Goodmorning Everybody ! :) I heard from my swappers last night...:))) Mariann I have a couple of surprizes for you...We love putting surprizes in our boxes Regina started it.. Chell you are so creative and your writing is so much fun to read... I bet the boys loved playing pirate.. I can see their smiling faces now...What a great idea to make a hideout.. They will always remeber their hideout mom made for them... Norma I havent traded with you but I am sure you went way above in sending her nice cuttings..I seen pics of what you send...They are awesome boxes..:)) Please dont be sad..:)) Regina howdy :) I am so sorry about Mark having to have surgery and the heart condition would just send me into heaven.. Wow I am so glad to read it all went well...Shooo My heart sank for a minute...He will be all healed for college this fall..:)) You empty nester dont go through what I went through...Stay busy and call them alot... I miss my kids so much it hurts sometimes... Dogs are okay but they cant replace our true babies...I love reading about chell and her boys... It makes me smile so much... Frances lol You poor gardener..ahhah You need a break from mother nature..Really..:)) Oh big snakes yucky... I would be screaming... I love chippies...They are so cute...Havent had many around with a cat now...Kiki has brought home two gardener snakes...He was very proud of himself... Yesterday I was getting ready to go out and play in the dirt...The crows or blackbirds were screaming...It just like a scene in the movie the "birds"... It creeped me out really bad...I couldnt see what they were yelling at.. I watched tv...Than got bored and went coleus shopping..lol The master gardener sale for the next county over is tommorow... I cant wait to see what they are going to be offering..I have never been to this one...Oh I almost forgot..I heard from the master gardener I met...Looks like we are building another gh..lol She wants to do it closer to fall since everyone is busy with their gardens...I am glad we could help her..They are a pain to build.. well I gabbed enough lol must be the strong coffee and I got a lot of sleep...:)) Have a good day everybody..Barb

Florida is a state as varied as it's residents. In the southern part, The Keys, you'll find the southernmost point in the U.S. It was also the home of Ernest Hemingway. You can tour his home and see the 5-toed cats (plenty of them), that have run of the place. The Keys are very laid back and relaxed. Maybe a little too much for some. Moving north are the Everglades, where I saw the biggest grasshopper I'd ever seen in my life. It was huge! Miami used to be "the" place for winter visitors, but it got too big, I think. Fort Myers, on the Gulf side is home to tons of winter visitors, including my DSis. Also on that coast is Sanibel Island, Long Boat Key, Anna Maria Island (my favorite) and Sarasota, winter home of Ringling Bros. Barnum and Bailey Circus. The east coast from Miami north the Cape Kennedy is pretty posh and called the Gold Coast, I believe. Haven't been there for years. Of course, there's NASA and the space shuttles launch. We can see them from our yard once they are in the air. It always gives me chills and I have to say a quick prayer to keep them safe. Of course, there's Disney World, too--and Epcot--and a lot of other stuff they've added. The middle of the state is mainly agriculture--strawberries, tomatoes, sweet corn and lots of citrus. It's not the prettiest area of the state, but it is our breadbasket and we're pretty darned proud of it. We also grow cane and make a good amount of sugar here. North of that is my area, and we're known as horse country. We have many huge horse farms surrounding our town and I like looking at the little foals, wondering if they'll be the next Triple Crown winner. Lots of the horses in the Kentucky Derby this year were either born/broken/trained here or just broken/trained. It's beautiful country with rolling hills and green, green grass. North and east of here is St. Augustine where DeSoto thought he found the fountain of youth. Been there, drank the water and I can tell you he was sooooo wrong! Interesting city with lots to see and do. Daytona Beach is home of NASCAR, but mostly known for "Bike Week", when thousands of motorcycles descend on the city and have a great time. The panhandle is a joy all in it's own. Pristine beaches and the whitest, silkiest sand you could ever walk on. It's just beautiful to drive across the top part of the state on US 98. It must be what "old" Florida was like. Tallahassee, also in the panhandle, is our capital and is a pretty town with a breath-taking view as you go down Monroe St. (I think) and see the Capitol straight ahead. There is so much more to Florida than I've written here. I moved here 29 years ago and never looked back. I don't know anyone famous from here except KC and the Sunshine Band and Credence Clearwater Revival--Oh and Sister Hazel. But in all probability, there weren't born here!! :-)

