Thanks for the additional choices to consider, Charles. Terryjean, PEI is certainly very beautiful with unbelievable beaches. If you like Anne of Green Gables you can go to that musical and the new one, Anne and Gilbert. We have lots of red foxes around but no deer to eat roses!

Ruth

Pope John Paul II has been reported to be hardy and disease resistant. I do not have it yet and am looking for an own root version.

Abraham Darby survives the winter without protection but has considerable dieback and doesn't get very big during the summer. Many Austins have died in my garden. Survivors include Evelyn, Tradescant, Jude the Obscure, Graham Thomas and Sharifa Asma. I am particularly impressed with Evelyn, which does just fine on a diet of 12-12-12.

Earthsong and Quietness are excellent choices. I lot of Buck roses have died in my garden and some of the survivors are stunted.

The only Romantica that has survived without protection is Frederic Mistral and it dies back to the ground. Bolero and Comtesse de Province survived last winter with a mound of topsoil.

Thanks Predfern. PJPII looks very interesting though I don't know if I can find it here yet. Have you tried any of the Renaissance series? I have Clair Renaissance and it did very well this year (looks like a HT at first but quickly opens to a cup) but it hasn't faced winter yet.

Ruth

Ruth, I grow quite a few Bucks and they are indeed winter hardy but not cane hardy; they die back to the snow line but by June are quite large again. The Buck Honeysweet has the HT look you're after; coral blossoms and fragrance.
-terry

This is going to be the big issue. It isn't that they will die back, but that they won't rebound. HTs need heat to regrow, and in a cool summer here they don't get it. That's where the Buck roses fall apart. They were developed for an extreme continental climate that gets very hot during the summer.

I have two roses that I've had for thirty years, so they must be hardy even with below zero winters. They are Mr Lincoln and Royal Highness.But all of my roses are cold hardy because I cover them with wood mulch every year and never lose any!

Interesting point about heat, Mad Gallica. Our lot is southfacing on a hillside and is a heat trap relative to the rest of PEI. Hopefully, this will help with the cooler coastal climate. Show roses tempt me but many are bred for hotter/drier climates and it is hard for me to guess how they would handle my particular zone 5. Mr Lincoln, hmmm....tell me more, Dan.

Ruth

Elle always survives the winter here in fine shape. Fragrant Lace does ok. I would recommend the climber Stairway to Heaven...it does well in the winter and blooms constantly.

My hardiest hybred tea is Jadis ( aka Fragrant Memory), handsdown. It has been pumping out beautiful blooms for eight years. Too many others devolve into one cane wonders.

I certainly like the look of Elle, Russell. Jadis I will have to look up, Mysteryrose. Thanks.

Ruth

MOTHER OF PEARL was mentioned in another thread.
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/roses/msg1120441710912.html?29

Here is a link that might be useful: Ridiculously Healthy Roses here in zone 4

To be clear on my comments on rose hardiness here in MN zone4a, almost all of the roses get the crown covered in wood chips for winter protection. Most of the modern Hybrid Tea and Floribunda roses will also get covered with bagged leaves any day now.

Only the Rugoses, Northern Species and some of the Canadian roses are fully cane hardy here.

Regards,

Charles

The people who reported in this survey live within a 50 mile radius of London, Ontario, between Lakes Huron and Erie.
I hope no one will mind my reposting the link.
Steve

Here is a link that might be useful: Rose Survey 2005

Ruthie,
It is good that you are aware of your garden specific conditions. I think these are more important than which HT you try.

Since I planted my first rose bed, we have experienced the full range of Eastern PA winters. Some wet, some dry. Snow cover, no snow at all. Lows below zero or lows in the teens. All of my HT's survive with green cane on them. I do not winter protect in any way.

The important factors:

Beds are on south wall of house where they get reflected sun and warmth from the house.

Roses are protected from the winter wind.

Soil has been added to bed to encourage own roots. The effect has been to create raised beds where most of the root system remains dry during winter.

The age of the plant is important. Roses seem to adapt. As they aged, I have observed much less die back. I don't think it is fair to judge hardiness until a bush has spent 3 years in a permanent home.

Elks, thanks for the survey information. Very useful. Harry, that's encouraging. I will be planting deep and the HTs will be against the house on the south side and should avoid the worst of the winter wind as a result.

