencia where it gets half day sun most of the year. It grows and flowers beautifully. The flowers last long enough to have been used in a wedding, wowing everyone in attendance, and they are huge, resembling peonies and smell heavenly. The stems are long and strong enough to please just about any arranger.

Keep in mind that with the intensity of sun and heat where you wish to plant, you probably want at least 30+ petals of pretty good substance for the flowers to last well enough in the bud stage for you to get them before the heat does. Lower petal counts and softer petals are going to blow and burn pretty quickly in the kind of heat you are facing.

I either do grow or have grown most of those, with the exception of 'Archiduchesse Elisabeth d'Autriche' and a couple of the Austins. Most of those are not what I would call "cutting roses," although of course you CAN cut most any rose and it will look good in a vase for a short period. But if you want vases of flowers that last for a week, then the only one on your list I would really recommend as a true cutting rose would be Moonstone, and maybe also Pope John Paul II. I would also second the recommendation for Yves Piaget. Add to that the Grand Dame that Weeks is coming out with this year, which should also meet your requirements. And for a yellow, I'd go with St. Patrick in your area. Radiant Perfume doesn't bloom well, and when it does, they are gone in a day. DO NOT just go to a nursery and pick whatever based on the photos.

The best thing for you to do is to wait until February 5, when your local rose society is having their auction at the LA County Arboretum, at which they will have great prices on some really good roses for your area. Their catalog is not posted yet, but it probably will be on line shortly after xmas.

Kathy

I second Kathy- a great rose for Southern California is St. Patrick. It has long stems and an exceptionally long vase life. I don't recall if it has a scent, but I don't think so. The colors are unlike any other rose, ranging from lime green through yellow to apricot. Very pretty as a bud and fully opened.

Another rose that looks really spectacular in a vase is Gemini. I don't think it has a scent either.

Double Delight has a nice scent, and it lasts for a while as a cut flower.

I don't think people have success with Souvenir de la Malmaison in our climate, but I may be mistaken.

Check the David Austin website to see which of his roses will live in hot climates. The full sun situation in Southern California may be too much for any of the English roses.

You may want to visit Otto and Sons in Fillmore this spring to see what does well in your kind of climate. This is a huge rose nursery and it is just south of a mountain range like you are in Altadena.

Renee

Neither Abraham Darby nor Gertrude Jekyll make good cutting roses.

I don't have much experience with the others on your list.

I recommend Gemini and Memorial Day for long lasting cut flowers. Gemini has no scent but Memorial Day is very fragrant. I have grown Melodie Parfumee but I don't recall it being much better than average as a cut flower. Certainly wasn't worse than average though. Ditto for Double Delight. As for how they do in your area, well our climates are pretty much total opposites, but these are reputed to do well most anywhere.

Oops, the auction for Pacific Rose Society is Sunday, Feb 4 at noon at the LA County Arboretum. I mistakenly said the 5th above. Their brochure shows Always & Forever, Peppermint Splash and Malibu, which would all probably nice cuttings roses for your location.

Hi Monsoon! I'm just a few miles south of you in Pasadena. I have grown some of your "candidates." I can recommend Pope John Paul and Mister Lincoln, both in the garden and in the vase, and I concur with others who have recommended Memorial Day. An altogether excellent rose. For other reds, I suggest you try two of Mister Lincoln's cousins -- Papa Meilland and Oklahoma, and two others, Fire Fighter and Ingrid Bergman.
As far as the Austins are concerned, I don't think you'll have much luck with Falstaff. I certainly did not. That gorgeous red quickly turns a really unattractive bluey maroon in our heat, and the blooms are gone in a day or two. Ditto William Shakespeare 2000. Both Abraham Darby and Gertrude Jekyll (aka Galloping Gertie) reeeeeally reeeeeally want to be climbers here in southern California. And Gertie's thorns are a bit much. On the other hand, I've had excellent success with Heritage, a lovely, fragrant pale pink, and with Lady Emma Hamilton, a fruity soft orange.
Roseseek's recommendation of something from the Romanticas is a good one. Yves Piaget is excellent, as is Rouge Royale. You may also like another Romantica, Liv Tyler (formerly the Comtesse de Provence) a fragrant coral pink.
In the hybrid teas, Just Joey, an apricot, has performed well, as has Betty White and Karl Lagerfeld. Double Delight is pretty and fragrant, but the poor thing is so disease prone that my favorite staffer at the local Armstrong's has nicknamed it "Double Disappointment." And sadly, I don't know anyone locally who's been able to make a go of Malmaison. Hope this helps.

Thank you all for the range of suggestions. I have a st. Patrick and love it. It is a beautiful rose outside and in a vase. Roseseek, I researched romantica roses briefly and you are right, many of them have the similar look of the austin roses I am looking for. I am not too concerned about a uniform look for this area and would plant both the Hybrid teas and the romanticas. Any specific suggestions from the romantica variety? I have an eden climber (in a different area in the yard) which I saw on the list and which I love. Kathy - thanks for the date on the arboretum event in February. One other question: Is it a good idea to buy roses as bareroots?