· Posted by: hnwillis z8 SC (My Page) on Thu, Nov 29, 01 at 15:22 Ya'll gotta be some of the funniest people. After going through the ordeal of many a gardenia suicides, I decided it was time to plant them outside (great humidity and heat-Z8 SC). I hate to say this but two years ago I planted 2 gardenia plants on the northwest side of my house. They have been doing just fine. They are just at 2-3 feet tall. I have pruned them together this past sprng into a low hedge next to my white picket fence. I have planted the trimmings amongst a groundcover of Gerbera Daisies in a 24 inch plastic pot that I also planted a 10 ft crooked willow tree on the southside of my house. I also put some trimmings into small pots with cheap Wal-Mart garden soil. To my surprise, they have taken root and are growing like crazy. I put one particular cutting into a pot by itself to be able to bring in the house. I left it outside all spring and summer (it rained constantly when I first planted them). This one stayed in 5 inches of water/dirt for 2 months. I have brought the sole potted plant into my sunroom and placed it inside a miniture greenhouse. I doesn't seem to be growing like it did outside. I'm really thinking that it likes to be outdoors in humidity, heat and southern exposure. Go figure? So from 1 pruning of two plants I have successfully propagated 10+ little ones. I can't wait until they bloom. Also, the main idea for planting them outside is that my neighbor has a 10 ft tall, 7 ft wide "gardenia bush" that is heavenly when it blooms. I have taken pictures of it because people don't believe me. I know she doesn't do anything special to any of her plants. One thing we do have in common is acidic clay soil which our azaleas and camellias seem to thrive on. · Posted by: bedou z10 Ft. L. Fl (My Page) on Fri, Dec 7, 01 at 1:15 Its 1:09 in the morning. My laughter must have woken my husband up, so I suppose I should put the kettle on! From a nude plot of land in Ft. Lauderdale, I have tried to fill it up with fragrant choices. Yes, Gardenia included. Its yellow leaves tend to give me a good contrast against all those green ones that are flourishing. Alas, they tend to fall off, so I just use them as mulch where they land. Time to find something else! I certainly shall not spend time agonizing over it, from what you have all said. Oh well, I had such high hopes!!! Joanmary · Posted by: fpogoda 5 N NJ (My Page) on Mon, Dec 17, 01 at 12:21 Just wanted to be sure regarding the indoor gardenia temp. issue: is the optimum temperature 70 degrees during the day, then 55 degrees at night? Thanks · Posted by: yugoslava 6 ) on Sat, Dec 29, 01 at 20:56 I have been fairly successful with azaleas and rhododendrons and wonder if it would be possible to keep gardenia dormant over winter and bring it out in spring, plant it among rhodos and leave it until it gets cold. I have admired gardenias from afar for the longest time, but I knew indoor conditions in the winter were not the best, so I have never had one to call my own. Would it be possible to keep gardenia cool over winter as I do with my fig tree and brugmansia? The scent is absolutely intoxicating! One word about people who live in warm or coastal areas. You have no trouble growing tropical plants which we can only see when we take tropical vacations for which we have to pay dearly. I live in Great Lakes Region with short seasons but we all dream of exotic plants growing luxuriantly indoors. Which is why we fret and fuss endlessly. · Posted by: Jenn z9/19 SoCal (My Page) on Tue, Jan 8, 02 at 10:16 This has to be the funniest thread I've ever read at the GardenWeb. I laughed so hard I could hardly talk and had tears in my eyes!! I printed out the whole thread to share with other pour souls who have tried to grow Gardenias according to all the best recommendations, only to watch them wither away. We have a Gardenia growing on a slight slope in alkaline clay soil under a Japanese Black Pine tree. It gets mid-to-late sun. It gets watered whenever we run the lawn sprinklers. It isn't the most prolific plant we grow, but at least it's alive and produces some blooms for us each year. The success is probably due to the fact that my husband is the one who cares for it, and he is not a by-the-book gardener... he just waters whenever he thinks the lawn needs water, feeds it when he remembers (I think the last time was about 2 years ago), etc. LOL!!! · Posted by: Rosalie 5-6 salt lake (My Page) on Wed, Jan 9, 02 at 11:30 this thread is hilarious! and now famous -- a link to it is posted at the garden party forum, so some of us have wandered over to check out your battles -- i believe i will stick with xeric types -- no chicken dances for me -- thanks for the laughs! and good luck to all -- rosalie · Posted by: ccl38 8A Savannah, GA (My Page) on Thu, Jan 17, 02 at 15:59 I too have had trouble with vetchii. Mine was so large and so heavy with blooms I decided to prune it. We couldn't get past it down the walk. Once prunned it went into a decline and it has never been the same. I have another variety that I rooted about three years ago from a large bush growing at the edge of the swamp near where I work. It is mostly in shade, never gets watered and would probably measure 5 feet, and it has those huge saucer size blossoms and smells wonderful. I don't shake a chicken so I guess I must have held my mouth right when I planted it. They are my favorite plant. For me it is a pass along plant. I root them all summer and give them to anyone who comes along and wants one. · Posted by: Joanmary_z10 z10 Ft. L. Fl. (My Page) on Thu, Jan 17, 02 at 19:23 cc 138 you must have 'the magic touch'Well done, and I say that with honest envy. The question is, are you ready, willing and