Ruth

I live in the Poconos, PA, z5-6. I winterise only newly planted roses and I have no trouble getting them through our winter, including florist roses. Some of them die to the ground but they always come back.

When I gardened in Green Bay, WI, I had a handful of HTs that survived 18 years in that garden. They all had a lot of cane winter kill but because the bud union was down low they all bounced back once the soil warmed. The last couple of winters I decided to not winter protect them. I found the roses had about as much winter kill uncovered as they did when I protected them so I figured, why bother? ;-)

Folklore
Double Delight
Mr. Lincoln
Garden Party
Pristine

Marki and Peggy, this is most encouraging. Hopefully, planting deep, near the house on the south side will give them a fighting chance against winter. Some of the roses you grew, Peggy, are ones I have admired in public gardens.

Ruth

Several mentioned "honeysweet" as hardy hybrid tea, I tried to order that from LongAgoRoses but it's sold out. Agree with Karl Bapst' tip of planting the bud-union or own-root roses 6 inch. below ground for best winter survival.

Elle is the best looking hybrid tea at Chicago Botanical Garden. Does anyone grow Valencia in zone 5, thanks for any info.

Savoy Hotel is a winter hardy HT rose. It’s a tall, well behaved bush. The flowers are soft pink, big. Here is a recent picture from my zone 4-5 backyard.

That's a beautifully grown healthy plant Maryrose!

Adding a couple more pictures from the spring flush. I love this rose.

Blooms are perfect !! Thank you for posting those awesome pics.

MaryRose - what a fabulous rose bush!!! You grow Savoy Hotel to perfection!!! Incredible!!! Palatine is offering this rose...and I soooo wish it had fragrance...I'd buy it!!!

After visiting the Chicago Botanic Garden this afternoon, I agree with Straw that ’Elle’ was the nicest looking mature hybrid tea. The plants had a nice wide shape and were covered with dense, extremely healthy foliage from top to bottom. No bare legs or gaps were evident. Flowers were plentiful, huge and glowing, and the fragrance was superb. I liked it so much I ordered one for next spring!

Hi Chris: Glad to hear that, did you notice any scent on Elle? Thanks. Fall is the best time to see the health of roses. What are some other roses you like besides Elle? Years ago, when I was there I was very impressed with Buck "Hi Neighbor", it was so perfect that I thought it was a plastic rose, I had to touch it to make sure it's real. Alas, no scent.

Ooooh!!!

Straw - Chris mentioned that the fragrance was superb!!

Yes, it was truly superb indeed. ’Elle’ was growing near a thriving group of ’Tiffany’, which is a rose that many admire for its strong and lovely perfume. To my nose, ’Elle’ had exactly the same base perfume as ’Tiffany’, but was twice as strong and had had an extra layer of fruitiness and even a hint of banana candy. It was delicious! Even my rose grinch partner was drawn to ’Elle’ and couldn’t keep his nose out of the blooms.

’Elle’ and ’Tiffany’ were the two standout roses of the day, both eclipsing numerous other hybrid teas, shrubs and Austins. However, when the rose grinch smelled ’Tiffany’, it elicited a resounding “meh” as his only comment before promptly walking away back to ’Elle’. Lol.

Other fragrance standouts of the day were ’The McCartney Rose’ (heady sweet-spicy damask) and ’Moonlight Romantica’ (sweet lemony-fruity perfume) . Both had only mediocre bushes, but TMR was struggling underneath the shade of a tree and MR looked like a young planting. Both received comments of approval from the rose grinch as well, along with repeated sniffs. Both are likely to join my garden next spring along with ’Elle’.

Other fragrance runner-ups were ’Abraham Darby’ (grapefruit), ’Sharifa Asma’ (sweet heady perfume with hints of fruit and sandalwood) and ’Heirloom’ (sweet old rose with lemon).

Elle must really smell amazing for your "Grinch" to be that enamored with it!! I didn't know Elle is one of the power roses for fragrance! I love your fragrance descriptions...I'm so bad at that. I really wish I had the gift of recognizing fragrances. :)

Carol: thanks for pointing that out, I read Chris' 1st report fast during gloomy night so I missed out on "Elle scent is superb."

Chris: THANK YOU for a great write-ups on the scents at Chicago Botanical Garden. I have Moonlight Romantica (1st-year-own-root), love the scent, but it's a water-hog.