Monsoon, I am in San Diego inland, so I assume it is a comparable climate to yours. All my roses are grown own-roots and I don't spray and garden organically.

From your list I am growing Mister Lincoln, Pope John Paul II and Moonstone.
Mister Lincoln is very fragrant and has a good form and lasts in the vase. It changes its color from a relatively clear red to a more blue-ish red though, which I like very much but a lot of people see it as a disadvantage.
Pope John Paul II is super fragrant and lasts a decent time in the vase. This rose is completely healthy for me at any time of the year. Highly recommended!
Moonstone is also long lasting but very little fragrance, I don't think it will fit your bill for that reason. Mine is also struggling with rust right now.

I also would recommend to look into Memorial Day. A wonderful pink Hybrid Tea rose, with great scent. The flowers always open to perfection.
Another pink Hybrid Tea that I like a lot is Bewitched. The rose is a working horse in terms of producing flowers and they have great form and fragrance. The blooms are huge! For me the only drawback is that Bewitched gets mildew sometimes. Still I wouldn't be without her.
One David Austin Rose that I don't grow myself, but a friend living close by does is Ambridge Rose (pale apricot). The rose lasts longer than other Austin roses in the vase and the fragrance is super strong. It is Austins famous myrrh fragrance though, which some people love and others don't like at all. I have just posted a photo thread on the Rose Gallery, with a pic of the Ambridge Rose, if you want to have a look:

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/rosesgal/msg120025162726.html?3

Have fun choosing your roses! I am sure you can grow very good cut flowers in the area where you are living. Oh, and please let us know which ones your are deciding to go for at the end!

Christina

There is a Gardens of the World here on the hill which was planted the year it was introduced. I took a bouquet to a friend's house on Thanksgiving and they lasted well over a week. In Encino, it is bullet proof! I've also had excellent performance from Neptune and I agree about Memorial Day. One of the greatest things about may of Tom Carruth's creations (Memorial Day in particular) is how they can hold their foliage all the way to the grond and flower like there is no tomorrow. I would except Stinky Babs from that list, though. In Valencia, it has been severely troubled by mildew and rust.

Another which has done exceptionally in hot places in Valencia is Love and Peace. It took the winds and blistering heat with no difficulties and the flowers have held very well through the extremes. Velvet Fragrance is intensely fragrant and the plant is a horse here. So far (a year and a half) no disease problems. The flowers are quite large and last about a week inside.

Thanks Christina for your suggestions. I loved the looks of Ambridge rose and adore the myrrh fragrance and it seems Memorial day is a keeper. I will post my final selection. Roseseek: Thank you for educating me on roses. I have learned so much. I love the colors of love and peace, although I wish there was a rose with these colors but the petal formations of the antique roses. Also is there a difference in the outcome between planting bare root and non-bare root roses? Since these roses are going to be around for a long time in one's yard, would you suggest buying roses only from a specific grower?

Hi monsoon, thank you! I'm happy I've been able to share some of the knowledge I've discovered and others have shared with me. You're most welcome! Elevating one, elevates us all.

As for buying bare root versus canned, it's personal preference. Typically, bare roots are less expensive, but they do require YOU take care of them until they are at the stage of a well grown canned plant. Canned plants relieve you of that hassle but they do cost quite a bit more. They also permit you pretty much instant gratification. The same suggestions for checking out the development of the plant holds true for both types. If you're paying for a Grade 1 plant, make sure you have that kind of development under the flowers or wrapped in that body bag. If you're OK with planting and caring for bare roots and don't mind doing it, you can save a good deal on them that way. Often, also, your selection is quite a bit better in bare roots than many find in canned plants later on. Since you're seeing the same stock they're going to be planting from, you can often select the "perfect" bare root you want, rather than the left overs which didn't sell they had to plant. Not necessarily a bad thing, just a potential difference between bare root and canned. Often, it IS a lot easier just to get it flowering in a can and pop it into a well prepared hole, but it will cost you more.

Buying from one grower? Not necessarily. Presuming the growers you're shopping are all proficient and care for their stock, there should be no difference other than possibly cost and their individual selection. If you have a favorite, support them and give them as much of your business as you can. Much of the time, they're buying the same plant from the same sources, so there honestly is virtually no difference other than how they care for the plants and what they charge for them. Since you're likely to primarily buy patented varieties, they're all going to be either Star, J&P or Week's produced plants, perhaps a few from Austin, (though he traditionally doesn't grow them but contracts them out for others to produce), you're going to get the same thing from just about anyone you buy from. As I said, if you know a grower and you like his stuff, support him. Kim

Thank you again for this wealth of information. I am so excited about this project and I promise to report on what I do and how it turns out. Kim, you are so generous with your knowledge and time. Thank you again.

You're welcome monsoon. My pleasre! I'm excited to see what you choose to do. Kim

Any updates here? Which roses do you guys think are best for cutting??