able to produce 75-+ rooted cuttings from a 'proven' specimen with the right karma, one for each of the above postings, to restore our faith in this plant and to bring aid and comfort to all of us who have been brought down by this picky, picky plant? lol!!! Joanmary · Posted by: Lily 5 IL (My Page) on Fri, Jan 18, 02 at 21:16 I got a Gardenia "Veitchii" last January as a gift, loaded with buds. Looking for culture info I found this thread. Aftering reading everyone's experience, I thought I was going to kill it for sure. I held my breath when I was anywhere near it. I misted it daily and then decided not to mist after my hard water left ugly mineral stains on the leaves. More then half of the buds dropped and it refused to bloom indoor! It got a lot of half yellowed leaves before I dragged it outside in late Spring. It thrived outside and bloomed! In the mean time I got hooked on orchids. I started using the leftover orchid water (rain water with 1/4 strenth of fertilizer and a drop of Superthrive/per gallon) to water the gardenia. It's been growing like crazy! Now it's back in the house in front of my south facing window, and in bloom! It's in a 12" plastic pot and about 2 feet tall. Maybe it's the rain water or the superthrive, but there is definitely hope for all gardenia lovers! · Posted by: Jenn z9/19 SoCal (My Page) on Sun, Jan 20, 02 at 13:40 So that's the trick... "water with leftover orchid water". Why don't the gardening books say that?!? LOL! · Posted by: Lali z9, 18, So Cal (My Page) on Mon, Jan 21, 02 at 15:16 I can't believe how long this topic has gone on for. It is sooo hilarious! Anyway, I'm trying my first attempt to grow gardenias. I put them in the backyard (northern exposure) with ferns and azaleas, so I'm hoping they will be ok. Now that I've read this post, I'm really really really skeptical that they will bloom or even live by my hand. Thanks for the laugh! Lali · Posted by: freesias Z9 ) on Tue, Feb 19, 02 at 23:35 Oh My GOD! I just planted THREE 1 gal. 'Veitchii' gardenias in my front yard mixed border. I have a feeling, my are gonna DIE on me. I am definitely not touching these guys! Will water once every couple of weeks. THAT'S IT!!!! · Posted by: susan_CA z9 CA ) on Sun, Feb 24, 02 at 16:05 What a great thread! Gardenia culture is such a thrill of success/agony of defeat experience. Anticipating an unknown failure rate, I bought 6 'Veitchii'! The two planted directly under a tree (where I wanted to sit) and northern foundation exposure died. The two planted in eastern foundation exposure with shade mid-day on bloom copiously all summer. The two planted in western foundation exposure, where light tree shade relieves afternoon heat after 4pm do almost as well. All get composted manure in early spring, pine needle mulch, half-strength chelated minerals whenever leaves begin to pale or MirAcid if I think of it, water from sprinkler system early a.m. (including on leaves) daily in summer in the hot, dry central valley, and have FAST drainage. The two that died were in locations with slower drainage and more shade. The only year I had some bud drop was the year we had a late, wet spring, but they bloomed fine all summer. I have seen specimens in full sun in the central valley; they bloom well, but leaves & blossoms show sunburn damage. So I'm going with the sun/shade, wet/dry, feed/not theory. · Posted by: jxnphx Zn9 AZ (My Page) on Fri, Mar 8, 02 at 0:42 Oh my, oh my! The woman at the nursery said I could have an indoor gardenia in my east-window-garden (morning sun, high level of light the rest of the day), but it sounds like she forgot to tell me I'd need to install a swamp for it, as well. I certainly have plenty of heat for it, here on the low desert. I may be joining the ranks of the guilty gardenia group: I'm not likely to "mist" the miserable thing, nor am I likely to change my habits in on-going care (I am sadly irregular about watering and feeding my only other plant--a low-maintenance Madagascar Palm--dracena). I prepared the soil well enough though (a standard potting soil mixed with half-again as much peat moss), I placed the plant "high" in the middle of the pot, added a layer of peat moss on the top, and covered it all with some additional organic mulch, watered it in with an "acid" feeding, and set it above a large, relatively deep saucer with plenty of water for evaporation. I may have misunderstood the nursery lady's comment about the roots, though, because I removed a great deal of the soil from the root ball and treated the roots with hormone before placing it in the new pot and soil mix. I read in the messages above that this plant may not have liked that messing about with its roots. I believe I'll acquire one of those devices that gives a reading of the humidity, to see just how dry my window garden area really is. We'll see what happens. While I may be capable of sustaining this thing's life for a short while, after reading all of this, I'm not planning on much success with it. I tend to move on to other projects, and I'm afraid the poor thing will have to shift for itself more than it is constitutionally capable. Of course, reading about the success of those who largely ignored their gardenia gives me some hope. That's more my style. At least I have a good excuse for turning the AC down to 70 starting in April. I just don't think the local power