I grew Sharifa Asma for 10 years before it died in poor-drainage clay, love its scent, but Princess C.D Monaco is way better in all aspects. I grew Heirloom and miss its scent. Elle is on my wish-list.

:) :) Yeah, I knew you missed that.....easy to do. :) :)

Went to Menards today April 9, 2022, and they have a bunch of bare-root roses (grafted on Dr.Huey) for $5 each.

BlueGirl - died twice in my zone 5a, others in HMF noted that it's NOT cold hardy, it smelled great when I grew it, but blooms lasted only 3 days in the vase.

Dolly Parton - the bareroot stems are very thin, NOT vigorous

Della Reese - wimpy and died last year

First Prize - the stems are SUPER THICK and thorny, saw First Prize in a pot one year, and it was over 4 feet tall. HMF ratings stated not much scent, but it smelled good at the store. Died in my zone 5a, so I won't buy it again. HMF also gave it a bad rating in cold-hardy.

Miss All American Beauty - HMF ratings stated not much scent, died last year.

Belinda's Dream -always the first one to leaf out in the bare-root bin. Bought it few years ago and it was very vigorous, but blooms are boring with a light raspberry scent.

Gold Medal - only one left, so I bought it, folks report its being very heat tolerant. Gold Medal is a Grandiflora, which is more cold-hardy than hybrid tea and floribunda.

Gold glow - wimpy plant with blooms that blew fast. I killed that on purpose.

Pink Peace - only one left, so I bought it. Years ago I grew Pink Peace both as grafted and own-root, and the own-root smelled better. Will bury this cheap-grafted very deep to make it lose Dr.Huey-rootstock, or grow its own-root above.

Lots of Tiffany - I have too many light pinks already. Tiffany is the best rated in HMF on scent, health, vigor, cold-hardy, etc.

Just Joey - the first one to die in my zone 5a winter. NOT winter hardy and prefers hot climate.

Husband saw bigger bare-roots at Sam's club, such as Oklahoma, Tiffany, Double-Delight, etc. for $10 each.

My Double-Delight (grafted for $4) gave lots of bloom for the 1st two years, then it became stingy for the next 6 years. Will dig that up.

Nearby Cantigny rose park replaced their Austin roses (grafted on Dr.Huey) after 2 years. In contrast, my own-root Austins get better (more blooms) as they age. Most of my own-root Austins are decade-old. Grandiflora like Twilight Zone also bloom more as it matures as own-root. Below Twilight Zone is 6th-year own-root in 4 hrs. of morning sun:

Five dollars is a great deal IF you love the rose. If it's just "meh" you'll probably end up ignoring it and then replacing it. I really loved my Pink Peace...and I'm getting one again. So it sounds like you just bought the two...Gold Medal and Pink Peace? I've never tried Gold Medal. Hopefully it'll be great. :) :)

Carol: After some look up, I'm going to return Gold Medal .. saw pics. of it fading really bad. I don't like yellow that fade to white like Julia Child.

I'm keeping the $5 Blue girl I bought since I don't have enough blue color, but I'll return Gold Medal to get a 2nd Pink Peace for $10. It would look nice with two pink Peace on the side of Blue Girl.

The canes of Blue Girl for $5 are HUGE, so it should survive at least 1 winter. My last Blue Girl smelled fantastic, so it's worth $5 if it lasts for 2 years.

Yes, people spend good money on bouquets that won't give you as many blooms as your Blue Girl will for one season. I think returning Gold Medal is a good idea...Pink Peace and Blue Girl will look great together. Maybe you could ship me one of those Blue Girls. LOL

Carol: I would love to ship those bare-roots to you since they are sold so cheap at $5 each !!

Lagerfeld is better than Blue Girl since Lagerfeld doesn't have "exposed stamens" to trigger allergies like Blue Girl. Plus Lagerfeld lasts longer in the vase, with a more stable scent. Both are low-thorn. Lagerfeld is known to root easily, so I really should try to root Lagerfeld. It was bred back in 1986. My Lagerfeld is 7th-year own-root, and its root got chopped off when I moved it to kill the invasive mints.

Below pic. is 1 month-old Lagerfeld bought from Roses Unlimited as own-root. I should had bought another one, I can stick my nose into its bloom 24/7, pure heaven. It likes cold weather and bloomed until snow came in late fall:

Below left is Lagerfeld, and right is Tchaikosky. I would love to get 2nd plants of both !!