Hi Aaron, it's me again. I wish I had more good cutting roses, but I will mention that Rouge Royale is wonderful for cutting. It lasts well, has longish stems, and a lovely strong scent that wafts all over the place when it's put in a vase. I noticed while glancing above, RR was mentioned 10 years ago. Here's a photo I've posted before, but it's all I have right now. I'm not a great bouquet artist--ha. Diane

Diane that's honestly so pretty! I'm very seriously considering it!!

I'm trying to come up with a red/burgundy/plum that won't completely wash out all my blush colored roses and Rouge Royale looks great, as does Celestial Night, Twilight Zone, Ebb Tide, Dark Desire, Crimson Glory, Liebeszauber, and Red Riding Hood. I love the flower shape in your RR!!

I'm sure there are some Austins that would work too but I'm trying to stay away from them unless I simply have to buy one (I was thinking Munstead Wood). Any thoughts on the other darker roses? I hear Ebb, Twilight Zone, and Celestial Night mentioned all the time, but the contrast might be too high with a light pink.

Also I found a bunch more of your pictures of RR when I googled it--https://www.houzz.com/discussions/1689818/does-anybody-really-grow-rouge-royale they're most of the way down in case you lost them!!

Thanks, Aaron. I guess I do have some more RR photos floating around. Ascot is a good red/burgundy rose which is a Tantau sold by Palatine. Ebb Tide and Twilight Zone are totally dark purple for me, especially TZ. Celestrial Night is more burgundy, though. Then there is my Clown Prince, Wild Blue Yonder. It has both light and dark blooms, though I don't know if in your climate you would get that effect. Heat seems to bring it on. In zone 5b, I would hope hardiness issues wouldn't be a problem, but you can't rule them out. Rouge Royale is a hybrid tea, but mine is very shrub like. I hope you would get this shape, but you might have to winter protect?? Ascot is super hardy. You've probably seen some of the photos below. Diane

The first two photos are Ebb Tide, the third is Twilight Zone. Next is Ascot and finally is Wild Blue Yonder. Diane

Olympiad definitely. It's long lasting, slow to open and looks gorgeous:)

@Diane Brakefield wow Ascot is stunning!! I think you've inspired yet another purchase...once Palatine is back in stock :p It's shocking how much variation Wild Blue Yonder has! I think I'm going to have to go with RR or Ascot though--the color and shape is perfect and I think they'd look so pretty with light colors. Thank you for your expertise and sharing such beautiful pictures!!

also @Diane Brakefield I noticed that heirloom *might* have Sweet Juliet for sale (they show 4 in stock but also say they are no longer growing it): https://www.heirloomroses.com/roses/david-austin-english-roses/sweet-juliettmr.html if that's one you've been after it might be a good way to get it! I purchased one just to be on the safe side.

Aaron, you are a true addict. I know nothing about Sweet Juliet, but now I'm going to check HMF and Heirloom to see what she's like. Thanks for the link. One downside to Ascot is it has no scent, or very little, and in my zone, he's a monster in size. I think in your zone, Ascot would be a little smaller--not small, mind you. Diane

Aaron, I’d be thrilled if you updates on how some of your plants turn out as cutting roses :) We have the same hardiness zone, and my main goal in rose growing at this time is to find the best varieties for cutting in a z5 climate :) since pretty much every Rose flower farmer lives in California so I can‘t really rely on their recommendations

I'm in zone 7 so I can't help for zone 5. My HT's are for 2 purposes. Cutting for bouquets and when there is a rose show in my area, I will exhibit. This is the list of my HT's

Louise Estes

Sunstruck

Ring of fire

Touch of Class

Gemini

Stevens Big Purple

Folklore

Let Freedom Ring

Grande Amore'

Hot Princess

Mavrik

Crystalline

Brinessa (no longer in commerce)

Brinessa

Hot Princess

Ring of Fire

Grande Amore'

Louise Estes

Thanks-perhaps if I am able to afford a high tunnel hoop house in the future, I will be able to grow slightly less hardy varieties 😉

@Madison Post also look at microclimates and winter protection options. I just bought 'Right Rose, Right Place' from Peter Schneider which is all about zone 5 roses. He grows a couple that are zone 6 (and even Nahema which is zone 7). He advises mounding over the rose with mulch or soil in October/November when it starts getting cold, and leaving it there all winter until all danger of frost has passed.

Also foam rose cones are inexpensive, and if you can shelter your rose with windbreaky neighbors--he mentions surrounding his Evelyn rose with boxwoods--that can protect as well. I used to worry about the soil killing the rose, but he mentioned any growth in those late autumn months will get killed off anyway by winter.

While I agree that fragrant roses don't usually last long in the vase, my notable exceptions to this rule are Peter Mayle

Rouge Royal-

Bela' Roma-

All are highly fragrant and last in the vase

I’m growing it for the first time this year... but I have a friend who grows 100+ roses and says red Eden is her longest lasting bloom both on a plant and in the vase.