usage police are going to understand it when I tell them that my astronomical power draw is necessary for the health of a plant. This is going to be expensive emotionally and monetarily. Who would have thought a trip to the nursery would result in such bondage? · Posted by: Joanmary_z10 z10 Ft. L. Fl. (My Page) on Fri, Mar 8, 02 at 13:16 Oh, what a wonderful laugh this has been! My poor old gardenia is there in Florida, with no one to care for it, depending on the sprinkler system to 'do its thing' and I have no clue what is happening to it. However I have my dark moments when I can see the Christmas lights decorating its bare twigs come December! Taking it that I will be using its twigs as mulch sometime soon, I have bought as a replacement, the African Gardenia. Now I wonder if this is in the same category? Here's to Gardenias who can take neglect!! · Posted by: jxnphx Zn9 AZ (My Page) on Sat, Mar 9, 02 at 15:31 I discussed my newly acquired gardenia issue with my elder sister who, smirking, told me it would probably do me good to have something to worry about. I can only think she was being complimentary about my faultless children and long-ago departed harpy of a wife. She herself has a half-dozen off-spring who provide her with plenty of heart-rending despair. Just in case she was being a smart-ass though, I bought my plant an ultrasonic humidifier which pumps 2.6 gallons of water vapor into the air each day, and I hurried to the used book store and increased my holdings in James Lee Burke (setting: southern Louisiana). I suppose I could have picked up some Faulker, as well, but he's so damned hard to read. I can't stand Tennessee Williams. I am thinking that a few dark and decadent thought-waves might make the gardenia feel a little more at home here in the bright, parched protestant desert southwest. Although it's only been a couple of days, I'm sure it's looking a little better than when I brought it home from the nursery; but just the same, I'm going to keep my eye on a new leaf that is looking a little yellowish. I don't want my dear sister to have the last laugh. · Posted by: BarbC coastal SC (My Page) on Fri, Apr 12, 02 at 15:53 LOL - I have tears rolling down my face and flooding the den. I have 2 unknown variety gardenias that I bought at HD 4 years ago. Since then, I have done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to them and yet they thrive. They survived the great flood of '99 (were under 6 FEET of nasty swamp/river water and were still green 3 months later when the water finally went away) They were only 1ft tall at the time, so literally had 5ft of nasty black water on top of them. I even had to pick dried toilet paper off them, as the flood had taken the contents of 1000 septic tanks along its path. Those two gardenias and the roses were the only plants to survive that mess. Anyway, once I could finally walk through my yard again (without sinking up to my eyeballs in slimy mud) I dug those suckers up and moved them to my new (dry) house (roses too). They are still there and doing beautifully in full southern afternoon sun. I do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING special to them. I don't even ater then during droughts. Maybe that's the secret? The guy across the street has a couple and he also does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to his and his are even nicer than mine. Perhaps we are killing these plants with kindness? Maybe what they really want is to just be left alone?

I think you can’t go wrong with a second Evelyn, Ingrid. As I said before, she loves our dry heat. I didn’t catch up on this thread until now, or I would have reminded you that my Louise Odier is probably Grandmother’s Hat. ( Add me to the list of people not feeling well, lately.) I’m still not 100% sure who she is, but she’s certainly a winner here. I purchased her as Louise Odier from RVR. I was going to suggest you might order Louise Odier from RVR, and see what happens, but they deal mainly in band size roses. Now that I have more Bourbon roses, I’m convinced mine isn’t Louise Odier. Her growth habit is more upright, instead of cascading once the canes become longer. She’s also FAR cleaner, foliage wise than my other Bourbons. Isn't Daisy’s climate similar to ours? Perhaps you could have a look at her roses to give you some ideas. I bought the DA ‘Perdita’ after seeing hers do so well. Unfortunately I thought I was doing Perdita a favor by planting her in partial shade, apparently Perdita needs far more sun than many DA’s, even in So CA. She hasn’t bloomed at all since I planted her out. That means I’ll have to move her. As Roselady said, Princess Charlene de Monaco grows to at LEAST 8F high here. I do remember Cori Ann saying hers needed extra water, and would appreciate some PM shade. My two PCDM’s receive full sun, but my soil is heavy, rich clay, quite different from yours. For the past two years, my very favorite nursery has had lots of grafted PCDM’s in 3? 5? gallon containers at exactly this time of year. If you’re considering PCDM at all, I’d suggest buying her locally, so you’d get a large plant to start with. The nursery is Walter Andersen in Poway. They also carry a large assortment of David Austins. If you’re both up to it, have a look at Walter Andersen’s. They carry many different roses, and also many native and rabbit resistant plants. Lisa