Do NOT spring for Francis Meilland. Beautiful, but you'll be heartbroken eventually.

Yeah, my Francis Meilland died. I have to go back to covering my roses in the winter in the garage.

We're (noon) at -20C/-4F with windchill today. Snow too. All week is going to be cold. Sigh.

Yes, I would get those two roses in a heartbeat!! :) :) Beautiful!

Seconding (or eightiething) Quietness. Tip-hardy in zone 5b for me. Francis Meilland has lost entire canes on me. Absolutely gorgeous rose but it just doesn't like it here.

Pink Peace does well for me, but the hardiest by far has been All My Loving. PJPII did well, too but needs a couple more seasons to say if it is very hardy.

Funny, I did get Blue Girl to live and do well for a number of years while some others did very poorly (expensive annuals!)

I also agree that roses will get hardier with age. If you can get multi year canes and as they turn woody, I believe that helps with hardiness. Much like thick bark on an old tree

L Clark - yes, that sounds reasonable. :)

I find that cheap bare-roots have a better chance of winter-survival if PLANTED AFTER MOTHER'S DAY like mid-May to avoid frost. Grafted-on-Dr.Huey bare-roots get stunt easily by freezing temp. One year I bought an expensive Young Lycidas (on Dr.Huey rootstock from Regan Nursery) and planted it mid-May. Too bad that it snowed that week and Young Lycidas got stunt by the freezing temp.

Same with Pink Peace and Blue Girl which I planted this mid-April. Then the temp dipped down to 20 F in mid-April and stunt both bare-roots.

This week May 12 I planted 3 cheap bare-roots bought for $5 each (Oklahoma, Pink Peace, and Fragrant Cloud) ... all 3 bare-roots sprouted plenty of canes & leaves, plus plenty of roots via sitting inside a cozy store.

20 years ago I planted annuals too early before Mother's Day, and they got stunt & wimpy for the rest of the year .. roses are just as sensitive to cold weather as annuals.

The instruction from Antique Rose Emporium says to WINTER PROTECT own-root if the temp is below 28 F. Grafted on Dr.Huey is even more sensitive to cold temp.

both my new ambridge roses have succumbed and now the weather is in the 80s. My bareroot sharifa asma is trucking along though. Not sure why sharifa is so much more hardy.

Sharifa with its crinkled leaves has Rugosa heritage and very winter hardy. My own-root Sharifa lived for 10 years until I accidentally killed it with too much salty chicken manure. Rugosa hates the salt in fertilizer. I should had stuck to zero-salt alfalfa meal only.

ohhh I'll be sure to avoid fertilizing sharifa asma then :) does it cut well? I don't ever take cuttings from my rugosas so I'd imagine sharifa asma doesn't last long in the vase....but bolero does and sharifa is one of bolero's parents

My Sharifa Asma was so tiny as own-root but I cut it for the vase anyway (scent is fabulous). It rooted easily but the stem is too thin to survive my winter. Two people told me that Sharifa Asma is best as grafted.

any new thoughts on cold hardy HTs?

Grandifloras are more hardy than hybrid tea as own-root. Chamblee's Nursery in TX used to classify floribunda as hardy to zone 6, grandifloras are hardy to zone 5, and hybrid tea varies vastly in hardiness.

My grandiflora and 5th-year own root About Face is 6 feet tall as of today 9/12/22:

Hybrid tea Veteran's Honor is very hardy, it's a 6th-year own root. I moved it 4 times due to lack of sun and poor drainage, but it's always healthy. It almost died a few times thanks to moving. Pic. taken August 2022:

Own-root Mirandy is VERY hardy with its long root. I regret killing this 4th-year own root per my daughter's request (it's too thorny for her when she was in kindergarten). When I dug it up, the root was at least 1 foot long, despite being next to a tree. My husband loved its color and long-lasting in the vase.

Mirandy has THE BEST SCENT among fragrant red roses that I grow (Barcelona, Munstead Wood, Rouge Royal, The Dark Lady, Tess of d'Ubervilles, Firefighter). I might order it from Roses Unlimited again since I miss its fabulous scent and health. Never see blackspots on Mirandy. It did so well despite bad and dry soil (next to a tree), so I want to give it a better chance.